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March 28, 2024, 04:16:51 PM

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Is it helpful to use the term 'the establishment'?

Started by garnish, March 24, 2019, 12:42:46 PM

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garnish

Do you reckon most people just roll their eyes and stop listening once you start saying the establishment are full of paedos or are in cahoots with Mi5 or whatever.

Should we be more precise with our language and start naming names or institutions instead - it's no good saying the establishment is anti-Brexit if the most high profile pro-Brexit politician is Jacob Rees-Mogg I reckon.

Sebastian Cobb

Is it accurate to split things up into different parties if there's sizeable numbers of people in ostensibly different parties who support the same people and institutions? Seems to be implying a difference when there is none.

I wouldn't really say Mogg is proper establishment, he's aristocracy, yes, but he's supporting brexit because he thinks it will make him personally very wealthy, this thinking is happening outside symbiotic relationships of global businesses, although neither really care about the proles the latter is savvy enough they need to have some form of purchasing power to exploit in the first place.

garnish

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on March 24, 2019, 12:46:08 PM
Is it accurate to split things up into different parties if there's sizeable numbers of people in ostensibly different parties who support the same people and institutions? Seems to be implying a difference when there is none.

Yes, but also no.

ToneLa


José

Quote from: garnish on March 24, 2019, 12:42:46 PM
Do you reckon most people just roll their eyes and stop listening once you start saying the establishment are full of paedos or are in cahoots with Mi5 or whatever.

Should we be more precise with our language and start naming names or institutions instead - it's no good saying the establishment is anti-Brexit if the most high profile pro-Brexit politician is Jacob Rees-Mogg I reckon.

wow shocking stuff. i had no idea jacob reese mogg was a paedo.

Funcrusher

The total dominance of public school educated and Oxbridge grads in elite institutions shows who and what the establishment in this country is and how much control they have. The concerted actions to destroy Corbyn, which reach across supposed ideological differences, show also who's who. The same mobilisation that took place to attempt to destroy Wilson's government, little has really changed. We just get the likes of Cameron who affect a liking for Britpop or whatever.

Captain Z

I don't like this phrase, the only time I head it in real life was preceded with the words 'I'm afraid we'll have to ask you to leave'.

Lisa Jesusandmarychain

What if You're talking about that Satires club what Peter Cook set up in the 1960s ?

idunnosomename

it's not helpful to use words to describe things.

garnish

Quote from: idunnosomename on March 24, 2019, 05:09:59 PM
it's not helpful to use words to describe things.

What if you could use more precise words, like Eton-educated Conservatives.  Do you think the public are more likely to listen to what you have to say about them.

idunnosomename

Quote from: garnish on March 24, 2019, 05:15:35 PM
What if you could use more precise words, like Eton-educated Conservatives.  Do you think the public are more likely to listen to what you have to say about them.
i was trying to be all wittgenstein but it just made me sound lazy. ah well.

bet they just teach em derrida at eton.

Twed

Not only is it helpful but from now on I think we should always add "man". "The establishment, man."

Buelligan

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on March 24, 2019, 12:46:08 PM
I wouldn't really say Mogg is proper establishment, he's aristocracy...

Well he's not really, he's an upper-middle-class high tory, they're the absolute fucking worst, always trying to impress the common people, with their "quality".  His dad was a life peer (fuck all) he's the fucking Hyacinth Bucket version of a pukka British aristo (who are normally a bit thicker and far, far, more coarse).

BlodwynPig


idunnosomename

I also think Jacob is a bit of a weird one because always think he doesn't really like power and politics all that much. He'd rather be making money but I think his dad pushed him into politics to really make something of himself and not just piss about in the city being rich. He was parachuted into a safe seat that's a doughnut around Bristol so it's basically the archers, after making two completely lazy goes at labour seats in Fife and Shropshire.

In Cameron's government he was just a reactionary old cunt and I think he's only risen to prominence because he says Brexit as an opportunity to really make some proper money without doing too much work.

Do remember his father was the editor of the times who wrote the famous "Who breaks a butterfly on a wheel?" editorial about the rolling stones.