Remember lads, subscribe to PewDiePie or Christchurch Mosques Shooting

[pancreas]

In some ways though, this is a distraction. Let's blame this shit on some figureheads we're already comfortably opposed to.  This isn't about Johnson's letterbox-pissing, that's just a symptom, it's about all of us nodding through the idea that some people aren't real.  That it's OK to laugh at terrible things or entertain ourselves with them.  That you can't make an omelette.  It's on all of us.  The time has passed for pointing and looking elsewhere.

Opposed as I am by the antisemitism smear factory, seeing this as an opportunity to whatabout really is fucking depressing.

I half agree and half disagree. Neoliberalism and capitalism want to divide people, so there can be haves and have-nots. That is my diagnosis of the root disease you tacitly refer to. Recognising that the MSM—and most of parliament—is entirely onboard with this is definitely important.

[Blue Jam]

This is like the most terrorist thing imaginable. It's supposed to have maximum exposure and effect. I think this is the turning point where people stop thinking of Islamist terrorism as the "default"

I'm not so sure. I've already seen people describe the shooter as a "lone wolf" and speculate that he may have had mental health issues, as happens with all white terrorists. On the other hand, it's getting harder for people to deny that these people are terrorists being radicalised by the Alt-right.

[Pdine]

The alt right are something different entirely,  mostly born from Gamergate in 2014. A bunch of lost, forgotten NEETs angry at the world and thinking Muslims and SJWs are to blame for them being utter losers basically

As much as we cringe at JP (because why not drag another controversial name into it) I'm sort of feeling he may have a purpose when it comes to giving these people an alternative that involves personal responsibility rather than blaming everyone else

I think the Alt Right are broader than that. You have the entire neo-traditionalist, Evola-ist lot for a start,

[The Culture Bunker]

It's that this Australian senator prick called it "vigilantism" that stood out to me. That's almost defending it as "a bit extreme, but basically the right thing to do"

[Crisps?]

I'm trying to remember at one point things pivoted, because I'm sure during the George Bush, war on terror era, the kind of right wing we;re talking about here, the 'alt-right' I suppose, and 9/11 truthers like Alex Jones, were very defensive of Muslims and were at the forefront of the argument that they were been scapegoated to pursue middle east wars etc. But at some point during the last 10 years or so this has totally changed 180 degrees, for reasons I can't discern.

Can you give some examples of Alex Jones or anyone else on the far-right being "very defensive of Muslims"? (More than as a byproduct of 9/11 being an inside job or having a Libertarian stance against foreign intervention.)

[Moribunderast]

I'm not so sure. I've already seen people describe the shooter as a "lone wolf" and speculate that he may have had mental health issues, as happens with all white terrorists. On the other hand, it's getting harder for people to deny that these people are terrorists being radicalised by the Alt-right.

I mean, I know the people saying these things are likely beyond debating with but how can one argue it's a "lone wolf" when others are currently also in custody? Now, maybe they'll be released and turn out to have nothing to do with the crime but that remains to be seen. You'd think people might wait for facts before they try and form their excuses. Wait a minute, why would I ever think that?

[Buelligan]

As much as we cringe at JP (because why not drag another controversial name into it) I'm sort of feeling he may have a purpose when it comes to giving these people an alternative that involves personal responsibility rather than blaming everyone else

He doesn't have a purpose (other than to be a fucking hateful cunt).  People need to man the fuck up and stop looking for daddy to do it for them.  I say that with compassion but I'm very tired of these people needing some cunt to figurehead for them.  Your figurehead, your guiding fucking light is your conscience, your compassion, your milk of fucking human kindness, suck it up.

[Urinal Cake]

The Australian terrorist does not seem like a NEET. He was a fitness trainer and according to his female supervisor was good at his job and volunteered. Then he made some money through cryptocurrencies which he used to travel the world- North Korea, Europe etc.

I haven't read his whole manifesto but there seems to be a bit of unreliable narrator in the bits I've seen. He says he grew up in poor but unremarkable circumstances but his father died from abestos related disease when he was finishing high-school. Further his family is 'well-known' in the (rural) area which usually  means his family had large farming interests, had political influence  or were notorious criminals. 

[idunnosomename]

I'm not so sure. I've already seen people describe the shooter as a "lone wolf" and speculate that he may have had mental health issues, as happens with all white terrorists. On the other hand, it's getting harder for people to deny that these people are terrorists being radicalised by the Alt-right.

I've only listened to BBC Radio today and they were even referring to the potential grouping as a "cell". I think it's impossible he did this on his own isn't it? I don't know yet if he drove to the second mosque and did the shootings there. I'm actually really impressed with their coverage on this (not often I think that) and also how much the video is being stamped out everywhere, by everyone.

Wonder if anyone will tweet up claiming blocking sharing the video violates free speech soon?

[Flouncer]

What the fuck is 8chan? Is it like 4chan, but precisely twice as edgy?

[brat-sampson]

8chan is what was formed after 4chan took the extreme measures of banning child pornography and other *extreme* extreme material/discussion.

8chan has no such qualms.

[Theremin]

8chan is what was formed after 4chan took the extreme measures of banning child pornography and other *extreme* extreme material/discussion.

This.

What the fuck is 8chan? Is it like 4chan, but precisely twice as edgy?

So yes, exactly.

[Moribunderast]

8chan is what was formed after 4chan took the extreme measures of banning child pornography and other *extreme* extreme material/discussion.

8chan has no such qualms.

I'm quite ignorant of how those sites function but, legally, how does 8chan still exist when it is widely known as a place one can find child pornography images? That seems insane to me.

[Paul Calf]

It's probably located in a jurisdiction where they're less fussy about that sort of thing.

[Flouncer]

What, like Vatican City?

[Monsieur Verdoux]

the manifesto was riddled with references to 'birth rates' and Lauren Southern, the popular fascist YouTuber, has now quietly deleted her video about 'The Great Replacement'.

[Cloud]

8chan banned CP after they got (temp) banned from the Google index.  But that's their only red line, they allow everything else, including incitement of mass murder.  Primarily they sprung up when even 4chan got sick of the gamergate shit and started clamping down on it

[Glebe]

Fucking awful stuff. Nutcase.

[Danger Man]

8chan is what was formed after 4chan took the extreme measures of banning child pornography and other *extreme* extreme material/discussion.

8chan has no such qualms.

I just had a look at 8chan and the first thing I saw was a disgusting thread about Gamergate

[biggytitbo]

Is there a 16chan or is that Graham Linehans twitter feed?

[idunnosomename]

the manifesto was riddled with references to 'birth rates' and Lauren Southern, the popular fascist YouTuber, has now quietly deleted her video about 'The Great Replacement'.

well that's a start I suppose

[Kryton]

I've visited 8chan exactly twice. Once last night to try when this attack was occurring and I wanted to find out more about it and the other time was just after it was reported those two Scandinavian girls were raped and beheaded by those muslim terrorists in Morocco.

Both times the comments sections have left me feeling completely chilled and despairing at the world. The alt-right were almost gleefully celebrating the fact that the girls had been beheaded, simply so they could have some fuel to fire up their own personal hatred. I remember one comment saying 'if those girls hadn't been leftists, then I'd have felt sorry for them, but it's their own fault for visiting muslim countries, what did they expect?' and other very similar comments.

The shooters twitter feed was full of links to attacks by muslims / rapes/ child abuse / war crimes etc- so you can see how he may have been easily persuaded by the likes of 8chan to further inflame his own agenda.


I wonder how Trump is going to react to being name-dropped by this guy?

[bgmnts]

Your figurehead, your guiding fucking light is your conscience, your compassion, your milk of fucking human kindness, suck it up.

That comes from something though, be it an institution or an individual. You need someone to tell you right from wrong during those formative years.

[Buelligan]

No you don't.  You don't slip out from under like that.  Each human being knows what pain is, if they choose to inflict it, they know precisely what they're doing.

ETA: If you'd known my dad, you'd understand why I'm so unwaveringly certain about this.  And that I pity him now for his weakness.

[idunnosomename]

The people cheering him on online are perhaps more terrifying. We can all fathom one madman, the serial killer run amok, but hundreds of potential madmen sitting in their rooms watching him with glee? its just. There are people who can watch this video of someone actually driving calmly with loads of guns in their boot, playing Serbian nationalist tunes, and then shooting up innocent people, live on Facebook, and actually type "LOL"

If that's not the result of brainwashing and radicalisation what is? Humans don't behave like that by default. I like to think. Unless they're broken.

[bgmnts]

No you don't.  You don't slip out from under like that.  Each human being knows what pain is, if they choose to inflict it, they know precisely what they're doing.

ETA: If you'd known my dad, you'd understand why I'm so unwaveringly certain about this.  And that I pity him now for his weakness.

My mum defied my grandparents and turned into the good person who she inspired me to be but there needs to be something. Some influence in your life. I'm sure of it.

[PlanktonSideburns]

MailOnline is hosting the killer's manifesto as a downloadable document and the Sun has made bloody GIFs from the video

Media orgs can cry me a river, they need burning to the ground and their staff put in jail

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Kudos to The Sun for "Livestream Slaughter", finding a new low to stoop to.

[Cloud]

The people cheering him on online are perhaps more terrifying. We can all fathom one madman, the serial killer run amok, but hundreds of potential madmen sitting in their rooms watching him with glee? its just. There are people who can watch this video of someone actually driving calmly with loads of guns in their boot, playing Serbian nationalist tunes, and then shooting up innocent people, live on Facebook, and actually type "LOL"

If that's not the result of brainwashing and radicalisation what is? Humans don't behave like that by default. I like to think. Unless they're broken.

Radicalisation and the echo chamber effect.  No one in their right mind who's not a Nazi would post in 8chan's /pol/ as they'd just get completely thrashed and chased off if they didn't top themselves from depression first (no one in their right mind would visit 8chan at all, but I have some degree of morbid curiosity about these sites and subreddits), and their leftists while they do exist are segregated in their own /leftypol/, so they just echo and amplify each other in increasing levels of awfulness.  I don't know what we can do about it, sadly.  They need to get outside and meet other people, but they're not - they hide away in basements getting an increasingly warped and dehumanised picture of others.

[Cloud]

My mum defied my grandparents and turned into the good person who she inspired me to be but there needs to be something. Some influence in your life. I'm sure of it.

Bit of a philosophical question really.  One could argue that's how and why religion came to be - unfortunately it causes just as many problems as it solves