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March 28, 2024, 03:36:43 PM

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Once Upon a Time in Hollywood

Started by Wet Blanket, March 20, 2019, 02:35:01 PM

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Bad Ambassador

I just checked to make sure it's the same one I read. It is. I can totally believe that someone as lacking in empathy as Tarantino would write that, and that others would go along with it.

PlanktonSideburns


Lord Mandrake

Some lass gets her feet out then some talking then some people get shot.

bgmnts

Quote from: Lord Mandrake on July 22, 2019, 06:53:46 PM
Some lass gets her feet out then some talking then some people get shot.

Does someone use the N word gratuitously?

PlanktonSideburns

N word tattooed on the soles of some feet?

Native Americans behead Abe Lincoln?

Bad Ambassador

According to the critic for the AV Club, the actual ending bears no resemblance to what's on Wiki. So the mystery still lives.

For those who can't be bothered looking: DiCaprio and Pitt's characters team up with Bruce Lee to rescue the kidnapped Tate from Manson, the latter being killed in a one-on-one with Lee. Tate survives and is fine.

You can understand why some people might be upset.

Goldentony

In a sense you can, but fuck me that's so amazingly shit. Proper Bruceploitation. Hope that's what happens.

Bad Ambassador

Apparently it is just a load of bollocks, but coming from Tarantino it's so believable...

Glebe

Quote from: mr. logic on March 21, 2019, 02:07:57 AMReservoir Dogs is his best film. It's weird because as huge as it was, it seems almost forgotten now, despite being perfect.

Yeah, as dazzled as I was by Pulp Fiction, I still preferred Reservoir Dogs, and I still feel it's his most solid film.

Quote from: Wet Blanket on March 21, 2019, 02:48:35 PMI thought Basterds was terrible, apart from the opening scene, and the best example of a Tarantino movie that would have benefited from some restraint. Because that opening scene really is the bees knees - he does indeed know how to ratchet up the tension.

I just watch it again on Prime Video, that opening scene is one of Tarantino's best, I don't think the rest of the film is terrible or anything but it meanders off on it's wacky way and doesn't quite satisfy in the end. Christoph Waltz deserves all the praise he received for that threatening, hilarious performance, of course.

Also watched some of Kill Bill Vol. 1 again on Netflix, really not a fan of some of the unpleasant misogynistic stuff in that... meanwhile, just clocked this article doing a wee Google:

End of the affair: why it's time to cancel Quentin Tarantino.

sponk

Surely there's significantly more violence against men than women in his films.

popcorn

Quote from: Glebe on July 25, 2019, 12:45:39 AM
End of the affair: why it's time to cancel Quentin Tarantino.

I found that article astonishingly basic. Like the person had just gone "women get hurt in this films, he said some dodgy things = cancel".

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: popcorn on July 25, 2019, 02:54:19 PM
"women get hurt in this films, he said some dodgy things = cancel".

Not that I like Tarantino or most of his films (if he should be cancelled for anything it should be blatant plagiarism), but that's basically the world we live in now.

Glebe

Still not seen Death Proof, actually.

Mister Six

Hm, let's have a think:

Reservoir Dogs: Male cop gets his ear lopped off then shot dead, male robbers all get shot to bits. One woman bystander is shot for her car.

Pulp Fiction: Male thieves get shot dead; male gang boss gets raped; male rapists get killed/tortured; male gangster men get shot dead; one woman has an OD and gets injected in the heart, but is fine.

Jackie Brown: Bunch of male gangsters get shot dead, some of them by female lead. One woman moll gets shot dead by a man.

Kill Bill Vols. 1 and 2: Three female assassins get killed; the crazy Japanese schoolgirl killer gets stabbed; the English lass loses an arm; the Bride gets shot and almost raped but then she kills/maims all the aforementioned women; a prostitute is seen with a scarred face. BUT The Bride also kills Bill (obv), a bunch of male Yakuza lads, some old kung fu master cunt, Michael Madsen, her attempted rapist and probably some other blokes too.

Death Proof: Aye, a bunch of women get killed, but then another bunch of women kill the bloke, so???

Inglorious Basterds: The woman who runs the theatre sacrifices herself to burn the Nazis, and a waitress dies in the cafe scene. Also there were some women serving popcorn in the theatre so I guess they died too. OTOH roughly a squillion men get killed, including most of the Basterds, and Christoph Waltz gets his forehead carved up.

Django Unchained: Django's missus gets whipped and possibly raped. Django shoots the slave master's sister. I think that's it? And then a squillion more men die.

The Hateful Eight: The lass who runs the hotel dies, as does her female cook. Jennifer Jason Lee gets lynched. Somewhere in the region of 20 men, including possibly the entire male cast (if Sam Jackson and Walton Goggins' characters are presumed to have died) get killed.

So aye, the Guardian article is talking bollocks. The only film that seems suspect really is Death Proof, and that has the context of the rest of his directorial output against it.

popcorn

The violence count is definitely more against men than women, but even that is sorta beside the point. The Guardian columnist can't make this argument based on "how many times a woman gets hurt", or whatever. It's ridiculously reductive.

Quote from: Mister Six on July 26, 2019, 04:12:26 AM
So aye, the Guardian article is talking bollocks. The only film that seems suspect really is Death Proof, and that has the context of the rest of his directorial output against it.

Death Proof is a simple morality story about a crass, vain Hollywood man who preys on women, and three smart, funny women who fucking kick his arse and have fun doing it. It's the last film in the world you'd want to use to demonstrate Tarantino's sexism.

This has caused me to dig up a 2009 Guardian article making the case for Tarantino films and women. I agreed with this bit at the time and I still think it's right:

QuoteAs for Death Proof, if you haven't seen the version with Vanessa Ferlito's lapdance, you've missed out; it's the opposite of demeaning, and a celebration of the female physique with a proper belly and bottom. Only a director who really likes women could film them like this.

Bad Ambassador

Now that the film's actually showing in the US, the actual ending is known and it's nothing like the one previously described...
The Family break into DiCaprio's house instead, but they are beaten off and killed by him and Pitt.

Which isn't quite nearly as offensive, but it still feels... unpleasant.

PlanktonSideburns

ONCE UPON A TIME UP NORTH

Would quite like to see Guy Richie/Ben Weatley do a north-slpoitation retelling of the moors murders, ending with someone playing Peter Wyngarde saving the day in some sort of leather jumpsuit/neckerchief combo. Soundtrack by broadcast or some of the ghost box guys

SteveDave

Quote from: Bad Ambassador on July 26, 2019, 02:13:36 PM
Now that the film's actually showing in the US, the actual ending is known and it's nothing like the one previously described...
The Family break into DiCaprio's house instead, but they are beaten off and killed by him and Pitt.

Which isn't quite nearly as offensive, but it still feels... unpleasant.

I preferred the fake version to them being beaten off. Didn't know it was that sort of film.

mr. logic

Do people really seek out and then read the endings to films? Doesn't that completely ruin it?

PlanktonSideburns

DEATH ACTUALLY

Richard Curtis bangs out a knockabout farce about all them suicides in bridgend

Quote from: mr. logic on July 26, 2019, 09:26:39 PM
Do people really seek out and then read the endings to films? Doesn't that completely ruin it?
I did, because I'm not going to be able to get out to the cinema to see this and multiple reviewers had claimed that the ending was an absolutley astonishing piece of WTF madness. I was actually wondering if it was going to be something like an animated version of the Beatles attacking people with guitars while singing Helter Skelter, which I suppose is not a million away from the fake 'Bruce Lee' ending reported above.

nw83

Just seen it, and think it's Tarantino's best film - his masterpiece, really (until now, I thought Reservoir Dogs was his best film, and most of the others had great scenes and were entertaining but flawed, apart from Kill Bill Vol 2, which I hated).

It has a lot of heart, pathos and humour, and one scene in particular (at the Spahn ranch) is as tense as anything as he's made before. LA looks great in it. I wouldn't change a scene in it, despite my earlier fears that it might be too meandering.

I thought the ending was brilliant, although - very slight spoiler - lots of the East Asian audience I was among didn't know the real story, so seemed to think it was too excessive.

Lord Mandrake

Quote from: Mister Six on July 26, 2019, 04:12:26 AM


Inglorious Basterds: The woman who runs the theatre sacrifices herself to burn the Nazis, and a waitress dies in the cafe scene. Also there were some women serving popcorn in the theatre so I guess they died too. OTOH roughly a squillion men get killed, including most of the Basterds, and Christoph Waltz gets his forehead carved up.


Waltz also murdered the spy/actress, in quite a pervy way.

Mister Six

So was Chinatown a bit shit in the Tarantinoverse?

Thought it was great fun. Instant reaction is that it's a bit of a frippery, largely due to that ending, but that it might be his best film since Jackie Brown. I think I need to digest it properly though.

I loved it too. There was a scene about midway through that was one of the tensest I've ever felt watching a film. And I think it takes incredible skill to pull off that ending

Going from the nerve-pounding tension of thinking the history change will be that Pitt and DiCaprio will get massacred and then flip it to some insanely funny ultraviolence and even have the balls to have Leo pull a fucking flame thrower out of his arse. The fact I was laughing with it, rather than at it, is jusst wonderful

phantom_power

You can accuse Tarantino of lots of things but I don't think misogyny is one of them. He is one of the few male directors that actually has prominent female roles in lots of his films, certainly in the genres he works in. I imagine his films pass the Bechdel test more than most directors and his female characters are rarely identikit or cliche female characters, or "strong and sassy" caricatures.

popcorn

Look at Zoe Bell's character in Death Proof. It is an insufferable character, once of Tarantino's lowest ebbs, but you can tell he fucking loves Zoe Bell.

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: phantom_power on July 29, 2019, 09:53:14 AM
You can accuse Tarantino of lots of things but I don't think misogyny is one of them. He is one of the few male directors that actually has prominent female roles in lots of his films, certainly in the genres he works in. I imagine his films pass the Bechdel test more than most directors and his female characters are rarely identikit or cliche female characters, or "strong and sassy" caricatures.

I would agree with all of that, and I'm one of his biggest critics on CaB.

sponk

Quote from: Mister Six on July 26, 2019, 04:12:26 AM
Hm, let's have a think:

Reservoir Dogs: Male cop gets his ear lopped off then shot dead, male robbers all get shot to bits. One woman bystander is shot for her car.

Pulp Fiction: Male thieves get shot dead; male gang boss gets raped; male rapists get killed/tortured; male gangster men get shot dead; one woman has an OD and gets injected in the heart, but is fine.

Jackie Brown: Bunch of male gangsters get shot dead, some of them by female lead. One woman moll gets shot dead by a man.

Kill Bill Vols. 1 and 2: Three female assassins get killed; the crazy Japanese schoolgirl killer gets stabbed; the English lass loses an arm; the Bride gets shot and almost raped but then she kills/maims all the aforementioned women; a prostitute is seen with a scarred face. BUT The Bride also kills Bill (obv), a bunch of male Yakuza lads, some old kung fu master cunt, Michael Madsen, her attempted rapist and probably some other blokes too.

Death Proof: Aye, a bunch of women get killed, but then another bunch of women kill the bloke, so???

Inglorious Basterds: The woman who runs the theatre sacrifices herself to burn the Nazis, and a waitress dies in the cafe scene. Also there were some women serving popcorn in the theatre so I guess they died too. OTOH roughly a squillion men get killed, including most of the Basterds, and Christoph Waltz gets his forehead carved up.

Django Unchained: Django's missus gets whipped and possibly raped. Django shoots the slave master's sister. I think that's it? And then a squillion more men die.

The Hateful Eight: The lass who runs the hotel dies, as does her female cook. Jennifer Jason Lee gets lynched. Somewhere in the region of 20 men, including possibly the entire male cast (if Sam Jackson and Walton Goggins' characters are presumed to have died) get killed.

So aye, the Guardian article is talking bollocks. The only film that seems suspect really is Death Proof, and that has the context of the rest of his directorial output against it.

Exactly. I'd love to see the author of that article try to respond to this. What can their justification possibly be?

Mister Six

She would probably have just replied with this meme:



Anyway, having thought about it I'm still undecided about whether the ending kills or makes the film for me. On the one hand building up the suspense, leading to the gnawing feeling that these likeable guys are going to fucking die on the last night of their friendship (or at least that one of them will die and the other be left ruined), then going for wacky ultraviolence really paid off, and the whole cinema was laughing with delight from the moment the tin can hit his attacker in the nose.

On the other, it kind of reduces everything that came before into the preamble to a shaggy dog story, particularly as it turns DiCaprio's rather pleasant, vulnerable naive guy into someone who can flamethrow a screaming woman to death and then go for a party with his neighbours without apparently much in the way of shock, remorse or horror. Feels like the world that's been created up to that point has disappeared and been replaced with a big, daft cartoon.

In either case, the effect is diminished a bit by Tarantino having pulled the exact same trick with Inglourious Basterds.


Still an ace film though.

Quote from: worldsgreatestsinner on July 28, 2019, 04:57:48 PM
I loved it too. There was a scene about midway through that was one of the tensest I've ever felt watching a film. And I think it takes incredible skill to pull off that ending

Going from the nerve-pounding tension of thinking the history change will be that Pitt and DiCaprio will get massacred and then flip it to some insanely funny ultraviolence and even have the balls to have Leo pull a fucking flame thrower out of his arse. The fact I was laughing with it, rather than at it, is jusst wonderful

Not completely out of his arse - it is visible (and pointedly placed towards the centre of the screen) when someone (Pitt?) goes into the shed earlier in the film.