Remember lads, subscribe to PewDiePie or Christchurch Mosques Shooting

[ajsmith2]

The thing is, from the start it was a bunch of nerdy white guys throwing around racist and misogynistic slurs. It operated in a weird time on the internet in the early 2000s when people seemed to act like racism was no longer a thing, and so ironic racism could never be mistaken for real racism - because we all knew nobody was actually racist anymore. But no matter what, it was a website that punched out at black people, at women. Even if purportedly as a joke, it didn't stop it being just a fucking cesspit of bigoted shit. It was the start of an internet culture that's seeped out and become an enormous part of real-world culture, where it's cool to act with no empathy, and totally coincidentally that energy is almost entirely directed at non-white, non-straight, non-male people.

I'm not even sure what I'm saying. Fuck me.

I do. Good post.

[idunnosomename]

Islamic State videos were never transmitted to this degree. Although they were on liveleak etc they weren't on mainstream media for more than a few seconds whereas this has been weirdly, simultaneously stamped out in its full version from even those sort of fringe sources but also partly shown in sensational clips by the tabloids. Exposing people to it could potentially radicalise copycats. The way he makes it like a game. With fucking theme music. It's truly frightening.

I usually try and always go towards potential forgiveness for even the most heinous crimes, but this tries my deepest clemency. Guy could prostate in genuinely pious humility for a thousand years and he'd still be a disgusting fuck who destroyed scores of lives. I've seen the disdain he held human life in through his Gopro and let me tell you, I'm shook to the core a human being can behave like this.

[BillyNoNames]

Yeah, I just don't think he's anything more than a bit of an edgelord, but don't want to get too into defending him, again. I think there's plenty of blame to go around, and there are far more significant and influential targets than Pewdiepie, and to focus on him is to miss the real problems with internet culture, and the way people interact with it.

The deindividuation that takes place, the dehumanising of people, and the inherent rubbish tribalism of human beings has all brought out the worst in people, and I don't think there's any way we can go back. This shooter wore a GoPro on his head so he could film and stream the whole thing from his point of view, as if it was a video game or porn. He was so callous and distanced that he apparently went round "double tapping" everyone, ie putting rounds into people a second time to finish them off as they lay dying and pleading. Even seeing the phrase "double tap" today horrified me. The causal nature of it, the slang. It's a perk in "Call of Duty", and I'm not sure I ever realised the derivation of it before. "Tap" - such a gentle word to be used for the deliberate and methodical ending of a life.

I think the focus needs to be a lot motherfucking broader than some YouTuber who was invoked as a meme. I'm frequently surprised by how society seems to have changed - and how that seems to be directly because of the internet. Like I saw a story a few days ago, Luke Perry's 18-year old daughter was calling out trolls who "grief-shamed" her for acting in certain ways after her dads death. And I'm just frequently astonished at how distant and unempathic people seem to have become - that they can sit ranting at a young woman like that all day long on their Twitter or instagram feeds.

This cunt today was just pure internet. The meme songs he used, the phrases etched on his weapons etc... it's just shocking. A lot of the reaction is pre-canned too, I saw countless "he's white so he'll be called a lone wolf" memes when I looked on twitter earlier. When do we actually start to look at the deeper issues that are causing this kind of aberrant behaviour and mindset? When do we begin to actually tackle them?

What the Internet has given me a better awareness of is that, when it suits them, people must rather enjoy taking on a likeness of actual psychopathy alongside having a very tactical sense of empathy and a predatory acuity for rooting out other people's inconsistencies. I wish I could work it out, but it's far too exhausting and depressing.

[biggytitbo]

I know there's the whole "don't watch it" thing going round but I'm sorry I need to see what Nazis are doing so I can fucking destroy them so I did. god the worst part is, as you say, but let me spoiler it anyway when he goes back in and shoots the piles of dead bodies for anyone pretending to be dead. That he learnt this from a video game is horrific but not going into the culture war he wants. There's one guy who launches him the first time round and very nearly takes the gun off him but fails, what a hero. Another bona fide trigger warning because this is particularly horribleone woman in the gutter crying for help but he shoots her in the head then runs his car over her Apparently he did drive to the second mosque across town, but Facebook cut his account during his "Gas Gas Gas" drive. And there apparently someone in the mosque managed to get hold one of his firearms and see him off.

NAZI PUNKS FUCK OFF

This is a disturbing post in itself.

[idunnosomename]

oh i dont even know anymore. cancel me. I probably shouldn't have watched it. but fucking cancel the actual Nazis too please

[biggytitbo]

If you watch murder videos you're probably going to get upset and angry, I don't know what else you'd expect. Why do you do it to yourself?

Anyway, it's pewdiepies fault, it's the internet's fault, its youtube's fault, its brexits fault, it's obviously Putin's fault:



Amongst the countless handwringing editorials and empty political platitudes blaming the usual easy scapegoats, let's just forget the deeply ingrained, institutional Islamophobia in our mainstream culture, media and politics.

[Barry Admin]

I'm aware that the shooter repeatedly referred to Muslims as "invaders" in his manifesto, so am fucking staggered to see what Trump has said while talking about this massacre:

He went on to say that, domestically, he was taking action to "restore our national sovereignty and defend this nation from criminal cartels, human traffickers and drug smugglers, crime of all kinds coming through our southern border and other places". He said:

People hate the word 'invasion', but that what it is. It's a invasion of drugs and criminals and people who have no idea who they are, but we capture them because border security is so good, but they're put in a very bad position. We're bursting at the seams, literally bursting at the seams. What border patrol is able to do is incredible.

He's also downplayed suggestions that white nationalism is a growing concern. Piece of shit.

[buzby]

The way he makes it like a game. With fucking theme music. It's truly frightening.

I've not seen it (and have no desire to) but from what I have read the music he used is The British Grenadiers, an old British Army fife and drum marching song (also known as the theme tune to the ITV army drama Soldier, Soldier). A curious choice for an Australian. It might be purely coincidence, but I can remember it was used as the 'victory theme' at the end of the British Expeditionary Force level in Call Of Duty: World At War

[Rizla]

I'm aware that the shooter repeatedly referred to Muslims as "invaders" in his manifesto, so am fucking staggered to see what Trump has said while talking about this massacre:

Yep, just seen that. This is literally like a living nightmare isn't it? Dystopian Time Trumpet.

[Urinal Cake]

The difference between mainstream media and Internet alternatives is that the mainstream rarely hide their contempt in irony or a joke and/or advocate violence.

[Hank Venture]

The notion of "the media shouldn't talk about the perpetrator" almost makes sense, except if it didn't there'd be no examining his motives, his thoughts, etc. All completely worthless shit, of course, but it should be thoroughly anchored to Ben Shapiro, Dave Rubin, Stefan Molyneux and whoever else makes a living off peddling bigotry to disenfranchised psycho losers. The whole alt-right and Quillette crowd should be forced to reckon with the cultural climate they help create and maintain. This monster is their guy.

[idunnosomename]

I've not seen it (and have no desire to) but from what I have read the music he used is The British Grenadiers, an old British Army fife and drum marching song (also known as the theme tune to the ITV army drama Soldier, Soldier). A curious choice for an Australian. It might be purely coincidence, but I can remember it was used as the 'victory theme' at the end of the British Expeditionary Force level in Call Of Duty: World At War

No I know the tune. It heralds British imperialist troops: it's an alt-right meme in that regard. It's deployed in aid of white supremacy.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

The notion of "the media shouldn't talk about the perpetrator" almost makes sense, except if it didn't there'd be no examining his motives, his thoughts, etc. All completely worthless shit, of course, but it should be thoroughly anchored to Ben Shapiro, Dave Rubin, Stefan Molyneux and whoever else makes a living off peddling bigotry to disenfranchised psycho losers. The whole alt-right and Quillette crowd should be forced to reckon with the cultural climate they help create and maintain. This monster is their guy.

spot on

[Barry Admin]

Yep, just seen that. This is literally like a living nightmare isn't it? Dystopian Time Trumpet.

I don't know what to say about it, it beggars belief. It can't be a coincidence, surely it can't? For the killer to refer to immigrants as "invaders" and for Trump to use the exact same language hours later... it's just extraordinary, particularly when he's referenced in the manifesto he says he hasn't read.

Invasion, an invasion. "Bursting at the seams." Today of all days. I'm gobsmacked. Horrified.

[idunnosomename]

I'll give him that, Trump's very good at being an utter cunt

[Moribunderast]

Shocked and furious and saddened as I was yesterday, after a night's sleep I think I've woken up even moreso. As Barry mentioned, the fact the guy was "pure internet" is so utterly disturbing to me. I've long held certain sections of the chan website and similar cesspits with complete scorn but seeing it leak out into the real world with such damaging repercussions has done my head in. It's like a horror movie where the monsters crawl out from the TV screen and enter the real world. I think a part of me has always tried to justify those online areas with the idea "It's probably mostly kids who don't know better yet" but no - it's adults, raised in a post-9/11 islamophobic culture who've spent years joking themselves into genuinely-held vile opinions to the point where they'll celebrate as one of their own enacts the grisly "lulz". This is a genuine "Shut it down, we've fucked it," moment for me. I don't know how society recovers from social media and the internet age and the disconnect and de-humanity is seems to have created.

Look after yourselves and each other, everybody. I'm gonna go to an anti-racism protest/vigil and try to remember there are people around that aren't completely fucked. Kinda feel like I should just disconnect my modem and put it in a drawer for a week.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

yeah this is absolutely the kind of thing that makes me want to log the fuck off

[jobotic]

Fuck it, again. Agree about the need to log off.

[rue the polywhirl]

The notion of "the media shouldn't talk about the perpetrator" almost makes sense, except if it didn't there'd be no examining his motives, his thoughts, etc. All completely worthless shit, of course, but it should be thoroughly anchored to Ben Shapiro, Dave Rubin, Stefan Molyneux and whoever else makes a living off peddling bigotry to disenfranchised psycho losers. The whole alt-right and Quillette crowd should be forced to reckon with the cultural climate they help create and maintain. This monster is their guy.

I'm not sure about all of that. I don't know about the other 2 but I'm pretty sure Ben Shapiro doesn't go around advocating killing sprees. This crazy NZ killer is supposed to represent all of alt right and internet whereas ISIS attacks don't represent all of Islam (which of course it shouldn't).

[Kelvin]

I really think people here are reading too much into the meme stuff. These people often style themselves in the trappings of whatever outsider media they've become unhealthily obsessed with - we've seen it time and time again with video games and films - yet for some reason, because he adopts trashier elements of the internet, it's somehow different, more alarming, than all those previous psychos and their morbid fascinations; Basketball Diaries, Clockwork Orange, Marilyn Manson, etc.

edit; quick clarification; I draw a distinction between meme culture, and the actual sincere hate speech of the alt right

[Barry Admin]

I don't want to get anyone's back up but is the Wanking Monk still able to post? We've got one of them here and they need shutting the fuck down.

Yes, I've been thinking about this all night. I saw your (redacted) post saying it was a "test" right after he'd made his post, before I'd even had a chance to disgest what he'd said. Clearly he's a cunt, but I'm still unsure about banning him. Does that achieve anything? Is there a chance we can talk him out of being a cunt? Would that be better than pushing him away from a liberal forum? For starters, I know from this very thread that what he said about 'ISIS calling for retaliation' is evidently incorrect, so that could be corrected.

Anyway as I say, I've given it a lot of thought tonight, and don't have all the answers, or particularly know what to do. Most of these people just come straight back when you ban them these days.

[idunnosomename]

his meme sheen is only really like the columbine killers being like nihilistic Neo badasses. It's tissue over the real issue, but still disturbing, I agree

[jobotic]

Yes, I've been thinking about this all night. I saw your (redacted) post saying it was a "test" right after he'd made his post, before I'd even had a chance to disgest what he'd said. Clearly he's a cunt, but I'm still unsure about banning him. Does that achieve anything? Is there a chance we can talk him out of being a cunt? Would that be better than pushing him away from a liberal forum? For starters, I know from this very thread that what he said about 'ISIS calling for retaliation' is evidently incorrect, so that could be corrected.

Anyway as I say, I've given it a lot of thought tonight, and don't have all the answers, or particularly know what to do. Most of these people just come straight back when you ban them these days.

I often do react and then think better of it. I apologise for the "test" comment. Appreciate your thoughts above.

[Buelligan]

yeah this is absolutely the kind of thing that makes me want to log the fuck off

I think what's more important perhaps is to stand firm.  Stand up for compassion, love, empathy, every single time. 

Every time someone shuts the fuck up and backs down because they're scared the bigger boys will rip the piss, every time they stand back and let heartless cunts set the agenda, the world gets a little darker.  All of us can stop that just by living a bit stronger from now on. 

Stand up for love, cunts.  Stand up for Love.

[jobotic]

his meme sheen is only really like the columbine killers being like nihilistic Neo badasses. It's tissue over the real issue, but still disturbing, I agree

It is different though, even to Breveik. It's the fact he did it, partly at least, to impress his little mates, who cheered him on that I find so horrifying. Like anyone I guess.

[Moribunderast]

I really think people here are reading too much into the meme stuff. These people often style themselves in the trappings of whatever outsider media they've become unhealthily obsessed with - we've seen it time and time again with video games and films - yet for some reason, because he adopts trashier elements of the internet, it's somehow different, more alarming, than all those previous psychos and their morbid fascinations; Basketball Diaries, Clockwork Orange, Marilyn Manson, etc.

edit; quick clarification; I draw a distinction between meme culture, and the actual sincere hate speech of the alt right

I may be forgetting elements of previous massacres but weren't the things you've mentioned (Marilyn Manson, especially) just things the media BLAMED for the massacres as opposed to hobbies/obsessions the killers outwardly portrayed as they killed? I don't remember a massacre where the killer was blaring Manson music or claimed in a manifesto that South Park made him do it, etc. That's the difference for me - it's not that it's a trashier element of the internet, it's that the whole thing seems conceived from the first moment of planning all the way through the (unfortunate word) execution as a means of entertainment and celebration for that online sector. As I say, I may be forgetting times where killers have overtly linked themselves to specific music or games or films but that generally seems to be what the media does. In this case, it was all him.

[idunnosomename]

From what I could tell from skimming that shit-show forum, I don't think he was really well known on 8chan. He just launched his stream there. And he wouldn't have been able to read their comments.

Well we'll see if any accomplices get charged along with him. At least one case is cut n shut. In the jail, basically forever.

[Wanking Monk of Kefalonia]

Yes, I've been thinking about this all night. I saw your (redacted) post saying it was a "test" right after he'd made his post, before I'd even had a chance to disgest what he'd said. Clearly he's a cunt, but I'm still unsure about banning him. Does that achieve anything? Is there a chance we can talk him out of being a cunt? Would that be better than pushing him away from a liberal forum? For starters, I know from this very thread that what he said about 'ISIS calling for retaliation' is evidently incorrect, so that could be corrected.

Anyway as I say, I've given it a lot of thought tonight, and don't have all the answers, or particularly know what to do. Most of these people just come straight back when you ban them these days.

If I'd tried to justify this event or made a sick joke about it then the knee jerk profanity laden responses and calls for me to be banned might be reasonable, but as I didn't, then they aren't. You could just address the point and explain why you disagree.

[Kelvin]

I may be forgetting elements of previous massacres but weren't the things you've mentioned (Marilyn Manson, especially) just things the media BLAMED for the massacres as opposed to hobbies/obsessions the killers outwardly portrayed as they killed? I don't remember a massacre where the killer was blaring Manson music or claimed in a manifesto that South Park made him do it, etc. That's the difference for me - it's not that it's a trashier element of the internet, it's that the whole thing seems conceived from the first moment of planning all the way through the (unfortunate word) execution as a means of entertainment and celebration for that online sector. As I say, I may be forgetting times where killers have overtly linked themselves to specific music or games or films but that generally seems to be what the media does. In this case, it was all him.

In several of the killings I mentioned above, the killer dressed or behaved in a way that was linked to the media they watched. That media didn't create them, but the killers were clearly inspired by and modelling themselves on ideas from those works. I think it's wrong to blame those works for an unhealthy and warped obsession that a psychopath develops with them, though.

[Crisps?]

I'm not sure about all of that. I don't know about the other 2 but I'm pretty sure Ben Shapiro doesn't go around advocating killing sprees. This crazy NZ killer is supposed to represent all of alt right and internet whereas ISIS attacks don't represent all of Islam (which of course it shouldn't).

No, but they do represent their particular brand of Islam, just as this guy represents his ideology, far-right, racist internet culture.

The Nazis were just the end result of what everyone else was up to at that time, white supremacy, anti-Semitism, eugenics, imperialism, nationalism, authoritarianism, anti-Communism. This attack is the end result of right-wing "free speech", scapegoating and lack of gun control.

Maybe the video should be compulsory viewing so everyone knows exactly who and what they're encouraging by spewing hate and racism (Islamophobia). If they want to carry on after seeing what it leads to, at least they can't live in denial about what it is they're part of.