Author Topic: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread  (Read 28865 times)

Fambo Number Mive

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Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« on: March 28, 2019, 08:58:05 AM »
A thread to discuss what happens in the House of Commons and Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland parliaments regarding Brexit. Perhaps the outside-HOC Brexit events could be discussed in the petition thread.

greencalx

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2019, 09:07:50 AM »
From the last Brexit thread:

I'm now thinking about the fate of MV3, both in terms of timing and substance. What we know so far:

- Bercow is insistent that any new MV must differ in substance. I had assumed the change of context (EU extension) would satisfy him, but he seems to be digging his heels in.
- The DUP says no, and the ERG who had been teetering in favour of backing May as a last-ditch attempt to get any kind of Brexit, seem now re-emboldened to vote against in sufficient numbers to kill the deal.
- Parliament has no overall preference for an alternative plan as yet, but could perhaps coalesce around the two front-running positions (CU and a 2nd ref).
- May says she'll go if she gets her way, and she'll stay if she doesn't (presumably).

So the first question: should May call MV3 tomorrow? In favour: it gets it over and done with; there is no obvious alternative plan; maybe, just maybe, with parliament more inclined towards soft Brexit / referendum, this could scare some right-wingers into backing it after all; May can claim she has a mandate to stay on if it fails. Against: Bercow might not allow it; she will probably lose [although that might be a win].

The other option is to wait until after Monday's second round of IVs. This I think is riskier. If parliament remains deadlocked, she can try and bring back the same question on the grounds that it's the only one that has any degree of agreement. But there is the possibility that one of the two frontrunner alternatives (maybe both) get majority support in an IV. Would the expectation then be that May takes a motion reflecting this forwards so that Bercow will allow a vote on it? I can't see her doing that in a million years. Which would mean modifications would have to come via amendments... but if there's nothing to amend, there's a bit of a catch-22. Maybe the solution is to add a face-saving clause that makes the motion different enough to vote on, but with the expectation that it gets removed via an amendment?

The other possibility of course is that she doesn't bring it forward at all... but then I a VonC would presumably follow. But that in itself is risky, as I think it would likely result in a new Tory PM obtained via a route that doesn't involve a troublesome leadership contest. (They could hold the contest later, and all the opponents could stand down like last time to avoid it going to the membership).

Flouncer

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2019, 09:08:53 AM »
I've been watching the goings on in the house a lot lately; I'd considered starting a thread specifically for that myself (not necessarily just Brexit stuff but the house in general) though I was concerned that there would be too many politics threads on the go.

greencalx

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2019, 09:10:00 AM »
Yeah, well arcane aspects of parliamentary procedure (which I think most of us are learning on-the-fly) are suddenly very relevant, so I'm sure these can be woven in and out of the discussion.

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2019, 09:17:33 AM »
So there is a useful summary of guessing the current state of play of May's WA (Withdrawal Argreement)* passing at MV3
(Meaningful Vote 3rd attempt/reading) after the last couple of days.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/mar/27/can-you-get-mays-deal-through-meaningful-vote-3

Breaks down the Parliamentary groupings and likelihood of voting for or against.

For 298 Against 340 so it would fail again based on those assumptions.


*Just in case anyone is getting confused by the increasing number of acronyms popping up all over, others are CU=Customs Union SM=Single Market ( The customs Union removes all tariffs and border checks on goods moving within the 28-nation bloc, and applies common tariffs on goods entering from the outside. The single market makes the bloc a common economic zone in which goods and services can move freely with no internal borders or barriers.) IV=Indicative Vote where parliament can vote on proposals without binding themselves to anything, a way of showing the popularity of the proposals.

Flouncer

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2019, 09:37:36 AM »
Yeah, well arcane aspects of parliamentary procedure (which I think most of us are learning on-the-fly) are suddenly very relevant, so I'm sure these can be woven in and out of the discussion.

I find it fascinating, really. I think my interest in this will endure even when this imbroglio has run its course. I hope some cunt grabs the mace again; that's well funny.

Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2019, 10:03:17 AM »
Amazing scenes last night as Bercow left the chamber to allow for the votes, but the clerks forgot to take the mace meaning that the speaker's chair was still "active".

Cue MPs bellowing points of order at an empty chair.

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2019, 10:04:32 AM »
Amazing scenes last night as Bercow left the chamber to allow for the votes, but the clerks forgot to take the mace meaning that the speaker's chair was still "active".

Cue MPs bellowing points of order at an empty chair.

Could they be mentally ill?

Layer upon layer of impenetrable bullshit that they all somehow take for granted.

Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2019, 10:08:20 AM »
The HoC is such a fucking ridiculous tradition. Stuff like the shouting at an empty chair shows what a bunch of childish cunts they all are. Not to mention all the harumphing and jeering and general fuckhousery of most MPs. All that grandeur makes them think they are entitled to act how they want and behave like rowdy kids in the name of "tradition". The HoC should be like a sterile modern meeting room, or better yet a series of dumb terminals they remote video stream into from their own offices

Cuellar

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2019, 10:10:57 AM »
Amazing scenes last night as Bercow left the chamber to allow for the votes, but the clerks forgot to take the mace meaning that the speaker's chair was still "active".

Cue MPs bellowing points of order at an empty chair.

Would like to see footage of this.

Fambo Number Mive

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2019, 10:11:28 AM »
It's also silly that there isn't enough space for all 650 MPs to sit down.

We should move the Parliament to a large building in Leicester and make the Parliament in London a museum. Also have monitors in the Leicester Parliament attached to each seat so MPs can take part by conference call, reducing the need to travel and thereby MPs expenses.

greencalx

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2019, 10:27:24 AM »
Nice idea, but have you ever been in a conference call involving more than about four people?

Fambo Number Mive

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2019, 10:36:49 AM »
You'd still have a Speaker to stop more than one person talking at a time. Instead of bobbing people would press a button when they wanted to speak, as would the ones in the chamber. The Speaker would have an assistant who would sit in front of a console with 650 lights and would let them know who was flashing.

Parliament would be circular like the Scottish Parliament.

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2019, 10:37:38 AM »
Nice idea, but have you ever been in a conference call involving more than about four people?

They should make rooms wider if it’s an issue.

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2019, 10:39:02 AM »
You'd still have a Speaker to stop more than one person talking at a time. Instead of bobbing people would press a button when they wanted to speak, as would the ones in the chamber. The Speaker would have an assistant who would sit in front of a console with 650 lights and would let them know who was flashing.

Parliament would be circular like the Scottish Parliament.

What’s wrong with the whack-a-mole method?

Paul Calf

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2019, 10:41:19 AM »
Physical presence is important; one of the reasons online voting hasn't taken off - and postal voting is restricted - is that it's impossible to prove that you haven't shown anyone else your ballot if it takes place electronically.

Fambo Number Mive

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2019, 10:46:22 AM »
You could require people to come to Parliament for the votes. I assume that there are some days when items are debated but there aren't any votes. They could have an hour or two gap between the debate and the vote to allow MPs time to travel down and vote.

Or the MP could hold up a placard saying Yes/No and the tellers could count them and take a photo to show which way they voted.

Fambo Number Mive

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2019, 10:47:25 AM »
Mark Francois says he wouldn't vote for Theresa May's deal. "I wouldn't vote for it if they put a shotgun in my mouth".


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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2019, 10:48:52 AM »
Maybe we could have a version where all the male MPs stand there with their cocks out, and somebody at the front has a Rottweiler on a stick that is held out to bite the cock of whoever’s turn it is to speak.

Paul Calf

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2019, 10:53:00 AM »
You could require people to come to Parliament for the votes. I assume that there are some days when items are debated but there aren't any votes. They could have an hour or two gap between the debate and the vote to allow MPs time to travel down and vote.

Or the MP could hold up a placard saying Yes/No and the tellers could count them and take a photo to show which way they voted.

Wouldn't stop you selling your vote if that was what you wanted to do though.

Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2019, 10:55:30 AM »
Parliament would be circular like the Scottish Parliament.

It should be a rapidly rotating spherical room, with those high up on the sides stuck to their seats by centrifugal force.

Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2019, 10:57:54 AM »
It should be like the Star Wars prequels where they all float around on platforms for no reason. Better yet, just elect less cunts

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2019, 11:01:47 AM »
Fewer Cunts is the working title for Star Wars Episode X.

Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2019, 11:04:16 AM »
It should be like the Star Wars prequels where they all float around on platforms for no reason. Better yet, just elect less cunts

Can't believe I'm reading this - "fewer cunts".

Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2019, 11:12:28 AM »
I don't buy this. I reckon the OP is looking for juicy House of Commons stories to wank over.

Blinder Data

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2019, 11:58:28 AM »
Dunno if this is the best thread but just thinking out loud on possible scenario:

- MV3 fails tomorrow
- Customs Union (with confirmatory referendum tacked on?) vote passes on Monday
- May opts for no deal instead of presiding over customs union/confirmatory referendum due to being a stubborn Tory
- Motion of no confidence in May passes, due to Tories voting to stop no deal

Election immediately? Minority Lab Government in the short-term?

Whatever happens, no deal must be avoided on 12 April. The deal tomorrow has a slim chance of passing. So a long extension of Article 50 is likely.

European elections baby!

Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2019, 12:21:21 PM »
Can't believe I'm reading this - "fewer cunts".

They don't deserve grammatical correctitude

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2019, 12:22:51 PM »
Can't believe I'm reading this - "fewer cunts".

I had the sophistication to offer it as the title of a Star Wars film at least.  You have no class.

Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2019, 12:29:01 PM »
I had the sophistication to offer it as the title of a Star Wars film at least.  You have no class.

Mind went blank. I was literally shaking when I read it.

Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2019, 12:44:27 PM »
They are bringing the deal back for debate tomorrow, but there will not be a meaningful vote.