Author Topic: Louis Theroux: The Night In Question.  (Read 1000 times)

Moribunderast

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Louis Theroux: The Night In Question.
« on: March 06, 2019, 02:25:35 AM »
The latest Louis documentary that aired the other night. A challenging watch, at times. At first I was wary that he seemed to be giving an awful lot of time to accused rapists and not much to alleged victims but it evened out towards the end and offered an interesting look into the system. Having watched so many documentaries and read so many articles about the epidemic of assault on college campuses, it's hard not to feel like the system in place is necessary, whilst also being concerned that it could harm innocent people if they are accused.

SPOILERS BELOW



I immediately clocked Saif as being duplicitous and cunning. Just something "off" and although I think the fella who used to be his confidante was also a bit gross, it seemed there was some truth to those revelations. If anything, seeing that those two had been friends just gave me a feeling of "Yeah, well, what would I expect of people belonging to a group because they've been accused of rape?"

Fucking howled at Saif's reactions when he realised Louis was going to hold his feet to the fire a bit. Him refusing to link the vomiting to alcohol intake and bringing up competing religions when confronted with multiple witnesses who said the victim was visibly drunk... so nice to see his mask slip, however briefly. That fucker is ice cold.

Saif's lawyer came across pretty icky as well, I thought.

I had no idea there was a new Louis doc coming and instinctively joked "What fun topic will this be?" and then laughed aloud when his opening monologue revealed it. I like these films and find them interesting but what I'd give for a brief return to Weird Weekends. Stop bumming me out, man.

What did ye make of it? Think he went into the topic of fairness to the accused deeply enough? Gave enough consideration to victims?

Re: Louis Theroux: The Night In Question.
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2019, 02:44:48 AM »
I thought Saif seemed safe at first. After his odd mate spilled the beans on the forced threesome, snapchat stuff and the porn acquisition Saif became creep city. Everything he said from then on became the words of a manipulative sociopath.

When Louis meets him and his lawyer before they go into the university hearing, Saif says something like (can't recall exactly), "you've got fight for what's right" and his eyes narrow as he looks at Louis. Chills down the goddamned spine. 

Scariest character transition of the year so far for me.

Re: Louis Theroux: The Night In Question.
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2019, 12:39:11 PM »
I immediately clocked Saif as being duplicitous and cunning. Just something "off" and although I think the fella who used to be his confidante was also a bit gross, it seemed there was some truth to those revelations. If anything, seeing that those two had been friends just gave me a feeling of "Yeah, well, what would I expect of people belonging to a group because they've been accused of rape?"

Yes, Saif's part of his first interview with Louis definitely had a well-rehearsed feel about it, and it seemed so fake the way he started crying that I let slip a triumphant "Called it!" to no-one in particular at the reveal of him bragging about it in texts to the confidante later on.

Malcy

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Re: Louis Theroux: The Night In Question.
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2019, 12:47:25 PM »
I thought Saif and the woman who chewed her coffee were both dodgy from the off. I thought both were lying through their teeth. I enjoyed it but like said above I'd love a return of Weird Weekends or even for him to make docs about the UK rather than America all the bastard time.

Clownbaby

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Re: Louis Theroux: The Night In Question.
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2019, 01:17:18 PM »
I found it very unsettling, regardless of whether any of the guys who detailed their version of events were guilty of rape or not, how blankly they explained what they were doing/not doing in the bedroom at the time. Showing no hint of embarrassment or hesitation while clinically explaining how you had a lass deep throat you and it made her puke everywhere has to be a red flag of some kind.

Just his strange manner alone, undebatable rapist or not, was very unpleasant and if he's not a rapist then he's still a bit of a weird bastard. Before he went into the court, when he turned to Louis and said "you got to fight for what's right", in probably the most unconvincing way ever, got a laugh from me for some reason.

Re: Louis Theroux: The Night In Question.
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2019, 01:38:19 PM »
I’m not convinced by this doc at all. I’ve got a fundamental issue with Louis, especially after that second Savile doc and I’m not sure I’m impartial enough but I found this quite troubling and exploitative on a number of levels.

I conceed that there is a documentary to be made about section 9 and the valid legal discussion about whether rape is a rape if there is not enough evidence that would otherwise get a conviction in a court. But, for me the tone of program, namely that there  are victims on both sides but I have  interviewed a few people (on camera, for his TV program, that he gets paid shit loads for to appear like the good guy) he concludes that PROBABLY section 9 is a GOOD thing and Betsy Davos and Trump are BAD things. That took an hour.

Firstly, given the equal weighting to the men and women in the show suggests the issue is equally weighted; no mention of unreported and unconvicted rape statistics. Isn’t it something like 10% of 10% or lower? And no discussion of the broader culture within frats, campus and society that leads to these problems.

For me, the docs are less about getting to heart of an issue and more about making Louis look good and we fall for it every time.

Clownbaby

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Re: Louis Theroux: The Night In Question.
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2019, 01:48:11 PM »
Don't disagree with you on this one. I'm finding with each new Louis documentary they're getting less and less interesting. The doc didn't really get deep enough to reveal anything that probably wasn't obvious anyway. At least with the more humour-based early stuff he did, there was an attempt to sneakily tease more out of the people he talked to by coming across as curious rather than him just being a clinical, righteous questioner who has a very fixed and obvious moral standpoint from the start that, more often than not, means the interviewees, if they know they're not going to make the moral grade, become defensive to the point where they don't really reveal anything because they feel like they can't in his company.

Re: Louis Theroux: The Night In Question.
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2019, 01:50:10 PM »
Whilst I'm not going to claim this was the best documentary that could have been made about this, there was a whole section about a woman who was raped in a frat house and about the culture around that.

I did have a think about stats, for example the 'lying woman' myth was brought up several times. Isn't the real stat that a man is more likely to be raped by a man that be falsely accused of rape by a woman. Sure I've read that somewhere.

The trouble is, stats tell you nothing about individual real cases.

Re: Louis Theroux: The Night In Question.
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2019, 02:55:09 PM »
I've seen a bit of Harry Potter with rifftrax on but am not well versed. What does "Snape to my Dumbledore" mean?

Whilst I'm not going to claim this was the best documentary that could have been made about this


Louis made a list of his top ten docs years back on his site I think. One of them was a documentary about a US fraternity party where a hired dancer was raped. I can't remember the name of it...what's unique about it is that the disturbing events of the night were filmed on camera by the students and that footage is used in the doc. I did wonder how they got permission to use that video.


Quote
I enjoyed it but like said above I'd love a return of Weird Weekends or even for him to make docs about the UK

See, I prefer it when the subject matter is in another land. There's a sort of buffer effect. The two docs set in the UK about alcoholism and bulimia were seriously depressing. Some of those people and their situations stay with you for quite a while.  I do hope he finally makes that stand-up comedy doc that's been talking about for quite a while*.


*(edit: that double use of "quite a while" looks pretty weird, doesn't it?)

 
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 03:36:42 PM by rasta-spouse »

St_Eddie

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Re: Louis Theroux: The Night In Question.
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2019, 07:17:19 PM »
Edit glitch removal.

Re: Louis Theroux: The Night In Question.
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2019, 07:28:27 PM »
I thought this was bad documentary. Not just missing the mark, but bad, cynical and a bit dangerous.

It was framed as being about Title IX, but it wasn't really. What did we learn about Title IX? Fuck all, except for the repeated question over university proceedings involving Title IX require a "lesser standard of evidence". Which is bullshit, because balance of probability is the standard of evidence used in all sorts of disciplinaries, tribunals and courts. Presenting it as unique to rape is at best ignorant and poorly researched. (And I gather from the use of language in the programme, despite Louis not making it explicit, that under the Title IX proceedings in question the men were found culpable for misconduct, not guilty of rape, in which case it's not even the same charge). After an hour long programme about Title IX, I don't know what Title IX is, why it's called that, or what it actually means. Someone insinuated it was introduced by the Obama administration (it wasn't).

So that leaves us with the people, and fair enough Louis' documentaries are always about people. But this was transparently an attempt to ape the show trial nature of those 'investigative' murder documentaries that have been popular in recent years. I find that horrible in itself, asking the viewer to Gogglebox at the TV "Ooh, I bet he did it!" "No, I don't think he did!" "Aaaah, told you!" Because if he did do it, there's someone at home – who refused to take part – having a documentary made about their rapist, where half of the programme is presenting them as a liar and their rapist as a victim just so it can do a rug pull at the half way mark. And Louis' voice over has never been more patronising. "I took a moment to reflect about how his cold dead eyes supported my twist revelation that he was a wrong'un." Fuck off.

I've been increasingly wary of Louis over the past few years, but this has pushed me over the line.

BlodwynPig

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Re: Louis Theroux: The Night In Question.
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2019, 01:25:02 AM »
I've seen a bit of Harry Potter with rifftrax on but am not well versed. What does "Snape to my Dumbledore" mean?

Louis made a list of his top ten docs years back on his site I think. One of them was a documentary about a US fraternity party where a hired dancer was raped. I can't remember the name of it...what's unique about it is that the disturbing events of the night were filmed on camera by the students and that footage is used in the doc. I did wonder how they got permission to use that video.

Banned apparently (unsurprisingly)
https://brobible.com/college/article/todd-phillips-unaired-documentary-frat-house/

Twed

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Re: Louis Theroux: The Night In Question.
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2019, 04:16:26 AM »
So that leaves us with the people, and fair enough Louis' documentaries are always about people. But this was transparently an attempt to ape the show trial nature of those 'investigative' murder documentaries that have been popular in recent years. I find that horrible in itself, asking the viewer to Gogglebox at the TV "Ooh, I bet he did it!" "No, I don't think he did!" "Aaaah, told you!" Because if he did do it, there's someone at home – who refused to take part – having a documentary made about their rapist, where half of the programme is presenting them as a liar and their rapist as a victim just so it can do a rug pull at the half way mark. And Louis' voice over has never been more patronising. "I took a moment to reflect about how his cold dead eyes supported my twist revelation that he was a wrong'un." Fuck off.

I've been increasingly wary of Louis over the past few years, but this has pushed me over the line.
Thank you for writing this. I've had thoughts like this on my mind (about Theroux, about profiteering TV shows turning grim things into entertainment and even becoming influential in the legal system itself) for a while and haven't been able to exorcise them. Reading this was therapeutic.