Families and crap comedy

[Jake Thingray]

In the past, I used to whinge on here about my uncle (Irish, but long resident in Athens and fancying himself as an all-purpose pan-European) believing Mr Bean to be the finest and most representative example of British comedy, now family members as far apart as the Ould Country itself and New Zealand insist on posting Peter Kay clips on Facebook. Worrying.

[Utter Shit]

Mr. Bean is fantastic!

[Old Nehamkin]

Yeah your uncle sounds cool tbh.

[Rich Uncle Skeleton]

Give your uncle your CaB password and be done with it.

[pigamus]

Oh - I thought this was going to be a thread about how families ruin comedy. Or at least kids do.

[the]

Or about how the premise of most mainstream American sitcoms is "person has family... er, that's it".

[pigamus]

I want to do my brilliant observation about how strange The Good Life seems once you realise neither couple has any kids.

[mojo filters]

I want to do my brilliant observation about how strange The Good Life seems once you realise neither couple has any kids.

Larbey and Esmonde made a deliberate decision that adding kids into the show would have created ethical issues, that could easily complicate and detract from the kind of comedy they intended, which makes perfect sense really.

To be honest it never seemed strange to me, when I watched it with my parents as a youngster. It was only when I heard some R4 show years later with the information above, that it occurred to me as potentially unusual.

I suspect the latter was at least in part to the brilliance of the show, by way of the plausible situation from which the comedy arises.

In hindsight there are lots of weird things about Basil's marriage and overall circumstances in Fawlty Towers, but they never occurred to me until many years later. I'll admit I now find the utterly unnecessary extra bit of upstairs staircase very irritating to watch (a bit like the diagonal orientation of Jerry's door in Seinfeld) but that's a relatively minor quibble!

[poodlefaker]

I once  read an imagined backstory for Basil and Sybil - how he'd been down in Devon on a rugby tour and spotted her working in her dad's hotel. He fancied her, he was quite a dashing young man and she saw him as her way out. The dad bought them their own hotel as a wedding present. Can't remember where I saw it - might have been in an interview w/Cleese.

[pigamus]

Larbey and Esmonde made a deliberate decision that adding kids into the show would have created ethical issues, that could easily complicate and detract from the kind of comedy they intended, which makes perfect sense really.

That's interesting. I wonder if they would have done it otherwise?

Although now it occurs to me there are no kids in Ever Decreasing Circles either, so maybe so.

[Clownbaby]

My dad once put on "Mrs Caldicott's Cabbage War" and seemed to be shaking with laughter at one point

My dad's side of the family were all round at one of my aunt's and someone decided to whack on that film "Thunderpants" and they all seemed to really, really enjoy it

My mam has a very similar taste in comedy to me and I know that if I show her something I like, she'll probably at least get the appeal but there isn't so much humour overlap with me and my dad.

[Blue Jam]

My mother was a militant Scouser. Naturally we had to endure everything from Freddie Starr to Bread in our house.

Not Cilla Black though. Scousers make an exception for Cilla.

[Icehaven]

I'll admit I now find the utterly unnecessary extra bit of upstairs staircase very irritating to watch (a bit like the diagonal orientation of Jerry's door in Seinfeld) but that's a relatively minor quibble!

In the first few series of Friends there's often shots where a wooden rafter/beam type thing is visible the middle of Monica's apartment, but by about the 3rd series it's vanished.
Extraneous or disappearing scenery in sitcoms thread anyone? Maybe not.

[Rolf Lundgren]

My dad once went to see Roy Chubby Brown without knowing who he was or what it would be like. When I asked for his verdict he gave me a pained expression and said 'a bit strong'.

[lankyguy95]

I'll admit I now find the utterly unnecessary extra bit of upstairs staircase very irritating to watch (a bit like the diagonal orientation of Jerry's door in Seinfeld) but that's a relatively minor quibble!

Yeah but it means you get to see John Cleese skipping up and down it which is always funny.

[Ignatius_S]

...Although now it occurs to me there are no kids in Ever Decreasing Circles either, so maybe so.

If Martin and Ann had children, Martin would not have the time (or energy) to devote organising everyone and being involved with everything and anything, which was essential to the show's concept. Martin for all his faults, is an honourable person and wouldn't stint of his paternal duties

Early on in the show, Martin reveals that his antipathy to Paul stems from his childhood – he was the leader of a gang, who suddenly flock to a charismatic newcomer and he fears history is repeating. It's a traumatic experience, which affects him and in some ways, feel he has yet to fully grow-up.

At the end of the show, Martin and Ann move away because of the former's work. Pretty sure that to be with, Martin says he's not going to leave because their neighbours 'need' him, but when Ann reveals she's pregnant, he realises that for the sake of Ann and the child, the move must happen. In that episode, Martin realises he's not irreplaceable to his local community (there's a local event, IIRC, a fete that he wasn't able to get involved in, but sees it operates beautifully) and that Paul does see him as a friend (and the scene is quite touching). He also realises that his life does need to change and for the better. It's a lovely, satisfying ending and one that needed the set-up that the show had.

Also, one of the key aspects of the series is the relationship between Paul and Ann. Although Ann is attracted to Paul, she rebuffs his advances but throughout the series, there's a feeling that something could happen. Indeed, I think at one point, the writers were going to have Ann and Paul running off together.

If Ann and Martin did have children, I don't feel A & P's sexual tension would have worked – or would need considerable re-working. Going from memory, but Ann says something along the lines to Paul that sooner or later, he would bore of her and that would be that – the implication, I would say, is that Ann if did get involved with Paul, she wouldn't want it on a temporary basis.

If Ann did leave Martin, it's hard to see her leaving the child as well (and feel audiences would have viewed that decision in a dim light); if she took the child, it's hard to see the commitment-free Paul being happy with that. Either way, audience sympathy would massively be on Martin's side, which doesn't fit the show.

[Ignatius_S]

Larbey and Esmonde made a deliberate decision that adding kids into the show would have created ethical issues, that could easily complicate and detract from the kind of comedy they intended, which makes perfect sense really...

That's interesting. Personally, I see children would have completely changed the dynamic of the show, so it would have been something very different.

From what I remember of the set-up, Tom decides to jack in his job for the 'good life' without talking it through with Barbara. If he had done that and they had children, would audiences have been so accepting? Again going from memory, Tom and Barbara are often struggling to make ends meet, which worked well for situation comedy, but if they had kids (the non-goat variety) that element would have to be tweaked – would audiences like to see children going without?

Thinking about Margo and Jerry, I was watching a couple of episodes recently and it worked them not having children. In one episode, it highlighted how full their social diary was – IIRC, to the extent they were out virtually every evening – it suits the characters well (and highlights the kind of stuff T&B forgo) but would they be doing that if they had children? In another, there was about how extremely active Margo was socially, which would work less well if she was a mother.

I recall an interview with Briers saying that he didn't like the character of Tom (as a person, rather than playing) – he argued that Tom was very selfish, and self-centred and 'a bit of sponger'. I wouldn't say that the actor trumps all opinion about their character, but if we say there's an element of truth, perhaps Tom is too selfish to have children?

[Ignatius_S]

I once read an imagined backstory for Basil and Sybil - how he'd been down in Devon on a rugby tour and spotted her working in her dad's hotel. He fancied her, he was quite a dashing young man and she saw him as her way out. The dad bought them their own hotel as a wedding present. Can't remember where I saw it - might have been in an interview w/Cleese.

That's roughly along the lines of what's contained in a section of Graham McCann's book about the series, where their backstories are speculated upon. IIRC, Sybil was working in her parent's pub when they met, Basil told her his plans about working in a hotel – he found her attractive and she liked the aspiration.

However, what he writes about Manuel (e.g. large family with the children vying for attention from a parent and any – even if it was smack on the head – was welcome) bears a more than passing resemblance about what Sachs said he imagined Manuel's background to be. So at least, in part, McCann looked to what people connected to the show.

Although it was kind of fun to read, the section felt like padding to me and don't feel that the characters' personal histories need to be known in detail.

[mojo filters]

That's interesting. I wonder if they would have done it otherwise?

I think it was one of the first considerations they made regarding the original premise of the show. It's a pretty obvious issue to address, and a pretty significant factor to add in. 

Why would they do it otherwise? It would totally change and complicate the humour pervading the whole series. Such a huge change to the situation would cause a big change to the comedic elements.

Most importantly, it would have made Tom and then by extension Barbara, potentially less sympathetic protagonists. It would also have turned the self-centred nature of Jerry and Margo into a different dynamic.

Although now it occurs to me there are no kids in Ever Decreasing Circles either, so maybe so.

I have to admit I'd forgotten that. However to be honest, apart from watching Richard Briars playing another flawed-yet-sympathetic role - I don't remember much about that show, even though I was equally exposed to it as a kid via my parents viewing habits.

I guess I've never noticed it in re-runs, whereas The Good Life seems to have sustained the kind of longevity that gives a kind of classic status to BBC shows from that era.

[mojo filters]

In the first few series of Friends there's often shots where a wooden rafter/beam type thing is visible the middle of Monica's apartment, but by about the 3rd series it's vanished.
Extraneous or disappearing scenery in sitcoms thread anyone? Maybe not.

I recall that, though I didn't realise the inconsistency was so consistent timeline wise - I just thought those beams appeared in episodes with lots of wide shots, and were not there for those with inconsistent and inconsequential cutaways.

Given the very well known competition for rent controlled prime NYC real estate, I see much bigger plotting flaws in Friends - related to Monica living for 10 years in her dead grandmother's apartment.

At least Larry David partially addressed the show's cognisance of NYC rent control and other real estate issues, in early Seinfeld. Plus he had the experience of living in an apartment resulting from the Ed Koch era, where artistic types were able to live cheaply in relatively upmarket locations - which at least partially explains why a weird character like Kenny Kramer could live next to a reasonably affluent professional like Jerry, since that was LD's situation when he worked on the SNL writing team.

[Jockice]

My mother was a militant Scouser. Naturally we had to endure everything from Freddie Starr to Bread in our house.

My mum (a Scot not a Scouser) loved Bread. Until they changed the actor who played Joey Boswell. Then she boycotted it because it 'wasn't the same.' Er, it was still written by Carla Lane, wasn't it? She didn't half like some crap. Birds Of A Feather was another of her favourites.

Regarding my dad, he had generally good taste, so when Knowing Me Knowing You started, I thought: "That's just the sort of thing he'd like,'' so went round to my folks' house to watch the second episode with him. He say stony-faced all the way through. He literally just didn't get it. A few years later he started raving about Alistair McGowan's show (which I'd seen bits of and thought it was okay) and when it was on one Christmas Day he insisted we all sit and watch it with him, telling us how brilliant it was. Unfortunately instead of a load of short sketches as usual, they'd decided to turn it into some sort of story. And it was crap. Got a couple of weak laughs from him while this time the rest of us sat stony-faced.

Also, my dad didn't like swearing and thought Billy Connolly was crude and unfunny. So imagine my surprise when he started raving about Jerry Sadowitz after seeing the first episode of The Pall Bearers Revue. Which as I still lived at home at the time had been watching in my bedroom as I thought he may object to me having it on in the living room.  So we ended up watching the rest of the series together. I never played him Gobshite though. I think that may have been too much for him.

[Jockice]

Just looked this up. Apparently Alistair McGowan was in most episodes of The Pall Bearers Revue. I didn't realise that.

[Twed]

My sister buys tickets to see Jimmy Carr on purpose.

[Jockice]

My sister buys tickets to see Jimmy Carr on purpose.

My sister thinks (and this is a direct quote): "Benidorm is as good as Fawlty Towers." Beat that!

[St_Eddie]

My Sister once used her phone to show this video to my Mum and I.  They were laughing like crazy at it.  I was quietly seething.

I once  read an imagined backstory for Basil and Sybil - how he'd been down in Devon on a rugby tour and spotted her working in her dad's hotel. He fancied her, he was quite a dashing young man and she saw him as her way out. The dad bought them their own hotel as a wedding present. Can't remember where I saw it - might have been in an interview w/Cleese.

It likely was John Cleese, as he said something similar on the DVD commentary track for Fawlty Towers.

[St_Eddie]

In hindsight there are lots of weird things about Basil's marriage and overall circumstances in Fawlty Towers, but they never occurred to me until many years later. I'll admit I now find the utterly unnecessary extra bit of upstairs staircase very irritating to watch (a bit like the diagonal orientation of Jerry's door in Seinfeld) but that's a relatively minor quibble!

[The staircase] was put there deliberately by the director, who recalled such an absurd device in a real Edinburgh hotel. It also helped to exacerbate the sense of frantic movement.

[MidnightShambler]

My mother was a militant Scouser. Naturally we had to endure everything from Freddie Starr to Bread in our house.

Not Cilla Black though. Scousers make an exception for Cilla.

The only scouser universally loathed by every other scouser, I've never met anybody who liked her. When she died and they put a statue of her by the Cavern the turnout was almost entirely of people from anywhere in the country bar Liverpool. She was a nasty piece of work in real life apparently too, there was a whole forum dedicated to her behaviour on flights by cabin crew at one point, can't remember the name of it though.

And she couldn't fucking sing.

[Funcrusher]

Good to see a return of Jake's uncle to CAB.

[MidnightShambler]

When I was working in NZ, the family I boarded with thought Mrs Browns Boys was the funniest programme ever made, the whole lot of them used to watch it together on a Friday night, neighbours used to pop round to join in the fun too. They couldn't understand why I thought it was shite. If you think British telly is bad, spare a thought for Kiwis. The whole schedule is the absolute worst of repeated British shite from years ago (Cash In The Attic etc) and a load of reality toss from Australia and B-movies from the 80s. Terrible.

[Twed]

My sister thinks (and this is a direct quote): "Benidorm is as good as Fawlty Towers." Beat that!

My sister named her youngest three children after Twilight characters.