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March 28, 2024, 05:40:42 PM

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Once Upon a Time in Hollywood

Started by Wet Blanket, March 20, 2019, 02:35:01 PM

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Puce Moment

I feel completely mystified having now seen it. I thought it was easily the most pointless and artless films Tarantino has ever made. I knew going in that he would not feature much Polanksi, and that he would find a way to avoid the Tate murder by doing his wacky Basterds alternative timeline stuff. But I just thought this was a colossal snooze-fest. At places it dragged so badly that I could not equate it with how I normally feel watching bad Tarantino films. The Hateful Eight was shite but fun, but this seemed utterly flimsy. I'm struggling to see what others are finding in this that is so interesting.

I have also noticed that Di Caprio is super quiet in all the roundtables, interviews and Q&As and now I just think he doesn't like the film. I know I'm probably wrong, and it's because of carrier bags in the oceans, but I think seeing the final cut of that would have left me deflated.

SavageHedgehog

It's a bit like going round to someone's house for an evening, and ultimately all he does is show you a three hour playlist of stuff he likes from the 50s and 60s, and it's pleasant enough although you kind of wish he'd have a bit more to say. Then at the end of the evening he shows you a video that makes you wonder about him a bit.

Dr Rock

SPOLIER





Chekhov's flame-thrower, ha.

fake edit - that came to me as I watched it, but google shows I'm not the only one.

I reckon the Bruce Lee fight is a bit related to them talking about who would win out of Bruce Lee and Cassius Clay, as people often argue about, with Tarantino suggesting it wouldn't be a walkover for Lee if a stuntman can hold his own against him, but then it wasn't a full on fight so there isn't a conclusive answer.

Loved Pitt, but as usual did not find DiCaprio much fun to watch most of the time, would've preferred someone else in that part.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: Puce Moment on August 16, 2019, 04:26:36 PMI have also noticed that Di Caprio is super quiet in all the roundtables, interviews and Q&As and now I just think he doesn't like the film. I know I'm probably wrong, and it's because of carrier bags in the oceans, but I think seeing the final cut of that would have left me deflated.

That's just how he is, I think.  I saw him do a Q&A after The Revenant and it was exactly the same.  Mumbled answers about the movie, recited some dialogue about climate change and then stared at the floor for the rest of it.  I'd imagine, having been a Hollywood actor since childhood, he's probably not especially bright and probably hasn't got much of a personality of his own and is conditioned to err on the side of not saying too much.

druss

Not sure what to make of that. There were some great scenes but it all felt quite disjointed. Looked great as usual of course and unlike others I thought Leo was great, particularly in scenes where he acts like an actor who is low on confidence acting and then later acts as an actor who is on his game acting.

Puce Moment

Quote from: druss on August 17, 2019, 05:52:53 PM
Not sure what to make of that. There were some great scenes but it all felt quite disjointed. Looked great as usual of course and unlike others I thought Leo was great, particularly in scenes where he acts like an actor who is low on confidence acting and then later acts as an actor who is on his game acting.

Yeah, I like the man a great deal - for me he rarely puts in bad performances, and he works as the actor out of time.

I assume we are supposed to assume that Polanski would never have raped that girl, would have lived happily with Tate, and cast Di Caprio in one of his movies as a career-booster just like Tarantino does himself. Am I totally off here? I'm struggling to give a fuck but may have to see this twice to get some idea of what people like about it.

Something that irritated me and kind of lost the film for me a bit was the overhead tracking shot at one of the parties. It was woeful. Shit cinematography is not something I expect from Tarantino, but maybe it was a reference to Blackula vs Mothra or something.

Dr Rock

And I assume Manson would still get caught by the cops in this universe, though he would probably never have got anywhere near his level of infamy or lifetime in prison.

McFlymo

Shit for cunts, then?

Saw posters for this on the side of buses, didn't realise it was Tarantino until seeing this thread. Meeeeehhhhhhhh.... I have just about put up with his last 3 or 4 films. Not terrible, but diminishing returns. Don't know if I could be fucked with this.

I didn't find it funny and thought the ending was crap, but there was still stuff in this I really enjoyed. The whole section at the Family's base was great, especially the guy in the room and the bit leading up to that.

Dannyhood91

Well I liked it so much I beat up three teenagers on the way home. One of them might even be dead.

Mister Six

Quote from: Puce Moment on August 17, 2019, 07:49:11 PM
Something that irritated me and kind of lost the film for me a bit was the overhead tracking shot at one of the parties. It was woeful. Shit cinematography is not something I expect from Tarantino, but maybe it was a reference to Blackula vs Mothra or something.

There was some weird editing, too, especially towards the start and in the first scene with Al Pacino. One weird moment where he cut out of the frame, like the camera had stepped back or something, looked especially weird to me.

Puce Moment

Quote from: Mister Six on August 18, 2019, 12:43:26 PMThere was some weird editing, too, especially towards the start and in the first scene with Al Pacino. One weird moment where he cut out of the frame, like the camera had stepped back or something, looked especially weird to me.

I was very close to a large screen so I was trying to be charitable, but the overhead pan was clunky as hell - really jerky and really jived badly with my immersion in the story. There must have been a better. smoother take but maybe he liked the clunk. I know that he had no intention of doing a Manson/Spahn Ranch film, but this did take me back to when I was reading about Manson, Helter Skelter, and all the smokescreen and lies. But someone HAS to to tell that story in a film soon though, it's so great. I wish Tarantino could have done that, because it could have been wonderful. But Tarantino doesn't care about Manson. He cares about movies.

In terms of shining a light on the end of the 60s hippy dream, I don't think any film has done that better and more effortlessly than Withnail and I.

Wet Blanket

Didn't like the ending. It felt like a non-sequitur. Tarantino just assumes you'll know what the Tate killers were up to so can revel in their ass-kicking, but within the narrative of the movie they're just a faintly comical trio of saps, there's nothing in there that hammers home their evil and justifies such a horrible bloodbath.

I always think there's something a bit slapdash about his screenwriting these days too, with important plot details blasted at you with no finesse: "I just bought me an acid tipped cigarette" "Hi I'm Steve McQueen, let me illustrate the relationship between these three characters"  The various strands of Pulp Fiction weave together so elegantly, with clever call backs and plot details deftly established. if he made that film now he'd have some narrator pipe up "little does Mia know, but that charlie in John Travolta's pocket is actually heroin! (CUTS TO BRIEF FLASHBACK OF JOHN TRAVOLTA AT ERIC STOLTZ' HOUSE)

Mister Six

The entire film is predicated on the audience knowing about Tate's murder. If you don't know what that is, you're not the target audience for this.

Agreed in the narrator though. I thought it was lazy in Hateful Eight too. At least he didn't cast himself for the role this time

popcorn

I sorta wish it had been called Hollywood Ending.

neveragain


popcorn

Enjoyed this. Thought it was an interesting change in direction after the last decade+ of Tarantinos. So many expansive, elaborate, outdoor sets! So much driving! And it was almost totally bloodless and even relatively low on bad language until the end.

It's his whitest film since Reservoir Dogs, isn't it? I didn't catch a single n-word. Makes sense really. It's all about westerns and old white Hollywood. But on the other hand sort of surprising considering the Masons were all about a race war.

It was obviously all building up to some kind of Mason showdown, and I was intrigued to see how it would play out. It became predictable that it would turn into another alternate history thing, and I really, really enjoyed the bloodbath, but at the same it was basically just the Basterds trick again. I really was not expecting Tarantino to machine-gun Hitler's face off and nothing here had the same disbelieving, hilarious impact as that moment. I was half-expecting Bruce Lee to join the fray with a flying kick and was slightly disappointed that he didn't.

It's obviously got more indulgent masturbatory foot action than any other Tarantino film, but after a while the feet stopped seeming like an in-joke and more like a motif, even a metaphor. The barefooted youths, fallen innocence, dirty souls/soles and so on. Quite good I thought. Were Sharon's soles spotless?

I didn't like the suggestion that Brad Pitt had killed his wife. Why give him that dark past? Why make him a possible misogynist murderer? We already see, from countless other examples (especially the Bruce Lee fight) that he's hard as nails, but otherwise he seems to have a heart of gold and that seems to be important.

Thought were was a bit of Coens in the final chapter. The Dude with his white russian (or frozen margarita here), bumbling into things by accident. And the "what the fuck was that? oh well" ending was sorta Burn After Readingish.

Quote from: Wet Blanket on August 20, 2019, 01:28:18 PM
I always think there's something a bit slapdash about his screenwriting these days too, with important plot details blasted at you with no finesse: "I just bought me an acid tipped cigarette" "Hi I'm Steve McQueen, let me illustrate the relationship between these three characters"  The various strands of Pulp Fiction weave together so elegantly, with clever call backs and plot details deftly established. if he made that film now he'd have some narrator pipe up "little does Mia know, but that charlie in John Travolta's pocket is actually heroin! (CUTS TO BRIEF FLASHBACK OF JOHN TRAVOLTA AT ERIC STOLTZ' HOUSE)

I agree with this. He sorta gets away with it because it's cartoonish fun, but it's also so unnecessary - couldn't we just have seen him get the cigarette earlier? Couldn't the hitchhiker girl have given it to him?

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: popcorn on August 22, 2019, 02:11:39 AM
Thought were was a bit of Coens in the final chapter. The Dude with his white russian (or frozen margarita here), bumbling into things by accident. And the "what the fuck was that? oh well" ending was sorta Burn After Readingish.

I agree.  Aside from the more obvious comparisons with Hail, Caesar!, I saw a lot of The Big Lebowski in this too, even down to the over-the-top, surprisingly violent fight with three black-clad comedy villains at the end.  There were a few other similarities I noticed, but I can't remember them.

popcorn

I didn't even think of Hail Caesar but of course, that's there too. Hm!

Swoz_MK

Quote from: popcorn on August 22, 2019, 02:11:39 AM
Were Sharon's soles spotless?

Grubby soles when she had her feet up in the cinema.

popcorn

Hm. Perhaps Quentin's just wanking after all.

Piggyoioi

Saw this yesterday, I really enjoyed it. Not what I was expecting at all, alot slower and less dramatic than what you'd usually expect from a Taraninto film. In some ways I think the pacing would of better suited a mini series, I could of easily digested 5-8 hours of this over time.

Sin Agog

#202
Quote from: Piggyoioi on August 22, 2019, 11:53:36 AM
Saw this yesterday, I really enjoyed it. Not what I was expecting at all, alot slower and less dramatic than what you'd usually expect from a Taraninto film. In some ways I think the pacing would of better suited a mini series, I could of easily digested 5-8 hours of this over time.

I liked the pacing, being driven to every new scene; it's the kinda extraneous shit that most people cut out in the script stage, only to realise it's not extraneous at all.

EDIT: Bizarre seeing Lena Dunham in a Q.T. picture, though.

popcorn

If the film had been by anyone else I would have found the pacing and lack of action frustrating, but you know there's going to be some outrageous payoff, I was very happy to wallow and soak it up. There are decisions I would have questioned in another film but he is a director I trust. You go "OK, interesting choice, wonder what that means..."

phantom_power

I thought the film flew by and was amazed when I saw it was nearly 3 hours long. It is very oddly paced with pretty much fuck all of consequence happening until the ranch but then people always complain about films being too generic nowadays so that is no bad thing. I thought the performances were great, it looked gorgeous and the finale was hilarious, even though I am not quite sure how or why. The link to an actual brutal set of murders did make me feel a bit uneasy while I was watching it but ultimately the film walks the fine line pretty well and it never feels cheap or exploitative.

Sin Agog

Quote from: phantom_power on August 23, 2019, 10:17:33 AM
and the finale was hilarious, even though I am not quite sure how or why.

I actually think whoever accused Trinto of having a weird affinity to seeing wimmenz getting battered tae fuck might not be entirely up their own arse.  The finales of his last two films have involved them getting absolutely pounded, hung up and fried to somehow comic effect.  Whereas Tex, after getting sicced, got relatively ignored.  I'm not going to go all Bashir and pretend that comic violence is irredeemable (I'd have to pretty much give up watching movies from the '70s if I thought that), but a little introspection canne hurt, either.  It's probably more of a case of there only being a few genders, and Quentin wanting to inject some operatic Braindead-esque moments of splatter, so he dishes out the meal over the plates that are there, but it can still feel just a little bit awkward, like he really needed to take out some anger over an ex or something.

phantom_power

But most of Manson's followers were women so in this film and that ending they were always the ones more likely to get the violence dished out to them. I don't really see him going out of his way to making sure women get beaten up.

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: Sin Agog on August 22, 2019, 08:13:08 PM
Bizarre seeing Lena Dunham in a Q.T. picture, though.

Fucking hell, is she in it?!?!?!?


That's me probably avoiding it at all costs then.

Sin Agog

Quote from: phantom_power on August 23, 2019, 12:59:22 PM
But most of Manson's followers were women so in this film and that ending they were always the ones more likely to get the violence dished out to them. I don't really see him going out of his way to making sure women get beaten up...

...shot, turned into dogfood, then set alight with a flamethrower whilst screaming like a banshee.

(Dunham can't have had more than fifty seconds' screentime, but that might still be fifty seconds too much for you).

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: Sin Agog on August 23, 2019, 01:13:04 PM
Dunham can't have had more than fifty seconds' screentime, but that might still be fifty seconds too much for you.

Possibly.  I think she's abysmal.