Author Topic: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"  (Read 1710 times)

alan nagsworth

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This was covered somewhat in the CC thread on ContraPoints' latest video, largely because of how succinctly she snipers Gervais' bullshit on people being too offended all the time, but I dunno, I felt like more could be discussed on the matter.

Is it alright to say what you like, where you like, when you like? Well, is it cunt?

Do you think it's alright for "safe spaces" to exist, such as pockets of friends hanging out in private - all of whom are liberal minded enough to know what is a joke without offending one another - where such offensive humour can take place without fear of it affecting the wider world and spreading negativity?

Alternatively, do you reckon it's alright for massively famous people who are (or were) known for their comedic prowess to use their gigantic platform to make fun of things they've never experienced personally, like transgenderism or homosexuality, and shrug it off as "it's a JOOOOKE BLOODY HELL! Don't get your knickers in a twist love!"?

Or do you reckon that sort of thing encourages the groupthink mentality that it's okay for anyone to act like that wherever they want? Especially if those large groups are, for example, straight men finding security in the fact that they're a lot less easy to offend because they haven't had to endure a lifetime of persecution? Comedy is undoubtedly the most quoted type of media in the world, from stuff on the screen to stand-up to the modern day meme. Quite fucking blatantly when you get up on stage and say these things, you're normalising negative behaviour.

This week, Dave Chappelle faced a bit of backlash because he called rising talent Daniel Caesar's performance on John Mayer's live stream "very gay". Caesar took him to task on it (and so he should) until eventually Chappelle somehow manages to get away with it by subsequently praising the guy's talent and admitting he's drunk. Caesar concedes on the stream he was "being hella sensitive".

Am I the only one who thinks this is bollocks? I already have little respect for Chappelle given that his jokes on transgenderism in his recent comeback special, coupled with this crap, show that he's stuck in the past and arguably becoming irrelevant as a result of it. But here we have what appears to be a man with huge fucking clout essentially pressuring someone into backing down on an issue. Take a joke, Daniel Caesar! He's only ridiculing homosexuals worldwide with an off-the-cuff drunken slur!

I imagine if I walked out of a pub pissed up and saw Dave Chappelle and shouted "Yo, Dave! Me and my n****** LOVE your shit! You got any weed, bro?" he'd probably get a bit miffed, but quickly concede to being a little snowflake bitch moments later. Yeah, that stuff definitely swings both ways, doesn't it?

Honestly, if people think the world is "getting too sensitive" just because innocent people from all walks of life are increasingly able to walk outside without fear of persecution or humiliation, then those people can fuck off to another planet, preferably without the necessary equipment. How hard is it to learn to adapt and alter your sense of humour - one measly facet of the wonderful spectrum of human expression - to make your fellow man feel a lot better? I expect it's a lot easier than living your life in fear of abuse but hey it's best not to think about that!
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 10:27:08 PM by alan nagsworth »

rue the polywhirl

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Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2019, 07:07:34 PM »
Ceased dude probably was being a bit oversensitive. ‘Gay’ is just a common expression, not necessarily a slur. You’d have have cancel most of historic South Park otherwise and that would be pretty gay.

BritishHobo

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Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2019, 07:15:51 PM »
Ceased dude probably was being a bit oversensitive. ‘Gay’ is just a common expression, not necessarily a slur. You’d have have cancel most of historic South Park otherwise and that would be pretty gay.

Nah, that's weak. It being a common expression and it being a slur are not mutually exclusive things.

St_Eddie

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Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2019, 07:17:56 PM »
Ceased dude probably was being a bit oversensitive. ‘Gay’ is just a common expression, not necessarily a slur. You’d have have cancel most of historic South Park otherwise and that would be pretty gay.

If 'gay' is used as a negative, then it's a slur.  It implies that there's intrinsically something wrong with being gay.  It certainly wouldn't hurt to use a different word to describe something that you don't like.

alan nagsworth

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Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2019, 07:23:56 PM »
It isn't a cancelworthy slur but it is a slur and something we should be actively moving away from.

Besides, in the specific context of South Park (which, as an aside, is a bit embarrassingly misogynistic in the early seasons) isn't it used for deliberate offence because "oh my goodness, I can't believe these 8 year old cartoon characters are saying those things"? Dave Chappelle is saying it because he thinks it's okay for him to say whatever he wants. You can argue it's part of his act or character or whatever but at this point I really don't think that's an acceptable excuse.

BlodwynPig

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Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2019, 07:27:00 PM »
we ≠ me

rue the polywhirl

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Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2019, 07:34:17 PM »
Slurs are normally targeted directly at a person and their personage . If it’s the performance that is being labelled as gay then that falls slightly outside the realms of a slur.

alan nagsworth

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Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2019, 07:46:30 PM »
Slurs are normally targeted directly at a person and their personage . If it’s the performance that is being labelled as gay then that falls slightly outside the realms of a slur.

That makes no sense. "Gay" is a slur that is most commonly used against someone/thing a person finds weak, effeminate, or overly sentimental, based on their prejudiced views which exist against actual gay people. In bold, there's three things I've stated which the slur could be also used for if an artist's performance is deemed so. The two are linked, so it never stops being a slur.

One of the three terms I said, "weak", is also something that can be used as a dig, but it's harmless outside of its own meaning. In this instance, Chappelle could have just as easily said "it was fuckin' weak" and it doesn't unnecessarily bring any target groups into the thing at all. Because why should it?

Norton Canes

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Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2019, 08:36:24 PM »
Ceased dude probably was being a bit oversensitive. ‘Gay’ is just a common expression, not necessarily a slur. You’d have have cancel most of historic South Park otherwise and that would be pretty gay.

Politely, fuck off.

South Park's 8 year old child characters use it because that's what 8 year olds say. Yes, the writers have some problematic homophobic material, but they have had some disagreeable political views too. South Park is enjoyed widely, despite the fact it is occasionally that way because it's a treasure trove and because you shouldn't be petty and immature enough to shitcan something absolutely just because it occasionally lets you down.

Gay in a pejorative sense has never and will never be acceptable because labelling anyone anything intended pejoratively is by definition, a slur. Use it by all means but face up to the response you get when you do.

Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2019, 08:45:39 PM »
um yeah gay as a pejorative in early South Park. that's what kids said then. I think it was absurdly sent up in the episode (It was Chickenlover, S2, god how do I remember this) where they go through a library shelf and declare books "boring, boring, gay, boring". Why is that one gay? It's just a pointless superlative that has no meaning. Ha haaaa. Also Ayn Rand is terrible, best pay-off you could wish for.

Was Big Gay Al's Big Gay Boat Ride progressive for 1997? Um. Maybe a bit.

Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2019, 09:53:22 PM »
Take the n-word out of the OP and I agree with everything you said. I don't really think white people should use that any more no matter the context. That's the conclusion my POC friends have impressed upon me. That said, I'm not having a go. It's just something I'm extremely aware of because a couple of my best mates are POC and they slaughtered me for listening to ASAP Rocky and Ice Cube in the car.

In general, I think intent and context have to be considered very carefully but the world seems to be too binary and impatient and reactionary for that at the moment. Not sure I like the implications. I'm more of a forgiver than a persecutor. Not really one for a pile on or shooting fish in a barrel. I can imagine the appeal, though. It must be empowering. I'm happy to call a cunt a cunt but I also accept that people make mistakes despite their best, most respectful intentions.


Edit: This is not saying DC's comments are to be waved away with an apology  I'm speaking about more innocent mistakes than deliberate disrespect.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 10:05:47 PM by The Boston Crab »

Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2019, 10:06:01 PM »
Edit bug.

Danger Man

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Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2019, 10:11:41 PM »
Lovely bit of Chinese self-criticism there, TBC.

Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2019, 10:13:44 PM »
Not sure I follow!

Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2019, 10:20:35 PM »
I hear you're a RACIST now The Boston Crab!!!

Danger Man

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Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2019, 10:21:48 PM »
Oh well.

The funniest thing is that you are using the term POC which is currently in fashion but will look about as hip as 'negro' in a few years time.

alan nagsworth

  • hired goons?
Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2019, 10:26:50 PM »
Take the n-word out of the OP and I agree with everything you said. I don't really think white people should use that any more no matter the context.

My girlfriend pointed that out to me when I showed it to her before posting it (I don't start threads like this any more but the whole thing really pisses me off), and yet for some reason I still included it. I guess it doesn't really embellish what I said, point taken.

Hey, Punk!

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Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2019, 10:32:19 PM »
Oh well.

The funniest thing is that you are using the term POC which is currently in fashion but will look about as hip as 'negro' in a few years time.

Not exactly equivalent though, are they? The only thing they'll have in common is that they aren't used anymore.

Danger Man

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Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2019, 10:34:22 PM »

Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2019, 10:34:56 PM »
Oh well.

The funniest thing is that you are using the term POC which is currently in fashion but will look about as hip as 'negro' in a few years time.

to be mildly serious (oh-ho im MAd me) the "of colour" thing isn't intrinsically superior to calling someone "coloured". But for now: firstly, it isn't connected to language used in the Jim Crow laws of racial segregation in the mid-century USA, and secondly it implies that the people themselves are declaring their colour rather than someone else.
It still carries the baggage of difference and exclusion but as long as non-white people are a social minority in the global west it makes sense.

Some people don't mind it, others are a bit umm, but no one finds it offensive so whatever.

Don't be Amber Rudd and take us back to the 1950s though or you're in for a world of shit. Or apparently nothing because our country is a sack of crap

Danger Man

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Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2019, 10:37:59 PM »
I'm mixed-race (or a POC) and I find it offensive,

The Boston Crab takes his opinions on race from POCs he knows so now he'll have to do the math.

POCs who like being POCs minus a POC on this forum who doesn't like being a POC.


What will the final score be?


Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2019, 10:41:56 PM »
No, I just don't understand the 'Chinese' bit, DM. I understand exactly what you're saying about that term.


My girlfriend pointed that out to me when I showed it to her before posting it (I don't start threads like this any more but the whole thing really pisses me off), and yet for some reason I still included it. I guess it doesn't really embellish what I said, point taken.


I understand from friends that it's more of an issue if it rolls off the tongue than appears in text but I obviously can't speak for anyone who would have the right to be offended. Anyway, as I say, I'm no persecutor. It's not my place to decide what's right or wrong. Just raising the question. Not surprised you'd already given it some deserved thought.

Danger Man

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Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2019, 10:44:57 PM »
N"""""" is worse than n**gers because with the former we have to stop and work out what the bad word is. It takes longer and makes a more lasting impression on our delicate minds.

And if that doesn't win the argument, it's exactly what the Daily Mail does.

Danger Man

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Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2019, 10:45:50 PM »
No, I just don't understand the 'Chinese' bit, DM.

A reference to the Chinese self-criticism sessions of the 1960's and 70's. I was trying to lighten the mood!!!!

alan nagsworth

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Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2019, 10:46:47 PM »
what an odd man you are

Danger Man

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Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2019, 10:49:32 PM »
what an odd man you are

I'm certainly not like you.

Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2019, 11:01:54 PM »
I'm mixed-race (or a POC) and I find it offensive,

Well I hate it and I hardly ever use it personally, but it's there so we white folks dont slip into the "I dont see colour, dont see what the fuss is about" yet there's institutional bias against people of a, uhh, funny ti...?! oh arrGgghhhh

Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2019, 11:03:13 PM »
I guess all this just goes to show that it's not a ticket to pick at other people who don't know what's up like I'm so sure I do.

Danger Man

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Re: I can say what the fuck I want mate because here, watch this: "joke!"
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2019, 11:06:44 PM »
Here's the hot take.

Race doesn't exist (although skin color does)

It's still birth school work death whatever anyone else says.

And money and class will always be more important than skin tones and their current names.

And Nagsworth will always be a thick cunt, but he's our cunt.