Wrestling: The Baron Corbin Era

[Ja'moke]

That's.... not a smart move. They need to get away from WWE as far as possible. Don't mention WWE. Don't say you're gonna beat WWE. Don't make jokes about WWE. Don't debut the same week as WWE. Otherwise it will end up being Hogan TNA 2.0.

It's not airing the same night, it's going to be airing on Tuesdays. It's just going to be the same week, at a time when the "fall" TV season starts.

Also, WWE were the ones referencing AEW all over the HOF speech.

[Timothy]

It's not airing the same night, it's going to be airing on Tuesdays. It's just going to be the same week, at a time when the "fall" TV season starts.

Also, WWE were the ones referencing AEW all over the HOF speech.

Debuting in the same week on Smackdown's old night....

AEW keeps referring to WWE. They Retweet, their wrestlers keep talking about WWE etc. Not a smart move.

[An Actual Propeller]

AEW keeps referring to WWE. They Retweet, their wrestlers keep talking about WWE etc. Not a smart move.

Watch a couple of episodes of Being the Elite, then get back to me with the total amount of minutes talking about WWE compared to not talking about WWE.

The odd reference to WWE is fine.  WWE is by far the biggest wrestling organisation on the planet.  It'd be weird if, say, Dean Ambrose/Jon Moxley joined and AEW didn't mention his past.  The problem would be if they pushed ex-WWE stars above homegrown ones, rehashed useless WWE ideas, hired dipshits like Vince Russo, stuff like that.

[up_the_hampipe]

There's a good point in what Timothy is saying though. There's a temptation for getting attention by shitting on WWE. We don't need another "see ya at the Alamo" moment.

[hummingofevil]

In Vince McMahon cuntiness news, he apparently fired a writer that worked with Bret for his HOF speech because he mentioned Vince. The poor guy was fired in Gorilla during the ceremony as well. Later on, those DX twats came out dropping Vince's name all over the place and Billy Gunn boasted that Vince can't fire him.

You read about the weird Pat McFee story? He was told not to wear jorts on screen so turned up wearing a pair of shorts made from a tuxedo trousers. Michael Cole bollocked him (in his role as overseer of all commentary talent) publically for it and he was forced to go and sit with the kids in Metlife daycare. McFee was about to quit and walk out at the way Cole spoke to him only for Vince to get involved as he had seen a picture of LeBron wearing a similar outfit that Vince thought was cool. Ended up with Cole apologising to McFee as he only had a go at him because he was worried that Vince would have fired McFee as Cole thought Vince hated shorts. So they all made up.

---

It's completely fucking batshit.

[up_the_hampipe]

Yeah, saw that yesterday. That's the climate of fear Vince has created over there. Pat certainly won't put up with any of that nonsense, so we'll see how long he lasts.

[hummingofevil]

Timothy.

You need to go back and listen to the Jericho interview with Meltzer from a couple of months ago. They discussed at length how the intention is not for AEW to be in a "war" with WWE and they are happy to work, or at least coexist, with anyone, including WWE.

Jericho talked about how he pitched a Jericho/Naito WWE/NJPW intercontinental champion-vs-champion match to Vince (for Summerslam I think) and also The Young Bucks had mentioned the possibility of somehow having a match with The New Day in the future.

Dave told Jericho that "it is already a war even if you don't want it to be" as AEW were bidding against WWE for talent and Jericho (obviously conceded this and referred to 'other things' happening from WWE's side that had ramped up in recent weeks but he didn't want to mention them on the record).

Jericho then went on to repeat what we all know and that anything that happens with WWE is on Vince's say and that is the end of it. If he wanted to do a NJPW match in Summerslam it would have happened; if he wanted to come up with an agreement to have The New Day take on The Bucks and Omega it would happen. There is only one megalomaniac in wrestling obsessed with what his rivals are doing and it is not AEW.

Presenting AEW as a company obsessed with rivaling WWE is, quite simply, a load of shite and you keep referring to a couple of articles from external sources the AEW account retweeted a few months ago.

---

FWIW  I am very unsure about a regular AEW product being a success but as they haven't even had their first show yet I will happily wait and see.

[Timothy]

Watch a couple of episodes of Being the Elite, then get back to me with the total amount of minutes talking about WWE compared to not talking about WWE.

The odd reference to WWE is fine.  WWE is by far the biggest wrestling organisation on the planet.  It'd be weird if, say, Dean Ambrose/Jon Moxley joined and AEW didn't mention his past.  The problem would be if they pushed ex-WWE stars above homegrown ones, rehashed useless WWE ideas, hired dipshits like Vince Russo, stuff like that.

It always makes me think of things like this (even though that's not from Being the Elite):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZmHz8l4y-w

There's a good point in what Timothy is saying though. There's a temptation for getting attention by shitting on WWE. We don't need another "see ya at the Alamo" moment.

Exactly. And even though it's normal to debut in the fall, it's also about perspective. Debuting on the old Smackdown slot is a good way to start new WWE VS AEW rumors.

[hummingofevil]

Yeah, saw that yesterday. That's the climate of fear Vince has created over there. Pat certainly won't put up with any of that nonsense, so we'll see how long he lasts.

There is also the subcontext that you know Vince has a hard-on for a. anything to do with football so McFee automatically get 1000 brownie points and b. there is a very good chance that this was Vince fucking with Cole for a laugh.

[Timothy]

Timothy.

You need to go back and listen to the Jericho interview with Meltzer from a couple of months ago. They discussed at length how the intention is not for AEW to be in a "war" with WWE and they are happy to work, or at least coexist, with anyone, including WWE.

Jericho talked about how he pitched a Jericho/Naito WWE/NJPW intercontinental champion-vs-champion match to Vince (for Summerslam I think) and also The Young Bucks had mentioned the possibility of somehow having a match with The New Day in the future.

Dave told Jericho that "it is already a war even if you don't want it to be" as AEW were bidding against WWE for talent and Jericho (obviously conceded this and referred to 'other things' happening from WWE's side that had ramped up in recent weeks but he didn't want to mention them on the record).

Jericho then went on to repeat what we all know and that anything that happens with WWE is on Vince's say and that is the end of it. If he wanted to do a NJPW match in Summerslam it would have happened; if he wanted to come up with an agreement to have The New Day take on The Bucks and Omega it would happen. There is only one megalomaniac in wrestling obsessed with what his rivals are doing and it is not AEW.

Presenting AEW as a company obsessed with rivaling WWE is, quite simply, a load of shite and you keep referring to a couple of articles from external sources the AEW account retweeted a few months ago.

---

FWIW  I am very unsure about a regular AEW product being a success but as they haven't even had their first show yet I will happily wait and see.

Thing is: I don't think it's wise to have Jericho do these interviews for AEW, considering he's still reviewing WWE shows on his podcast (or he has to stop doing that). And the idea of their wrestlers facing WWE wrestlers also isn't a smart move. They just have to get away from fans thinking this is going to be the next big WWE rival. They should stop using Jericho as a spokesperson for AEW even if he's doing it on his own terms or without them asking to do it. At this moment it will always be EX WWE wrestler Jericho talking about WWE while being in AEW.

You are right about AEW not being obsessed about it. But they should do things to actively stop their fans pushing it as a big WWE rival.

Shit it's hard to get my points across but the main thing is that they should try and get as far away from WWE as possible when they start because either way it's not helping them.

[hummingofevil]

Exactly. And even though it's normal to debut in the fall, it's also about perspective. Debuting on the old Smackdown slot is a good way to start new WWE VS AEW rumors.

When would you prefer them to debut? Monday nights at 8pm? Fridays?

If AEW can pick up 50% of the Smackdown audience that is looking to watch wrestling on a Tuesday night after WWE has moved then that will be a huge success for them. If they get 1 million views regularly as new promotion that is massive.

Put it in context. Vince is getting $1billion for an average of 3 million viewers a week just for RAW and another $1billion for 2 million on Smackdown in a country of 350million people.

The money out there is insane for these companies and there is no chance that WWE is getting damaged financially for a long, long time yet (if ever) and AEW know that and know that to go there as a device for drumming up publicity is just daft.

For context last Sunday's episodes of Countryfile and Antiques Roadshow drew 5 million each in a nation of 70 million.

[Timothy]

There's nothing wrong with Tuesdays.

But in that exact same week Smackdown moves to another channel from Tuesday to Friday. So yeah, they can pick up WWE's audience, but that can also backfire. If they do that then their first ever live TV show has to be completely perfect. If it won't be then they're screwed.

It also ignites that whole WWE VS AEW thing that some fans desperately wants to push.

[hummingofevil]

Thing is: I don't think it's wise to have Jericho do these interviews for AEW, considering he's still reviewing WWE shows on his podcast (or he has to stop doing that). And the idea of their wrestlers facing WWE wrestlers also isn't a smart move. They just have to get away from fans thinking this is going to be the next big WWE rival. They should stop using Jericho as a spokesperson for AEW even if he's doing it on his own terms or without them asking to do it. At this moment it will always be EX WWE wrestler Jericho talking about WWE while being in AEW.

You are right about AEW not being obsessed about it. But they should do things to actively stop their fans pushing it as a big WWE rival.

Shit it's hard to get my points across but the main thing is that they should try and get as far away from WWE as possible when they start because either way it's not helping them.

The fans can think whatever they like. The first lesson of wrestling (and music and comedy and sports and Rick And Morty and... ... well EVERYTHING) is to try not to judge an artist by their fan base. All fans of everything are dicks.

My point is that I don't see AEW (or many of their fans for that matter) banging on about WWE. The Jericho stuff is all fair enough as he is very precise and fair in the things he says (find me one clip of him slagging off WWE or Vince and I will retract that).

In fact the only person on here who keeps bring it up is you.

[Timothy]

My point is that I don't see AEW (or many of their fans for that matter) banging on about WWE. The Jericho stuff is all fair enough as he is very precise and fair in the things he says (find me one clip of him slagging off WWE or Vince and I will retract that).

Take a look at the Square Circle Reddit and you know what I mean.

I hope AEW succeeds because another great wrestling show is good for all fans.

[An Actual Propeller]

Take a look at the Square Circle Reddit and you know what I mean.

Stop looking at that shit and subscribe to the Observer.

[Ja'moke]

It also ignites that whole WWE VS AEW thing that some fans desperately wants to push.

WWE themselves pushed it when Triple H said that Vince would "buy that pissant company" or when he mocked the "executive vice president" title or when HBK said Billy Gunn is "all-in."

[Timothy]

That was indeed incredibly dumb.

[up_the_hampipe]

WWE themselves pushed it when Triple H said that Vince would "buy that pissant company" or when he mocked the "executive vice president" title or when HBK said Billy Gunn is "all-in."

I think those were intended just to be jokes to pop the smarks.

[Deanjam]

This made me chuckle.

[hummingofevil]

I think those were intended just to be jokes to pop the smarks.

"Jokes" that would have had Vince losing his shit and anyone other than HHH begging to keep their jobs. HHH provoking AEW chants at WWE HOF would have been giving Vince a fucking meltdown. I thought it was them very much dropping their guard and revealing their true thoughts

[Ja'moke]

I think those were intended just to be jokes to pop the smarks.

Oh, they definitely were jokes. But it's still mentioning the "competition" and they knew it would create a buzz.

[up_the_hampipe]

"Jokes" that would have had Vince losing his shit and anyone other than HHH begging to keep their jobs. HHH provoking AEW chants at WWE HOF would have been giving Vince a fucking meltdown. I thought it was them very much dropping their guard and revealing their true thoughts

I'm sure there was some bitter truth behind it. HHH did a lot of that with the "too sweet" chants and so on, he's one of those cunts you don't want to be around because you know they'll just say mean shit to you and disguise it as jokes.

Anyway, my point was just that it wasn't a sincere attempt to ignite a feud with AEW.

[Spode]

You read about the weird Pat McFee story? He was told not to wear jorts on screen so turned up wearing a pair of shorts made from a tuxedo trousers. Michael Cole bollocked him (in his role as overseer of all commentary talent) publically for it and he was forced to go and sit with the kids in Metlife daycare. McFee was about to quit and walk out at the way Cole spoke to him only for Vince to get involved as he had seen a picture of LeBron wearing a similar outfit that Vince thought was cool. Ended up with Cole apologising to McFee as he only had a go at him because he was worried that Vince would have fired McFee as Cole thought Vince hated shorts. So they all made up.

---

It's completely fucking batshit.

"McFee, I thought I told you to trim those trousers! Go home, you're off the team!"

[An Actual Propeller]

I'm not sure why there's so much chat about referencing the "other side".  It's perfectly fine for AEW to give the odd mention to WWE and vice versa.  AEW's not going to make the same mistakes TNA did.  What's the issue here?

[Timothy]

I'm not sure why there's so much chat about referencing the "other side".  It's perfectly fine for AEW to give the odd mention to WWE and vice versa.  AEW's not going to make the same mistakes TNA did.  What's the issue here?

It's not necessarily an issue but I think that an ex WWE wrestler who starts a new company, talks about how different his company is for both audience as workers from the WWE, and has his first show on the old slot of WWE's second biggest show is either very very sure his product is going to be fantastic or is making a mistake.

[An Actual Propeller]

It's not necessarily an issue but I think that an ex WWE wrestler who starts a new company, talks about how different his company is for both audience as workers from the WWE, and has his first show on the old slot of WWE's second biggest show is either very very sure his product is going to be fantastic or is making a mistake.

Why do you think that?

[Timothy]

There will be a lot of viewers who accidentally turn in into Smackdown's old slot or DVR it or whatever.
If that first show is bad, or poorly produced or whatever, they lose viewers before they even started.
I trust Cody and think the show will be great but any mistake will be used against them.

[up_the_hampipe]

Oops, guess those RAGSHEETS were wrong about the writer getting fired at the HOF https://twitter.com/Oh_Robert_Evans/status/1116323690684264449/photo/1

[An Actual Propeller]

There will be a lot of viewers who accidentally turn in into Smackdown's old slot or DVR it or whatever.

It won't happen, AEW won't be on USA Network.

If that first show is bad, or poorly produced or whatever, they lose viewers before they even started.

Let's not deal in hypotheticals.  They will lose viewers after they start, if the first show is shite, but we simply don't know that it will be.  It probably won't be.

I trust Cody and think the show will be great but any mistake will be used against them.

As long as they learn from their mistakes, it'll be fine.  TNA didn't.  AEW are a whole smarter bunch of cookies.

[hummingofevil]

There will be a lot of viewers who accidentally turn in into Smackdown's old slot or DVR it or whatever.
If that first show is bad, or poorly produced or whatever, they lose viewers before they even started.
I trust Cody and think the show will be great but any mistake will be used against them.

They should put it on at noon on a Monday morning then just to be sure nobody watches it. Have you spotted the flaw in your argument yet?