Wrestling: The Baron Corbin Era

[Timothy]

Lars Sullivan sucks. It's the same camera angle with the same move on the same spot. Yeah that's bad. But saying that's visual evidence why WWE feels stale is a bit of a stretch imo.

And yes, the way they treat the Revival is disgusting. Not funny. Idiotic. The past few RAW's weren't that good. I'm not a fan that's easily satisfied. There are weeks where I skip RAW and SD and just watch the PPV's.

But at the same time I just enjoy how MITB is shaping up to be. I mean, look at the card:

1   Becky Lynch (c) vs. Lacey Evans   
2   Seth Rollins (c) vs. AJ Styles
3   Braun Strowman vs. Ricochet vs. Drew McIntyre vs. Baron Corbin vs. Ali vs. Finn Bálor vs. Andrade vs. Randy Orton   
4   Natalya vs. Dana Brooke vs. Naomi vs. Alexa Bliss vs. Bayley vs. Mandy Rose vs. Ember Moon vs. Carmella
5   Roman Reigns vs. Elias
6   Becky Lynch (c) vs. Charlotte Flair   
7   The Miz vs. Shane McMahon   
8   Kofi Kingston (c) vs. Kevin Owens
9   Samoa Joe (c) vs. Rey Mysterio

There's just one possible bad boring match on the card and that's Reigns vs Elias. Miz VS Shane in a cage is going to be fun. Joe vs Mysterio will be a good match. Becky has two matches on one card, which sucks (not a fan) but they will both be good matches. Kingston vs Owens, Rollins VS Styles and the MITB matches will be amazing.

[BeardFaceMan]

You know, I think Vince just might be mental enough to make his TV shows tank on purpose in order to stop AEW getting a good TV deal, I can't see any other explanation for why WWE has become so awful.

Edit to add - Timothy, don't you feel its telling that when you talk about WWE, you mostly talk about matches you are looking forward to, not matches you've recently enjoyed?

[Timothy]

Thats because the matches I enjoy the most are at PPVs.

That said Bryan vs Kofi was quite good last night.

I still dont really get why you keep talking and trashing WWE even though you havent watch a single WWE show in years. Makes no sense imo.

[sevendaughters]

With the talent WWE have at their disposal there is no excuse for their PPVs not to be hot as hell. It is the best roster ever assembled in terms of wrestling talent. But I doubt I'll tune in for MITB. They sell it as a storytelling form - which is valid, a good story elevates a match that isn't necessarily 'great work' - but their storytelling is awful right now. Cringeworthy, even. I cannot invest because they cannot.

[BeardFaceMan]

The only stories and characters that make the air are those filtered through the brain of an out of touch, 70 year old trailer trash billionaire. How are you going to make sense of that? RAW these days is essentially a Vince fever dream/onset of dementia made real.

[cliggg]

A question on The Revival. They want to leave but WWE won't let them and instead are trying to embarrass  them with these segments the last few weeks because they won't sign a new deal. Why don't The Revival just refuse to do them? Vince gets offended at them saying no, they get fired, see out their 90 day no-compete clause, go work for AEW or whoever and get what they wanted?

[Timothy]

The only stories and characters that make the air are those filtered through the brain of an out of touch, 70 year old trailer trash billionaire. How are you going to make sense of that? RAW these days is essentially a Vince fever dream/onset of dementia made real.

You havent watched RAW in years. You dont follow WWE anymore. How can you form an opinion about something you dont watch?

With the talent WWE have at their disposal there is no excuse for their PPVs not to be hot as hell. It is the best roster ever assembled in terms of wrestling talent.

Agreed.

[BeardFaceMan]

You havent watched RAW in years. You dont follow WWE anymore. How can you form an opinion about something you dont watch?

Hehe how many times are you going to trot that out as a defense? I see the odd random clip and I read the recaps, that's all I need to know its not worth bothering with on a regular basis. The last thing I saw was that god awful new Bray Wyatt gimmick. Which you probably think is interesting and look forward to seeing more of, without actually enjoying any of it.

[Timothy]

How do you know any of the wrestlers or characters when you only read the recaps?

And New Wyatt is awesome. Those Firefly Funhouse segments are great.

[sevendaughters]

People who watch it week-in/week-out are saying the show sucks. It's a flimsy defence to say BFM don't watch, Tim, you know this. It's a genuine gripe shared by a lot of the long-suffering fans. Csonka on 411Wrestling gave yesterday a 2 out of 10 and he is a full-on WWE fan.

On the Wyatt stuff, it is interesting rather than awesome, but there is no match between the Adult Swim style of a vignette series done in isolation and how that translates in storyline, in matches, etc. Like Wyatt's last gimmick, it is a clearly signposted dead end.

[Timothy]

I just dont get how you dont watch a show for years, stop investing time in it, dont know any of the current characters but still take the time to keep saying it sucks. But thats just me I guess.

I predict Wyatt to be the hottest wrestler at Summerslam. This is great and is going to be great.

And yeah RAW has been quite bad since Mania. Doesnt disagree with that. That whole wild card they have no is the biggest sign the RAW writers have no clue what theyre doing.

Smackdown is still good though. And MITB is shaping up to be an amazing PPV.

[Delete Delete Delete]

On Sunday I cancelled my WWE subsciption, On Monday WWE put out this edition is raw. I can no longer justify keeping the Network on the strength of NXT takeovers, knowing that these stars will eventually be called up and lost in a directionless show. Its really bad at the moment and Corban and Drew tagging is the pits.

[An Actual Propeller]

A question on The Revival. They want to leave but WWE won't let them and instead are trying to embarrass  them with these segments the last few weeks because they won't sign a new deal. Why don't The Revival just refuse to do them? Vince gets offended at them saying no, they get fired, see out their 90 day no-compete clause, go work for AEW or whoever and get what they wanted?

The Revival won't refuse to do them, because they would get suspended, and have time added to their contracts.  They won't get fired, because they are useful to opposition.  Also, refusing to do segments sends out a message that they're unprofessional to other promoters.  They're genuinely best off doing these bullshit segments, and wait until their contacts expire.

[Huxleys Babkins]

On Sunday I cancelled my WWE subsciption, On Monday WWE put out this edition is raw. I can no longer justify keeping the Network on the strength of NXT takeovers, knowing that these stars will eventually be called up and lost in a directionless show. Its really bad at the moment and Corban and Drew tagging is the pits.

Conversely, the Network is the only thing I'm sticking with as everything there is of consistently high quality (even the main brand PPVs are decent, just too long) plus the amount of classic content on there is ridiculous. It's the one thing they get right so I'm not punishing them (or myself) by cancelling that.

No way I'm watching Raw or Smackdown though.

[BeardFaceMan]

I just dont get how you dont watch a show for years, stop investing time in it, dont know any of the current characters but still take the time to keep saying it sucks. But thats just me I guess.

Hehe you really do keep ignoring everything I say don't you? I watch clips, I watched Wrestlemania this year, I read the dirt sheets and recaps. I know who the characters and stories are, that's the exact reason why I don't watch.

[hummingofevil]

I would love to know what the viewing figures of RAW would be if they subtracted everyone who watched it just to talk shit about it on internet would be.

Timothy, that PPV line up looks gash.

As for the Revival, if you really stop and think about it it shows Vince to be even more out of touch than we thought. There isn't even any logic to his logic. Is on-screen Vince a face or a heel? I get the impression that he thinks he is a good guy "giving the fans what they want" but then those same fans know he is the one making such a mess of his own product AND is a moral vacuum AND a vindictive bully. It's Mr McMahon in reverse.

Now take The Usos who, whilst never being A** top tier guys have always combined being decent in ring and decent on the mics to genuinely get themselves over. Likeable faces, believable heels. But what is this shit? If Vince thinks The Revival are the bad guys for wanting to leave so Vince is the good guy for pulling this shit on them but the fans believe the opposite then that makes The Usos, for the first time ever just Vince's bitches. Bullying faces acting like dicks. It's embarrasing.

What it also does is make The Revival utterly immune to losing any sheen as all it will take is one promo on leaving where they shit all over WWE for the shit they have had to put up and they are fucking heroes.

I too thought of conspiracy theory of Vince purposely trying to bomb his own ratings to affect AEW but surely not even he is that mental. As we saw with last round the agent (can't remember his name) who both WWE and UFC used in negotiations with networks actually used the fact that there were multiple strong companies to inflate both their deals.

Speaking of which the XFL deal looks intriguing. Basically, the company is split with Vince liable for all costs outside of tv production with FOX and ESPN covering that ($400,000 a game) but taking all the revenue for TV ads. Vince has to pay salaries and expenses etc but gets to keep gate money and in-stadium ad revenue. Why this is so fascinating is that it pretty much means that Vince is relying on the things he is shit at doing with WWE (the house show business that barely scrapes even) to not make huge losses. Interesting times.

[Timothy]

Timothy, that PPV line up looks gash.

I disagree.

What would be a better MITB card in your opinion? And why do you think it looks bad?

Genuine question. All the champions are wrestlers people wanted to be champs for ages. Everybody's favorite Becky (at least a month ago) has two matches, one with Charlotte which promises to be a good match and one with an up and coming NXT debutee Lacey Evans. So a match with both an established and new talent.

Then we have favorite heel Kevin Owens vs favorite face Kofi in what promises to be a good match, WWE champ Rollins (Brock finally lost his title!) vs Styles (great), two good MITB matches, Rey Rey vs champ Samoa Joe and a steel cage match between batshit Shane and brilliant face Miz.

What's wrong with that? How is that a bad card?

[sevendaughters]

Vince has put aside enough money to cover 3 years of losses @ $10m per week. Ballsy and probably stupid.

[sevendaughters]

Becky is hurting and I think both matches on the card at the same time suggest shenanigans rather than two good matches. I also think Becky is more character than worker, but I would at least expect the basic "work" of the Charlotte match to be ok unless they pull a fast one to delay it to Summerslam. Lacey Evans is not a good wrestler and I expect this one to flop.

Shane and Miz...they already did a smoke and mirrors garbage match. This is two non-wrestlers doing the same shit they've been doing for half a year. It is putrid.

[An Actual Propeller]

If you listen to just Mike and the Mechanics, then you're going to look forward to the next album.  Say it loud (say it loud), say it clear (oh say it clear), you can listen as well as you hear, it's too late (it's too late) when we die (oh when we die), to admit we don't see eye to eye.

[Timothy]

If you listen to just Mike and the Mechanics, then you're going to look forward to the next album.

Sorry, but that whole Mike and the Mechanics comparison doesn't make any sense. Like I said before: You can like some of a band's songs or albums but that doesn't automatically mean you like everything else they do and/or release.

Trying to make it seem that I automatically like everything WWE does is just a cheap way to discuss imo because I made it very clear that I don't.

Shane and Miz...they already did a smoke and mirrors garbage match. This is two non-wrestlers doing the same shit they've been doing for half a year. It is putrid.

Two non wrestlers?

[Timothy]

By the way, is there a way to pre-order the Double or Nothing PPV? I've tried to find ways to do so but there's doesn't seem to be an option.

[An Actual Propeller]

Trying to make it seem that I automatically like everything WWE does is just a cheap way to discuss imo because I made it very clear that I don't.

Not the point.  The point was that there's a wider, better world out there than Mike Mizanin and the Mechanics.

By the way, is there a way to pre-order the Double or Nothing PPV? I've tried to find ways to do so but there's doesn't seem to be an option.

It'll be on the FITE TV app - use the invite code lpm0k28 to get $10 credit when you sign up if you fancy it.

[Timothy]

Not the point.  The point was that there's a wider, better world out there than Mike Mizanin and the Mechanics.

I'm not sure why you are trying to get that point across since everybody here already knows that and agrees. There are better wrestling shows out there then Raw and Smackdown. Raw and Smackdown have been quite bad shows lately. Doesn't mean we can't still enjoy the segments and matches that are good (like Kofi vs Bryan and the Wyatt segment on Raw yesterday).

It'll be on the FITE TV app - use the invite code lpm0k28 to get $10 credit when you sign up if you fancy it.

Cheers! And will do. Really looking forward to that show.

[hummingofevil]

Double or Nothing will be on Fite TV. If you have not used Fite TV before let me know and I (or someone else if you prefer - :) )can "invite" you which means that we both get some credits that can be used to buy other shows.

The WWE PPV looks garbage because I have lost all interest all faith in anything that they do and they have made even the most excellent in ring matches missable. Joe vs Rey could be great but why do I need to watch it again? Why should I care? They bring Rey back, he is in the form of his life and they beat him time and time and time again. Fine. Has it got anyone else over? No. Does it make me want to watch more Rey? No. It's pathetic.

Styles and Rollins is the least interesting top-tier combination going, Shane-Miz was quite fun the first time and the women's stuff is so over written it is... meh!

---

Did anyone here ever watch Oz? The HBO prison thing that was a pre-curser to all these awesome long-form TV shows that we now have? It was fucking amazing. I watched every episode gripped at the combination of violence and threat and humour and dred and loved all the characters even the worst rapists and Nazis that were in there. It was glorious TV. Then at one episode in season 3 or 4 they gave started a storyline where they gave Riley (was it Riley - he was Irish) an experimental pill that would speed up the aging process and kill him quicker with the idea being he could then serve a shorter sentence. It was absolute garbage. Not only jumping the shark but stopping mid-flight to lay a lukewarm dog egg on its scaley fins. I turned it off mid-episode. I never went back. I never finished Oz. This is WWE right now.

[hummingofevil]

Not the point.  The point was that there's a wider, better world out there than Mike Mizanin and the Mechanics.

It'll be on the FITE TV app - use the invite code lpm0k28 to get $10 credit when you sign up if you fancy it.

Bastard! Beat me to it....

[Timothy]

Rey vs Samoa Joe was suppose to be a longer, normal match at Mania but Rey was injured and I was disappointed by that. So I'm really looking forward to a proper Joe vs Mysterio match. Should be good.

How does Fite TV work? Just sign up, use the code, pay and then watch the show?

WWE's ongoing changes to the creative team continue with the recent release of long-time writer Ryan Callahan. A Fightful.com report suggests that this departure stems from issues Callahan had with fellow writer Dave Kapoor, who has previously managed the Great Khali on-screen as Ranjin Singh. Kapoor evidently felt Callahan took changes in creative direction too personally and found him difficult to work with. Callahan was officially fired on May 2nd.

This comes off the heels of moves such as Road Dogg stepping down as head writer for SmackDown, RD Evans abruptly quitting during the WWE Hall Of Fame ceremony, the short stay of Dave Schilling and the release of Kazeem Fumuyide.

Shit.

[An Actual Propeller]

I'm not sure why you are trying to get that point across since everybody here already knows that and agrees. There are better wrestling shows out there then Raw and Smackdown. Raw and Smackdown have been quite bad shows lately. Doesn't mean we can't still enjoy the bits and matches that are good (like Kofi vs Bryan and the Wyatt segment on Raw).

Thing is though, every single week, Raw and Smackdown gets the majority of the comments, and the majority of those comments are ones slagging off the show.  It's the same Stockholm syndrome that football fans have when their shit football team gets beat every week.  There's better wrestling shows almost anywhere out there these days, I haven't a clue why you would want to sit through a crock of absolute shite just to see a decent Bryan/Kofi match.  It's depressing, the last Raw I watched was the Raw after Mania and it was boring as fuck, every time an NXT wrestler gets called up I think "well, that's me not watching them again" because it's all fucked, WWE is just a fucking stupid way of spending your free time and it could be all different if that old Vince cunt just dies from a steroid-included heart attack so he doesn't scat-splatter his fucking shows with his idiot offspring and this dumbshit ideas, this paragraph started off nice and turned angry because just thinking about WWE these days makes me angry.  Sorry.

Cheers! And will do. Really looking forward to that show.

Thanks blud.  Might offset the Mania bet loses somewhat :)

How does Fite TV work? Just sign up, use the code, pay and then watch the show?

Aye, basically that.  Dead easy, if you can use WWE Network, you can use Fite.

[hummingofevil]

If you use the code you get credit (which won't be enough to pay for the show but you can use it later). Then you just buy it as normal subscription with cash. It is a great service if a little expensive. I'm guessing for Double or Nothing it will be the only choice as they no longer aligned to ROH.

[An Actual Propeller]

Also, it'll work out around $40 for the PPV alone.  Try and buy it from a laptop as opposed to a phone app or something, as on the app it's usually $40 = £40, rather than £30.67.