Wrestling: The Baron Corbin Era

[Timothy]

There's a reason he got such a massive reaction at DoN, and it's not because he's an ex-WWE star, it's because the people were excited to see Jon Moxley again instead of Dean Ambrose.

But would he have gotten such a massive reaction at DoN if he'd never been Dean Ambrose in the first place?
Because the reason most people heard about him was because he was Dean Ambrose.

[up_the_hampipe]

But would he have gotten such a massive reaction at DoN if he'd never been Dean Ambrose in the first place?
Because the reason most people heard about him was because he was Dean Ambrose.

Sure, he spent like 8 years there. That doesn't mean he wouldn't have become a big star on the indies though. If he'd never gone to WWE, I'm sure he'd still be a major player in AEW.

[BRen]

He was definitely a big indie name back in the day, mainly as he was a brilliant all-rounder, he could have a great straight up wrestling match and he did all the death match stuff as well, he had (and still has) charisma coming out of his arse and could talk a good promo. People thought WWE would elevate all of that ability, instead they took a big shit on it really.

It's the yardstick, but it's the yardstick that see's all of the charisma, ability and natural talent you have and ignores it to give you their terrible 'IT'S SUCH GOOD SHIT' version of it, pal. That's why it shouldn't be a yardstick anymore, you move to the main roster and your dead in the water.

[Deanjam]

It's churlish to give the credit for Moxley's star power to WWE. Did anyone give a shit when Ryback was released? Or Swagger? Or any number of guys. He was always over with the crowd in WWE despite some goofy booking and he's engineered tonnes of interest in his rebirth with his self-funded promotional video and his super-charismatic appearance at DoN. His backstage skit at Dominion that I posted earlier was more entertaining that any of WWE's sketches that they wrote for him. The lad's a star. No doubts

[Delete Delete Delete]

The Shield made all 3 of its members Household faces for life. WWE did that, the indies didn't. To the main stream audience The Shield was the first time they had ever heard of him, I know I hadn't.

Don't let your fandom of the indies over hype everything. Its easyer to have one or two sucessful events, but to do that over a number of years is a different story. 5-10 years down the line will AEW be training their own stars or just creaming the top Indie talent like NXT does?

[Timothy]

The Shield made all 3 of its members Household faces for life. WWE did that, the indies didn't. To the main stream audience The Shield was the first time they had ever heard of him, I know I hadn't.

Don't let your fandom of the indies over hype everything. Its easyer to have one or two sucessful events, but to do that over a number of years is a different story. 5-10 years down the line will AEW be training their own stars or just creaming the top Indie talent like NXT does?

Yeah, this.

And Ryback and Swagger (especially Swagger) were nowhere as big of a name in WWE as Ambrose was.

[Deanjam]

Ryback and Swagger were pushed in main events but didn't catch on. Ambrose did. That's the point. The SHIELD boys got a push and were able to make themselves stars with it when others failed.

Don't let your fandom of the indies over hype everything.

I have no fandom for the Indies. I watch more WWE than anything. I see nothing wrong with giving credit for success to the talent themselves.

[Delete Delete Delete]

Deanjam Loves Indies!

[Deanjam]

Deanjam Loves Indies!

With all my cock.

[Spode]

WWE's Dean Ambrose v Kenny Omega at All Out. Not hanging round are they?

[Timothy]

Moxley VS Omega
Jericho VS Hangman Page

And no Punk.

So far not that interesting imo. Looking forward to the rest of the card.

"Last year something with All In that we noticed is that at the actual show there wasn't a single CM Punk chant," Rhodes said. I thought, 'Great, okay. It's not that they don't like Punk but they know that we're here and we're putting on this show.' This year I don't expect anything different. I've been very honest about that door remains opened. The fans have never given up on CM Punk and if he wanted to be part of AEW we would do everything in our power to make him part of it.

Rhodes continued: "That door will forever remain open to CM Punk. He was very good to me in OVW. He was a great person to learn from in the ring. I had a good relationship with him. That door will remain open, but for All Out the main focus for me is Hangman Page and Chris Jericho to determine the very first AEW World Champion."

[An Actual Propeller]

And no Punk.

Why would there be?

[Ja'moke]

How is Moxley v Omega not interesting?

I can't wait for that match. Very interested to see how their styles mesh.

[Timothy]

Not a fan of Moxley and Omegas last matches werent as good as his work in NJPW. Still intrigued but dont have to watch it live.

[up_the_hampipe]

Timothy really is the heel of this thread.

[hummingofevil]

As someone who never saw anything of Jon Moxley pre-WWE and who found him almost universally boring in WWE I found has 5 minutes at Dominion the most entertaining thing he has ever done by a mile. No idea how the creative worked but in getting himself over as a bit of an unhinged bad-ass who will do crazy things and be someone you root for but not sure how far to trust him (is he grooing Umino to be his friend or is he going to abuse him? Who knows) he did more in one opening match than he did in years. Was it his fault or was literally everything he explained about Vince and WWE holding them back the truth.

On a related note Jake Hagger is another one who is utterly charming in real life when interviewed. Another one who was never allowed to let it show. I really hope he makes something of his MMA career.

---

I do wonder about how deep the WWE talent think they can go with jumping ship mind. The real interesting thing will be when people leave WWE and don't go to AEW or NJPW. That is when you know they are screwed. WWE also has a huge advantage with the depth and quality of it's women's roster.

So, men only for now, guys who I think would transition to AEW or NJPW and be big stars in their own right and it not have a negative impact on making them too WWE-like.

- Obvious realistic ones.

Luke Harper
Chad Gable
Most of 205 roster for Super Jrs TBF.
The Revival
Lio Rush
Rey


- Guys who could and should revert to pre-WWE characters/style for reboot

Sami (El Generico's return would get the biggest pop in any crowd every - I'm calling it now)
Danielson (even more than DBs)
Seth Rollins
Cesaro
Joe
Drew McIntyre
Balor

- Guys that AEW/NJPW shouldn't touch with a barge poll.

Randy
Strowman
AJ Styles (oo controversial - back to NJPW could be good though)
Reigns
Any of the part-timers
Sheamus
Dolph
NWJ
New Day (and I like the New Day)

Anyone else I have forgotten as I'm bored.

- I'm undecided

Kevin Owens (Steen would be cool at first - needs to get fat again first)
Usos
Anderson and Gallows
Mojo

- And the wildcard of them all

Brock. A redemption Brock storyline in NJPW could be amazing but I do think it might be more for the none Japanese fans. You know it would be good though.

[Timothy]

I would love to see Shelton Benjamin, Chad Gable, Johnny Gargano and Velveteen Dream jump ship to AEW. Think they would be a great addition. Maybe also Wyatt?

As a Benjamin fan I think he is underused in WWE. Really hoped he would get to do more when they brought him back.

[Ja'moke]

WWE also has a huge advantage with the depth and quality of it's women's roster.

WWE do have an amazing women's roster, but they don't do anything with most of them. Asuka is one of the best wrestlers in the world, and where is she? Why isn't Ember being pushed? Why are the tag titles such an afterthought?

AEW has a solid foundation for their women's roster right now. They just don't have a well established name - Sasha joining would obviously give them a huge boost, but her WWE contract still as years left on it. But I think within 6 months to a year AEW's women's division will be thriving, especially once they have TV to build the characters. I was already impressed with what I saw out of Kylie Rae, Brit Baker and Riho at DoN. And they've just signed Sadie Gibbs, plus Tenille Dashwood is a free agent.

Sami (El Generico's return would get the biggest pop in any crowd every - I'm calling it now)

Sami is too good to go back to that gimmick. Not only is he great on the mic, but his face tells such a story during his matches, especially when playing the underdog.

[Mobius]

https://mobile.twitter.com/DanaWarriorWWE/status/1139201713427111937?s=20

I hate this company so much

[hummingofevil]

https://mobile.twitter.com/DanaWarriorWWE/status/1139201713427111937?s=20

I hate this company so much

It's their Boris Johnson moment. Gone so far beyond taking the piss that they are just intentionally outing themselves now. Still it gave Twitter Meltzer a few more opportunities to be funny as fuck. I've always found Dave funny but didn't realise he could be intentionally so. Bravo.

As for women Ja'moke I agree with you entirely. I think AEW has some excellent women on there and if they can leverage themselves as the place to be for the best of Joshi and not waste them it will a huge factor in pushing them to a huge new audience*. WWE's waste of women's talent is genuinely shameful.

*I am learning Japanese (very slowly) and one of the things you realise is quite how many learners have no interest in living in Japan but just want to watch anime and read manga and like J-Pop (and occasionally Joshi). What you get with these kids is that they are really passionate about their fandoms (it's that reclaimed Otaku - nerd culture) and I genuinely think there is a huge audience for genuine Joshi in US/non-Japanese culture. Those women are more over than most wrestler anywhere in the world in their small subcultures (god I hope it is not ALL pervy middle aged men) but if they can get Hiraku or Yuka (or even better bring in Maki Itoh who I fucking love - she is not the best in ring mind) and they will have a whole new audience. **

**Maybe it is a bit too much of stretch but I've just come back from Primavera and whilst they didn't actively promote the festival to young women and gay guys they just booked a load of ace, brilliant women on the line-up and they came. I was genuinely suprised by the demograph of the audience. And it was a really lovely experience. I really wonder if AEW could do the same. Don't ram it down people's throats but just go with their inclusive approach, book really good women into really good programs and see what happens.

[Moribunderast]

The latest Road To Fyter Fest video on Cody's YouTube channel features an absolutely awesome Darby Allin promo/introductory video. Shows where AEW might really excel in production, getting guys and feuds over with profile videos that are unique to them. Simple and yet creative and, just like with the Rhodes Brothers' various vignettes, very effective.

[greenman]

Wrestling is a capitalist art and WWE has been the best at that pecuniary aspect and will be for the next half-decade. That's why they're the yardstick. I haven't enjoyed their television since the botched Invasion angle 18 years ago, and only sporadically engaged with PPVs. People enjoy scale in respect to wrestling; people laugh when I say that Zero1 was as good as New Japan in 2013/4, but it was, but no one was watching it so who gives a fuck. Tree falling in the woods.

To be fair really good quality wrestling tends to build up a following even if it wasn't watched much in the west at the time, All Japan, New Japan Jnr's, All Japan Women, Minchinoku pro, etc from the 90's

[peanutbutter]

It's their Boris Johnson moment. Gone so far beyond taking the piss that they are just intentionally outing themselves now. Still it gave Twitter Meltzer a few more opportunities to be funny as fuck. I've always found Dave funny but didn't realise he could be intentionally so. Bravo.

Is this just people who never read the observer and only knew him from audio?

Pretty sure historically the observer has always been stuffed with snarky jokes. If David Bixenspan's podcast is anything to go by it's remarkable that he's adapted his sense of humour to work so well in the modern era too (lots of cancellable ones).

[An Actual Propeller]

AEW has a solid foundation for their women's roster right now. They just don't have a well established name

Doesn't get more established than Aja Kong.

[Ja'moke]

Doesn't get more established than Aja Kong.

True. I was going to mention the Kongs (Aja and Awesome), but they are older and most likely special attractions. Not full time wrestlers they can build a division around.

In other news, All Out sold out in 15 mins.

[Deanjam]

They best call the next one All About.

[BeardFaceMan]

Isnt the point that AEW want to be the place where stars are established? We wont know who the established stars are that they build a division around until we watch them doing it.

[hummingofevil]

I know there will be bots and multiple log ons but I have seen  one image with 60,000 people trying to buy tickets for All Out. Multiply that by x4 for number of tickets (and then divide again by the multiple log-ins, bots and touts) but that is one popular show. They would be absolutely daft in my opinion to go TOO big at this point as don't want it to affect the quality of the shows but that is taking the piss really. Would love to see them running in unique and interesting venues. Thinking about it Craven Cottage would make sense for a London show. Old school vibes of classic boxing at proper old football grounds.

BeardFaceMan I agree about AEW. They will build stars and have some very good women wrestlers. I am undecided whether I would want a Sasha Banks there. I would be going all out for the Impact Women mind. Tessa and Jordanne are both ace in their different ways.

Ohhh.... In MUCH BIGGER NEWS there are rumours Gedo has stepped aside from booking NJPW. That would be interesting if true.

[BeardFaceMan]

How long do you think AEW will leave it until they try and book a show at Madison Square Garden? And would MSG now tell WWE to go fuck themselves if they did try?

[Ja'moke]

Isnt the point that AEW want to be the place where stars are established? We wont know who the established stars are that they build a division around until we watch them doing it.

Yep, that's what my original post was about. :)

BeardFaceMan I agree about AEW. They will build stars and have some very good women wrestlers. I am undecided whether I would want a Sasha Banks there. I would be going all out for the Impact Women mind. Tessa and Jordanne are both ace in their different ways.

I want Sasha there because she's one of my personal favourites, and I think she is capable of so much more than what she's currently doing (well, she's currently sitting on a beach somewhere, but you know what I mean). I'd kill to have the NXT "Sasha's ratchet!" Boss version of Sasha back. I think unleashed and heeling it up in AEW she could be massive. And now I want to see Sasha v Riho just to see whose spine would snap first (not really, but I want to see them wrestle because I think it'd be ace).