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Midsommar

Started by St_Eddie, March 06, 2019, 03:54:42 PM

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St_Eddie

Quote from: amputeeporn on July 07, 2019, 02:03:00 AM
No one thinks this is weirdly anti-european then?

Not a film that's quite afraid of travel and pits 'foreigners' as cultish murderers? One that's fairly conservative in its presentation of other cultures?

I mean, we're supposed to be afraid of what here, Sweden?

I won't suggest how problematic this film's pessimism would be when set in, say, Africa, but my gf is Swedish and I must admit it queers it a bit for me...

I think that's a perfectly valid criticism.  The film does seem to trade somewhat in xenophobia.  Whether or not it's critiquing xenophobic attitudes or embracing them wholeheartedly is another matter entirely, but I suspect that the pendulum swings more towards the latter, unfortunately.

Schnapple

#31
I think it trades in both. On one hand, the majority of the American visitors are portrayed as entitled and foolhardy. On the other, yes it portrays otherness and weird practises, but then, it's a horror movie rooted in the exploitation tradition. So I suppose it's to be seen in the context of the genre.

Yes, it would be a different story if it was set in Africa, but it's not, it's set in Sweden. As a point of comparison, I would not be fussed if Ari Aster had set it in Somerset. In fact, he could have cast Jethro as one of the elders.

Anyway, I liked this enough, but am now keen to see Aster shift away from horror, or at least the lamb to the slaughter narrative. The visual portrayal of being on shrooms and other hallucinogens in nature was phenomenal(ly accurate, for once), some of the best and most tasteful visual effects I've seen in film.

Chriddof

I have noticed, though, that there is this weird suspicion of Sweden in US news media. A lot of Americans seem to have an impression of the country being some sort of sinister communist state or something, where you aren't allowed to say that immigrants are evil under pain of death. (A suspicion shared, it seems, by BBC News judging from a clip of Newsnight I saw on Youtube - you can imagine the comments. And the thumbnail actually had the words "GOOD SWEDEN BAD SWEDEN" in it.)

As for the movie, the first trailer I saw for it completely lost me early on when we hear a snippet of conversation that goes something like:

"What time is it?"
"It's 9PM."
"BUT IT'S STILL LIGHT OUTSIDE"
(crash of ominous music, slide that says "FROM THE DIRECTOR OF" etc etc)

Admittedly that's most likely the fault of the trailer and is presented differently in the movie, but I still laughed out loud.

Schnapple

Quote from: Chriddof on July 07, 2019, 01:52:22 PM
"What time is it?"
"It's 9PM."
"BUT IT'S STILL LIGHT OUTSIDE"
(crash of ominous music, slide that says "FROM THE DIRECTOR OF" etc etc)

Admittedly that's most likely the fault of the trailer and is presented differently in the movie, but I still laughed out loud.

Ha, yes, I laughed at that too. In the film, as you guessed, the character in question is freaking out from taking an initial heavy dose of mushrooms and revealing his true nature as a weird control freak.

fatguyranting

I would have loved it if it wasn't way too long. Could have easily cut 20-30 minutes.

Billy

Saw this today, and during the scene with the two old people standing over the cliff, two kids who looked about ten years old casually walked into the screen, walked up the stairs, looked a bit confused, and left - luckily just before the gory moment happened. Probably had tickets for Spiderman and went in the wrong screen.

Glad they didn't stay or they'd be sitting there thinking the new phase of Marvel films has got really fucking dark.

Quote from: Puce Moment on July 04, 2019, 02:38:18 PM
This came out in some cinemas yesterday - anyone catch it?

From what I can see, it appears to have polarised audiences in a similar way to his first effort. Nice ideas, badly executed - laughable moments that are probably not meant to be funny.

I think I will give this a go today but I know it will annoy the fuck out of me.
This kind of ruined it, I mean it was a Saturday night screening in Ellesmere Port filled with the worst people expecting a jump scare horror and talking all through the film but...
Some of it was starting to become unnerving for me but I was taken out of it by everyone laughing and making 'funny' comments out loud (especially the old naked ladies bits) when I dont think it was meant to be funny

beanheadmcginty

It's definitely meant to be funny, the director himself has said he sees it as a "dark comedy". I laughed at quite a few bits. The bum push really had me giggling.

phantom_power

Quote from: amputeeporn on July 07, 2019, 02:03:00 AM
No one thinks this is weirdly anti-european then?

Not a film that's quite afraid of travel and pits 'foreigners' as cultish murderers? One that's fairly conservative in its presentation of other cultures?

I mean, we're supposed to be afraid of what here, Sweden?

I won't suggest how problematic this film's pessimism would be when set in, say, Africa, but my gf is Swedish and I must admit it queers it a bit for me...

Is it specifically Sweden that we are meant to be afraid of? Or just a strange community in a strange land? Is it not the same as Wicker Man or many other films set in remote communities. It isn't so much the specific location so much as somewhere that is completely foreign, in all meanings of the word

DukeDeMondo

#39
It's near a week now since I saw this and still my thoughts are mostly fannying about away out in the wilds far north of anything approaching coherence.

I don't know if I liked it overall or I didn't, but there were things about it that I know I liked very much.

The sinister sort of telegraphing and foreshadowing that went on. I liked that a lot. The whole shower stumbling about oblivious even though every single thing that was going to happen to them was right up in their faces there the whole time. Queer illustrations or rum says or whatever. The whole time, right up in front of them. Put me in mind of Robin Redbreast, far as that went. The protagonists told again and again in one way or another exactly what was going on, but it never clicks, or if it does it's too late, things are too far gone (EDIT: Or, alternatively, they maybe know full well what's coming to them, in some cases, but they welcome it). The shepherding of the stud towards the buck barn and the simultaneous beatification of the May Queen was very Robin Redbreast also.

What I liked most of all, loved even, was how it used the human voice. All those eeees and grunts and gurgles and wails. Felt like a diseased sort of avant garde opera half the time. Or like Medulla by Björk if it had been left sitting in the sun too long before going into the fridge.

The choreographing too. Choreographed to within an inch of its life. Every movement sparking another just so, every line delivery timed to perfection.

Wore its influences well, I thought. Wicker Man, Hostel, The Lottery... All of that. Wore them well. Pilfered wisely.

I don't think it's anti-European. It's about a bunch of entitled American youngsters landing in an alien sort of space and expecting everything there to be there for their consumption. And then the alien sort of space bites back, and now their identities have turned on them all of a sudden. Again, very Hostel, although to be honest I think Hostel had a lot more going on, and had a lot more to say, and said it all better.

The grieving and letting go. I don't know, there was too much. A lot of mirroring. A lot of lines being drawn between things. The three points of the triangle. Christian's death echoing that of his parents. So on and so forth.

Some scenes, sequences, takes have lingered about me. The discovery of Dani's family. Up the stairs and into the room and into their faces and then away past them. The clap of the hands that brings Christian's world to bend around him. Dani's dream. Things of that stripe.

The great bit of shagging aside, I didn't find it all that funny. Poulter's schtick got annoying very quickly. The pube made me laugh. I dunno. It was nowhere near as horrifying as it needed to be either. The face smashing didn't hit me anywhere near hard enough. I don't know why. The similar carry on in Irreversible still wakes me out my sleep sometimes when my sleep decides to dangle it before me. This, no. Nowhere near that. 

Also I think it would have been much, much better if the protagonists had been older. I kept imagining Toni Collette and Gabriel Byrne in those roles. Would've felt far more substantial, somehow, I think.

I'll see it again, likely. Sometime. Maybe have some more cogent kinds of thoughts in my head after another run at it.




Pseudopath

I thought this was flipping ace (although the two people I saw it with hated it). As others have mentioned, the attention to detail is astounding and really helps build a cogent, believable world. Florence Pugh definitely deserves some plaudits for this performance.

That sex scene was one of the funniest things I've seen at the flicks (there were about twenty people at my screening and everyone was belly laughing throughout that bit).

thugler

This was great, Florence Pugh was incredible and the drug scenes were maybe the most accurate I've seen on screen.

That Seth Rogen/Chris Pratt amalgam was pretty bad in places, particularly in comparison with her. The scene where he was explaining to the swedes that he didn't know where the other anthropology student had gone was like something out of a sitcom.

Pseudopath

Quote from: thugler on July 10, 2019, 09:35:26 AM
the drug scenes were maybe the most accurate I've seen on screen

This. When I noticed the flowers on Dani's crown breathing, I was convinced I was tripping. The shots of the grass growing through her skin also reminded me of a recurring dream I used to have (although I realise it's a fairly-common hallucination and pagan motif).

Glebe

#43
Saw it on Monday... I liked a lot of stuff in it, I just feel like I need to give it another watch to and give it another mull over. Yes, the The Wicker Man influence is pretty blatant, but it has it's own thing going on, the hallucinogenic moments are fantastic and I loved the little details like the symbolic images and that. Agree that it's gonna divide people, just like Aster's Hereditary (which I liked, bizarre over-the-top ending and all)... some folks are suggesting that it's not actually scary, but I found it extremely unsettling in places, the hallucination of the breathing lungs of the skinned London guy in the barn was quite upsetting... actually, isn't that his leg planted in the garden? I thought it was a wink back to the dancing girl kicking him...

This is the first thing I've seen Florence Pugh in, she's terrific and is surely destined for mega-stardom. Agree that Poulter was underused as Mark (the 'Fool' of the piece), he provided most of the films laughs with his astonishing ignorance and idiocy (although surprise, surprise, the crazy sex scene got plenty of "fucking hell!" reaction giggles at my screening too!).

The elders diving off the cliff was kind of like the equivalent of the decapitated head in Hereditary as the film's big 'shock moment'... I actually thought all of the visitors would make a fuss and do a legger after that. Loved the kind of primal scream therapy screaming and wailing, the girls seem to be doing it to appear to be empathising with Dani - but are actually mocking her? (She does imagine they are laughing at her when she's tripping earlier on.)

I spotted the illustration of the bear on fire, didn't cop that someone was gonna end up in it's skin though. Btw, anyone else think they made 'Poundland Chris Pratt' a little too much of a jerk? He starts off cagey but at least somewhat sympathetic towards Dani, then ends up turning into an entirely charmless bellend.

Anyone else think that there were supposed to be actual dead bodies on the May Queen feast table? From above, it shows a kind of trifle made into a smiling person, but from the table-length angle it looked like human feet to me... and you can hear flies buzzing around. I was thinking of The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover... Aster has said he is a Peter Greenaway fan. Anyway, it's all kind of vague and trippy.

Quote from: worldsgreatestsinner on July 05, 2019, 03:43:15 PMIf he'd been a Leatherface figure then I'd agree that it's tasteless, but as it was I think he was used as a product of this fucked up community.

Isn't that he wearing Mark's face in the book temple? I didn't get all that about how they deliberately use inbreeding... when asked what happens when he dies, if they employ another product of inbreeding to finish his work, the old druid bloke says no... I dunno, maybe I'm just a dunce.

I felt some scenes went on a bit, but I kinda liked it overall... in any case, I think a repeat viewing might be in order. Oh btw, this could go in the 'bad cinema experiences' thread, it's a minor one but there was sound but no picture during the trailers at the showing I went too, until somebody popped out to tell a member of staff (I was considering doing it myself, honest).

Quote from: Puce Moment on July 06, 2019, 04:04:19 PMDid the Swedish guy always plan to bring Dani over to the festival to become the May Queen? I couldn't work out if the whole thing was a bluff, similar to who the chosen one is in Hereditary. I always assumed the cult wanted Dani, and probably killed her family to lead her to need a new family. The guy notes that it is her that he is really excited to bring over. However, by the end of the film I thought the whole thing was really, quite simply, organised to bring Poundland Chris Pratt over there to shag one of the girls to avoid inbreeding.

Thinking about it on the way home I definitely felt he had deliberately singled her out and had her family killed.

Quote from: Puce Moment on July 06, 2019, 04:04:19 PMALSO, the moment where he asks Christian to look at his thesis, but is clearly going to bollock him for inviting Mourning Meg to Sweden. Surely that was cut?

Yeah, I though that was weird too... was anticipating a cut to a private chat like you mentioned and it never materialises.

Quote from: DukeDeMondo on July 09, 2019, 05:18:29 PMWhat I liked most of all, loved even, was how it used the human voice. All those eeees and grunts and gurgles and wails. Felt like a diseased sort of avant garde opera half the time. Or like Medulla by Björk if it had been left sitting in the sun too long before going into the fridge.

Heh, yeah, I was thinking Bjork too, particularly the singing during the first feast.

Quote from: DukeDeMondo on July 09, 2019, 05:18:29 PMAlso I think it would have been much, much better if the protagonists had been older. I kept imagining Toni Collette and Gabriel Byrne in those roles. Would've felt far more substantial, somehow, I think.

I dunno if I've said it before, but I can't resist mentioned that my Dad, who used to be an amateur actor, knew Gabriel Byrne in his early days and I think actually directed him in a play. He said he knew he was going to become a big star and told him so back in the day.

Pseudopath

Quote from: Glebe on July 10, 2019, 05:19:31 PM
This is the first thing I've seen Florence Pugh in, she's terrific and is surely destined for mega-stardom.

You knows it. She was great in Lady Macbeth and Outlaw King too...and pretty much carried Fighting With My Family. Not a bad little singer/songwriter either.

BritishHobo

With regards to the chat between Poulter and Seth Rogen, I really liked that about the film. It felt like there was a lot of attention drawn to events that went on elsewhere (notably what transpired between Poulter and his lady-friend). I took it that, as with that scene, you're meant to get the gist of what's going to happen - you can pretty much picture Poulter having a go at Rogen for inviting his bloody naggy girlfriend on the LADS LADS LADS tour.

Glebe

Ari Aster Adding 30 Minutes To Midsommar Director's Cut.

Crikey! It's a little slow and overlong as is, but there's bound to be some fascinating scenes added.

Puce Moment

Quote from: Glebe on July 12, 2019, 05:14:59 PM
Ari Aster Adding 30 Minutes To Midsommar Director's Cut.

Crikey! It's a little slow and overlong as is, but there's bound to be some fascinating scenes added.

I hope this involves:

- Some extra scenes with Poulter (up to a point)
- The bear ritual
- Some more of that Haxan Cloak creepy dancing
- Even more amusing moments during the sex scene

Twit 2

#48
Just seen this. I liked it a good deal more than Hereditary, but it was too long and not entirely cohesive. On the other hand, the direction, photography, editing, score, set and costume design etc were outstanding. I also thought it was gesturing towards some quite ambitious themes and ideas, which I'll type out another time if I can be arsed.

Whole thing reminded me a lot of Herzog's Heart of Glass. I also would be surprised if he wasn't at least passingly familiar with the extended vocal techniques made famous by Ligeti, Berio, Lutoslawski et al, for the singing, wailing etc.

Overall I love the ambition and audacity. It's a bit of a mess, but it also felt like an absolute breath of fresh air. Saw it in a packed Odeon with a mainstream audience, and I like the fact that most of them were pretty bemused and disturbed by it. Cinema was full but you could hear a pin drop, apart from the odd gasp at the gore and titter at the sex.

I particularly liked the ending with those euphoric strings. I also really liked the opening few shots of the film, very arresting. At times it was even reminiscent of something like Under the Skin, which is high praise from me.

An intriguing, absurd, beautiful, slightly messy film, then. Happy to see something original in the multiplex that has a sense of film grammar and style. Made the trailer for IT 2 look woefully generic.

Puce Moment

Quote from: Twit 2 on July 14, 2019, 01:13:06 AMJust seen this. I liked it a good deal more than Hereditary, but it was too long and not entirely cohesive. On the other hand, the direction, photography, editing, score, set and costume design etc were outstanding. I also thought it was gesturing towards some quite ambitious themes and ideas, which I'll type out another time if I can be arsed.

Yes, like all good horror it manages to WORK ON MANY LEVELS™ - it can be seen as an extreme, heightened story about relationship breakdown (particularly caused by shit men), and in that sense it almost reminds me of Zulawski's Possession. But there is also something there about conformity, how humans are drawn to rituals and practices that look odd to outsiders. When I think of some of the surreal, ritualistic shit I had to as a Catholic altar boy, some of the more restrained scenes in Midsommar don't seem odd at all.

græskar

I really liked it. Can't say it was perfect, but it certainly wasn't typical. I agree with what others have said that it could've been shorter, I think it dragged on a bit too long in the middle.
It's certainly grown on me and has lingered in my thoughts for a few days after. There were some things which annoyed me, for example that the suicide of the old people was for me too telegraphed and I was annoyed that I wasn't surprised by it as I would like to have been. I also didn't like the fact that it was intentionally funny at times. I didn't like Will Poulter's character, I thought he was too cartoonish and - this may be unpopular - overacted. But I'm conflicted about these things because so much of this dissonance seems to be intentional. It was intentionally grotesque and I think the suicides were intentionally telegraphed. Ari Aster described it as a "fairy tale", so I think this fits with the idea that we follow a folk tale until its inevitable conclusion, rather than a thriller filled with plot twists.

I absolutely loved the aesthetic of it, the costumes, the choreography, the music, the paintings, the rituals. It was all great. I loved that most of the carnage and horror happened off-camera, as the visitors were picked off one by one, the audience aware of something terrible happening while there are hippies frollicking in the sunlight on the screen. Loved the diabolical finale and the curious revenge-porn undertone of the last scene. The sex scene was fantastic and obviously intentionally hilarious.

Contrary to what I believe is the popular opinion, I did find Christian still kind of sympathetic at the end. Maybe it's just because I find the actor hot, I'm quite shallow. But apart from him being a garden-variety prick, I didn't feel satisfaction at his fate at all. I think he was sympathetic to me from the beginning because, as awful as this sounds, I could put myself in his shoes - on the verge of breaking up with his girlfriend, where the spark is evidently gone, but suddenly bound to her for an indefinite period of time by the necessity to support her through a horrible tragedy. Of course, I can put myself in Dani's shoes much more and she was ultimately the sympathetic protagonist for me, but I can find some sympathy for Christian as well.

I don't think it's "anti-European", I think that's a very curious accusation, but the allusions to the rising far-right in Sweden and the rest of the Western world are quite clear and intentional. The temple where everybody gets barbecued in the last scene is exactly in the colours of the Swedish flag. And, come to think of it, isn't Hårga in a twisted way the actual fairy tale promised land of the alt-right/ultranationalist pricks of today? A peaceful, serene, self-sufficient, isolated utopia, where everybody is white and European, where people's worldviews are identical to the point of mimicking each other's emotions. I think this is very apt and ironic seeing how the rituals and beliefs of this community are probably neither ancient nor historical. After watching the film I was reading up on the tradition of "ättestupan", ie the killing of elders, shown in the movie and apparently there's no evidence whatsoever that this was a real tradition in Nordic cultures. As with many folk traditions, it only became a thing in the 19th century when nationalism was born in earnest and romantic writers started recording and embellishing folk tales. The same with the "blood eagle", the purported method of execution in ancient times, which the British guy was subjected to in the movie. It's mentioned in an Icelandic saga, but apparently nowhere else much and it's unclear whether it described a real practice or if it just was poetic language.

In any case, I think it's fitting with the portrayal of the ultranationalist idyll. The promised land of the nationalist, the old Europe of brave men and betitted maidens, never existed. In the same way, I can easily imagine Hårga and its belief system as a brainchild of some crazy neopagans from the 1870s, which only pretends to be an ancient community frozen in time.

Puce Moment

Wonderful post.

Quote from: græskar on July 16, 2019, 11:01:23 PMBut I'm conflicted about these things because so much of this dissonance seems to be intentional.

It's the uiltimate get-out clause for inexperienced directors, but I do think much of the anti-logic, telegraphing and seeming inevitablity of the characters' demise was very much controlled by Aster. I think that is one of the thing that most impresses me about him as a Director. It's not about fulfilling the genre - it's about using it as a tool.

Cuellar

Saw it on Saturday.

Funniest bits:

- the squished heads reminded me of Limmy's 'BUILDING BRICKS' sketch. Big laugh from me.
- Sex scene obviously, despite basically watching a rape
- Pele saying, repeatedly, 'my parents burned up in a fire'

Reminded me of Partridge's line, 'I'm not coming to your baptist church Lynn. You always get people when they're down'. An exploration of radicalisation: rootless, damaged people desperate for belonging. Overall a bit boring.

It's the first time I'd been to the cinema for YEARS probably. I think the last thing I saw was The Death of Stalin. Horrible experience, surrounded by people chomping on crisps, slurping drinks, whispering. Sitting through half an hour of adverts beforehand. I happened to be sitting next to a Swedish couple who were giving a running commentary about everything they saw, and translating key bits of story. Why does anyone bother? Just watch things at home.

garbed_attic

Quote from: Puce Moment on July 17, 2019, 05:34:06 AM
Wonderful post.

It's the uiltimate get-out clause for inexperienced directors, but I do think much of the anti-logic, telegraphing and seeming inevitablity of the characters' demise was very much controlled by Aster. I think that is one of the thing that most impresses me about him as a Director. It's not about fulfilling the genre - it's about using it as a tool.

It's interesting that... like, I'd definitely classify Midsommar as a folk horror, yet I'd almost hesitate to fall it a horror film. It's certainly more disquieting and troubling than outright scary.

popcorn

Quote from: Cuellar on July 17, 2019, 09:38:06 AM
I happened to be sitting next to a Swedish couple who were giving a running commentary about everything they saw, and translating key bits of story. Why does anyone bother? Just watch things at home.

I think I was guilty of this when my foreign gf and I saw Hereditary in Brighton. I kept having to whisper translations for her. When they get the flyer for the seance the best I could do was "ghost communication party".

Cuellar

I don't think either of them needed a translation, if I'm honest. One slightly annoying thing was that bit where Pele says 'tomorrow is the big day, it's the [Swedish word I imagine]' and they're all like 'what's that', but that one guy already knows. Well, the next day those two old timers sit at the head of the table, and at this point the woman of the couple next to me said to her partner (who I think had been in the loo) 'those are the people that are going to be killed'

Now I don't know if that was given away by the Swedish word Pele said, or if she was just guessing. I suppose it was pretty clear by that point that they were for it. Anyway.

Cuellar

I also thought that burning a 'Christian' at the end was a bit on the nose.

Wet Blanket

Quote from: Cuellar on July 17, 2019, 11:58:28 AMNow I don't know if that was given away by the Swedish word Pele said, or if she was just guessing. I suppose it was pretty clear by that point that they were for it. Anyway.

The culty stuff they get up to is based on real pagan rituals and Ättestupa is indeed a real thing.

I go to the cinema really often and 9 times out of 10 it's fine, though I think as a seasoned cinemagoer I've cottoned on to how to avoid shithouses ruining it - e.g. never go on a weekend, never see a prime time showing, always see mainstream movies at arthouse cinemas and vice versa etc.

In fairness to my Midsommar audience, it was about half full, and mainly teenage couples who whooped at the trailer for Annabelle 12 or whatever it was called. I thought they were going to ruin the movie but all of them behaved themselves, not even any sniggering during the bonking scene. At the end I overheard one group telling each other how much they'd enjoyed it, so not all teenage movie goers are arseholes. Just most of them. 

amoral

Haven seen this yet, but in a recent Reddit AMA the director named Chris Morris as one of his favorite working directors, specifically for Jam.

https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/cbxc8v/hi_im_ari_aster_writerdirector_of_midsommar_ama/etj5nka/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

PlanktonSideburns

Pele is in this? Turn up for the books