Author Topic: Fancy a playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas?  (Read 1837 times)

St_Eddie

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Re: Fancy a playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas?
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2019, 07:05:22 PM »
Apologies - I wasn't trying to assign that opinion to you, but clarifying that I can accept the existence of such an opinion.

I wasn't trying to argue that New Vegas is better than 3 (although I think regarding its main quest, it's hard not to simply because of how nonsensical 3's ends up), but that they are very different. I think that, despite being implemented using much the same tools, and sharing many assets, NV and 3 have very distinct identities.

I mean, I also think it's difficult to meaningfully say "It's just like the Elder Scrolls" without thinking about the change that the Elder Scrolls has also gone through. I think that 3 and 4 mirror that progression whatever you think of it, but that New Vegas is clearly out of kilter with that direction.

To each their own, I suppose.  All I can say is that I think that the 3D Fallout games are, in essence, Oblivion/Skyrim with a lick of paint; Sci-Fi No. 2 over the old coat of Fantasy No. 3, but obviously your millage may vary.

Ultimately, the reason why I commentated in the first place was because within this thread, just like with any thread discussing the Fallout games on the Internet, the question being asked was 'which is the best Fallout game?  Fallout 3 or New Vegas?'.  It just bothers me a bit that Fallout and Fallout 2 never seem to be given any kind of consideration when asking that question, despite being the most unique and deep games of the entire series.  They just get automatically discounted, as though they don't even exist, which I find to be something of an injustice.

Re: Fancy a playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas?
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2019, 07:56:38 PM »
Unfortunately they don’t exist... on console. Whereas 3 and NV - and expansions - are backwards compatible on Xbox One and Xbox One X.

Zetetic

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Re: Fancy a playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas?
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2019, 08:33:23 PM »
the question being asked was 'which is the best Fallout game?  Fallout 3 or New Vegas?'.  It just bothers me a bit that Fallout and Fallout 2 never seem to be given any kind of consideration when asking that question, despite being the most unique and deep games of the entire series.
Part of it is probably that perhaps it's not terrible useful to consider them as part of the same 'series' - sure, they're (mostly) building off a common setting and they're role-playing games but the actual experience of operating the interface and all that is so radically different from 2 to 3. (And not just because 3 is a Bethesda-game. I think I'd say the same about GTA2 to GTA3.)

Comparing 3 to NV is perhaps more interesting to people because they're clearly so similar in the most basic mechanics of their interactions and presentation (and ever more so as they age and the common hideousness becomes a bit more difficult to ignore!). This is certainly partly why I want to defend the idea that they're really quite different - I think it's a testament to the NV lot that they managed to put together something that, to me, does feel quite different despite the common, limited toolset.

But then I get wound up by people talking about Far Cry as if there's a coherent 'series' there from 1, to 2, to the rest so I should probably calm down about the whole idea of a series.

Mister Six

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Re: Fancy a playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas?
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2019, 08:45:04 PM »
SPECIAL character creation system = Taken from the first two games and in terms of your actual gameplay experience in the 3D games, makes little difference.

Except for how it changes pretty much every interaction in the game, particularly in NV, which improved stuff like dialogue options and interactive objects.

Also completely different to the Oblivion/Skyrim system of starting off with a blank slate and passively accruing skills through repetition, which is the point.

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PERKS/TRAITS = I'll grant you this.  Again though, it comes from the first two games, so it hardly elevates the experience above the 2D games in the series.  It does differentiate it from The Elder Scrolls though, I'll give you that one.

Good, because that's the only argument here. I'm not saying it makes the games better than the originals (a meaningless comparison in gameplay terms, given how different they are) I'm saying you're talking shite when you say "There's fuck all difference between (the Elder Scrolls and Fallout games), other than superficial stuff."

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IMPROVED RANGED COMBAT = Hahahaha.  Good one.  Oh, you were being serious?

NV's iron sights and VATS make ranged combat far more user-friendly than the Elder Scrolls games, in which archers were fucked unless they were sniping. Also, again: quality aside, it's different from ES.

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THE FACTIONS = Yeah, I guess.  Not a huge game changer though, is it?  It adds replay value more than anything.

Different. "Gameplay changer" is a meaningless term that you've just introduced.

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BRANCHING QUESTS AND PLOTLINES = Nah.  You're really reaching with this one.  It's just The Elder Scrolls in essence.  I really don't think that the quests and plotlines are noticably different between the two series.  I'd go as far as to say that they're more or less exactly the same.

Cool, just showing your ignorance then. The Fallout games have much more reactive and flexible worlds. No unkillable NPCs (except the kids) and the level of redundancy and cause-and-effect in NV massively outstrips, say, Skyrim's two faction threads, which were the same things, more or less, with the enemies wearing different clothes.

Here's a breakdown of a minor sidequest in  NV. Nothing in Oblivion or Skyrim comes even slightly close.



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The same problems that are in The Elder Scrolls and not just because they share the same game engine.  Curious, no?

Yeah, what are they then? Not that they will justify the absurd claim that the two series' games are the same.

St_Eddie

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Re: Fancy a playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas?
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2019, 08:54:28 PM »
I still think that the 3D Fallout games are fundamentally the same as the latter Elder Scrolls games.  That's my feeling when playing them.  They don't feel unique and no amount of flow charts is going to change that.

Mister Six

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Re: Fancy a playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas?
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2019, 09:20:46 PM »
I'm sad to say that your feelings are objectively wrong.

St_Eddie

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Re: Fancy a playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas?
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2019, 09:26:51 PM »
I'm sad to say that your feelings are objectively wrong.

You don't understand how the whole objective/subjective thing works do you?

To clarify; you were able to objectively refute a few of my criticisms.  I can't argue with that, such is the nature of objectivity.  However, that has nothing to do with feelings.  Feelings are subjective.  Objectively, quite a few of my complaints have been successfully refuted.  Subjectively, the objective truth does not alter my feelings on the matter.  One's feelings can't be objectively wrong.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 09:38:10 PM by St_Eddie »

St_Eddie

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Re: Fancy a playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas?
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2019, 09:39:20 PM »
Unless you were joking, in which case fair enough.  To be honest, I can't remember if you were one of the people on this forum arguing against objectivity in art in the past.  I interpreted your comment as a dig alluding to that argument.  If I was wrong in that assumption, then I apologise.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 10:15:46 PM by St_Eddie »

Re: Fancy a playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas?
« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2019, 09:48:37 PM »
Cannae be arsed with the whole argument about Fallout 1&2 vs subsequent games. I game to the series via Fallout 3 and enjoyed it a lot, but New Vegas was a whole different level of gaming enjoyment for me, which in part explains why F4 was such a huge disappointment. The only thing I'd count against it is the stunt casting of Matthew Perry.

Re: Fancy a playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas?
« Reply #39 on: March 13, 2019, 09:48:48 PM »
Barry, can we ban the words "objective" and "objectively"? From life, I mean.

St_Eddie

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Re: Fancy a playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas?
« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2019, 10:12:04 PM »
The only thing I'd count against it is the stunt casting of Matthew Perry.

The crazy thing is that Matthew Perry had previously stated what a huge fan of Fallout 3 he was, which is why he was approached to voice Benny in New Vegas.  Yet, his performance is completely flat and he sounds entirely uninterested.  You'd have thought that he might have been a bit more enthused to be voicing a key character in the follow-up to one of his favourite games.  The only explanation I can think of is that he received piss poor direction in the studio.  That does happen a lot in the world of videogame voiceovers.  "Here's the script.  Read it."
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 10:25:48 PM by St_Eddie »

St_Eddie

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Re: Fancy a playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas?
« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2019, 10:17:21 PM »
Barry, can we ban the words "objective" and "objectively"? From life, I mean.

Barry, can we ban madhair60?  From life, I mean.

(love you really, madhair60)

Re: Fancy a playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas?
« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2019, 10:53:52 PM »
The crazy thing is that Matthew Perry had previously stated what a huge fan of Fallout 3 he was, which is why he was approached to voice Benny in New Vegas.  Yet, his performance is completely flat and he sounds entirely uninterested.  You'd have thought that he might have been a bit more enthused to be voicing a key character in the follow-up to one of his favourite games.  The only explanation I can think of is that he received piss poor direction in the studio.  That does happen a lot in the world of videogame voiceovers.  "Here's the script.  Read it."
Oh aye, I'd read he'd dug Fallout 3, so I just put his shite showing down to either bad direction and/or lack of talent. I mean, could he beeeeeee any less of a future gangster?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 11:46:14 PM by The Culture Bunker »

St_Eddie

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Re: Fancy a playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas?
« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2019, 11:44:02 PM »
Oh aye, I'd read he'd dug Fallout 3, so I just put his shite showing down to either bad direction and/or lack of talent. I mean, could he beeeeeee any less of a future space gangster?

The other possible explanation is that he went a little too method for the role and prior to recording his lines, took several hits of jet.  I mean, it is Matthew Perry we're talking about.

Re: Fancy a playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas?
« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2019, 11:51:13 PM »
The character creation is great in New Vegas, and I loved that it gives you yet another chance to change your build after you’ve finished the tutorial area, and are ready to move on. There are so many perks and options that it does feel overwhelming, but the interview with the doctor is a neat way of navigating it.

Its neat, then I bash his face in and go on a rampage.

St_Eddie

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Re: Fancy a playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas?
« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2019, 12:32:30 AM »
Its neat, then I bash his face in and go on a rampage.

Same thing happened last time I saw my GP.

Mister Six

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Re: Fancy a playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas?
« Reply #46 on: March 14, 2019, 12:39:41 AM »
Unless you were joking, in which case fair enough.  To be honest, I can't remember if you were one of the people on this forum arguing against objectivity in art in the past.  I interpreted your comment as a dig alluding to that argument.  If I was wrong in that assumption, then I apologise.

Oh no, I was on your side on that one. I'd actually forgotten about that.

To be honest I was being too cunty there. I was just overly irritated by your tone in here, which comes across as a bit cooler-than-thou and dismissive, especially when Neil started it off sounding so enthusiastic about the game.

So sorry about that. I do think that your initial point about Fallout and ES being the same is bollocks, mind.

St_Eddie

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Re: Fancy a playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas?
« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2019, 12:47:35 AM »
Oh no, I was on your side on that one. I'd actually forgotten about that.

In which case, I apologise.  I'm sorry.

I was just overly irritated by your tone in here, which comes across as a bit cooler-than-thou and dismissive, especially when Neil started it off sounding so enthusiastic about the game.

As I said, I like New Vegas.  It's a good game.  I was too irate in my tone, I agree.  It was born from years of pent up annoyance at Fallout and Fallout 2 being giving the snub in every discussion about the series on every forum on the Internet ever.  It was unfair of me to take it out on this thread but I just finally snapped and it all came spilling out.  I certainly wouldn't want to sour Neil's enthusiasm.  I'd care to hear of what he thinks, should he replay it.

I do think that your initial point about Fallout and ES being the same is bollocks, mind.

I disagree.  I think that they are very similar in a lot of ways.  It's not worth arguing over though, so whatever.

Mister Six

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Re: Fancy a playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas?
« Reply #48 on: March 14, 2019, 04:02:32 AM »
I do think Fallout 2 is great though. Especially if you just chin the guard at the start and fuck off the stupid temple altogether.