Author Topic: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread  (Read 28118 times)

pancreas

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #60 on: March 29, 2019, 08:32:41 AM »
Don't need em if we get the SNP on board.

Paul Calf

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #61 on: March 29, 2019, 08:33:48 AM »
Hooray! There's a good chance we might end up with something significantly worse than what we have now! I can't really go for this and I do wonder whether this was the Brextremists' plan all along: use the CU as a bargaining chip to get us out of the SM.

Whichever way, this is not a victory and will satisfy no-one.

Replies From View

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #62 on: March 29, 2019, 08:35:09 AM »
the fact it is a Friday means a lot of MPs won't be in the House (really?!)

Friday is the day they are allowed to go to the sweet shop.

Talulah, really!

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #63 on: March 29, 2019, 08:48:47 AM »
Assuming MV2½ does not get passed today then perhaps best case scenario is Parliament whittles down to a CU + 2nd referendum option, giving a choice between remaining and leaving, this time on a specific deal so the public knows what it is getting if it votes to leave.

This puts the ERG/Farage No Deal in a tougher position because if they want that also put on the ballot it will split leaver votes between hard and soft versions of Brexit and thus most likely lose to the remain vote.

Worse case - Parliament today votes down May's WA and thus the April 12th deadline kicks in, with May effectively the lamest of ducks leader in name only, the tories tear around in a leadership frenzy, parliament hasn't enough time to come up with a plan, there's no one to negotiate a new timetable/extension with the EU and we crash out.

Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #64 on: March 29, 2019, 08:58:20 AM »
Monday needs to be when mp's stop fucking about with abstaining and get behind an option. No reason why the last indicative votes couldn't have given some clear options. Hopefully may deal being properly dead after today will allow tories to vote for something else freely on Monday.

greencalx

  • Never knowingly knowledgeable
Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #65 on: March 29, 2019, 09:33:40 AM »
Paul - I see where you are coming from, but I think pragmatically at some point one has to recognise where the probability of getting one's first choice is sufficiently small that one has to accept the remaining least-worst option in the interests of damage limitation. This doesn't preclude continuing to campaign for the first-choice option, but everyone needs a Plan B. Otherwise we're all being as reckless and extremist as the No Deal nutters.

Three amendments on MV2.5. (a) is a revocation motion; (b) is an amendment to try and get Parliament take control of the negotiation phase; (c) is a Scotland and Wales have to agree motion.

(a) will fail, and probably know will kill any further talk of revocation. I think this would have been better left until Monday. (b) is interesting, and could be useful in the light of upcoming uncertainty in who will be leading the country. I expect nevertheless it will fail, but maybe the idea will stay alive on Monday. (c) will fail.


greencalx

  • Never knowingly knowledgeable
Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #66 on: March 29, 2019, 09:48:12 AM »
Bercow has already killed all three amendments. Reasonable for (a) and (c) I think, as these were debated on Wednesday. There might be life in (b) yet - but we have to see where today's vote goes...

Paul Calf

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #67 on: March 29, 2019, 09:59:30 AM »
Everyone gets what no-one wants.

Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #68 on: March 29, 2019, 10:57:18 AM »
Been interesting watching it so far. It seems that the task today is to get as many Tory rebels on side so they can blame Labour for everything if it doesn't pass.

Cash and Redwood are not budging.

Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #69 on: March 29, 2019, 11:36:38 AM »
Apparently Raab will, though. As will Johnson, and JRM is being all secretive about it, so I think he'll vote for it as well.

Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #70 on: March 29, 2019, 11:38:13 AM »
Ian Dunt's twigged why so many hard Brexiteers are voting for the deal now. And it's not just designs on number 10;

Quote
(Ian Duncan Smith) is trying to create a situation where Article 50 cannot be extended further. The cliff edge will be locked in. Then hard Brexiters attack the legislation implementing May's deal.

All roads lead to no deal.

greencalx

  • Never knowingly knowledgeable
Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #71 on: March 29, 2019, 11:52:28 AM »
Lots of people suddenly coming out in favour. The ayes may yet have it.

Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #72 on: March 29, 2019, 11:59:46 AM »
Grieve now spelling out the IDS plan in plan English;

Quote
"It's perfectly obvious that some of my hon friends have the intention to use the withdrawal agreement Act to wreck the passage of any agreement."

Jerzy Bondov

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #73 on: March 29, 2019, 12:00:04 PM »
I don't even know what I want to happen any more. Nothing. I want nothing to happen again, ever. This has all been too much stuff, happening.

Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #74 on: March 29, 2019, 12:09:14 PM »
Hoey not budging, DUP not budging.

They need to find a whole ton of Labour defectors now. It's not happening.

Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #75 on: March 29, 2019, 12:12:24 PM »
Nothing has changed except the date of the cliff edge - it doesn't matter that the house overwhelmingly opposes No Deal, as they oppose everything else as well, continuing to leave No Deal as the default outcome.  Second ref, revoke, customs union etc all require a successful vote and good luck with that!

What we need really is complete political revolution - the system as it stands makes Labour and the Tories honour-bound to oppose each other and never ever compromise no matter what.  Normally this is "fine" as the government normally has a majority and can just steamroll everything through regardless of the noises made by the opposition.  But when the people don't know what they want, we get a minority government and a HoC that doesn't know what it wants, and bam, deadlock.  In this situation the political parties should work together to find this thing called a 'compromise', but you get stubborn cunts like Maybot and Corbyn both of whom see 'cross party discussions / compromise' as "relentlessly try to ram MY way down the throat of the other", no compromise whatsoever.  It needs a complete change in culture

Alberon

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #76 on: March 29, 2019, 12:14:11 PM »
It is going to be close. May could win this. It’d be a Pyrrhic victory as the Tories would then shred the deal she sacrificed herself on but that’s par for the course with her.

pancreas

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #77 on: March 29, 2019, 12:20:42 PM »
It's not going to be close.

Fabian Thomsett

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #78 on: March 29, 2019, 12:32:51 PM »
Quote
f**k knows, I'm past caring, it's like the living dead in here”

Lol imagine if Labour were in charge of Brexit and it came to this. There'd be talk of military coups by this point.

Fabian Thomsett

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #79 on: March 29, 2019, 12:33:40 PM »
I don't even know what I want to happen any more. Nothing. I want nothing to happen again, ever. This has all been too much stuff, happening.

Nobody comes, nobody goes, it's awful...

Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #80 on: March 29, 2019, 12:35:43 PM »
Raab now a confirmed aye.

Alberon

  • His heart is an empty fridge
Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #81 on: March 29, 2019, 12:40:39 PM »
Nobody comes, nobody goes, it's awful...

Bexitt.

I could put up with this going on forever as at least we’d still be in the EU.

Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #82 on: March 29, 2019, 01:00:03 PM »
Feel quite sorry for the likes of Barron and Bone today. Seeing them pleading with the careerists and disaster capitalists who are jumping off the bandwagon.

Out of the whole house, there's probably about 10 people in there who genuinely want to leave.

imitationleather

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #83 on: March 29, 2019, 01:07:33 PM »
Feel quite sorry for the likes of Barron and Bone today.

DOES NOT COMPUTE

BlodwynPig

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #84 on: March 29, 2019, 01:10:03 PM »
Hooray! There's a good chance we might end up with something significantly worse than what we have now! I can't really go for this and I do wonder whether this was the Brextremists' plan all along: use the CU as a bargaining chip to get us out of the SM.

Whichever way, this is not a victory and will satisfy no-one.

Absolutely. No middle ground - No Deal or No Brexit, ideally the latter. Some middle-ground will end up in a beige disaster.

BlodwynPig

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #85 on: March 29, 2019, 01:11:53 PM »
Everyone gets what no-one wants.

Yes, it's exactly why we are in this state. The centrist fallacy.

Alberon

  • His heart is an empty fridge
Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #86 on: March 29, 2019, 01:14:09 PM »
This might cheer some of you up if you haven’t seen it in the other thread. The Independent Group are forming a party in time for potential European elections.

They’ll now be called ‘Change UK’, but clearly no one thought about the acronym as that means they’re now the CUKs.

Zetetic

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #87 on: March 29, 2019, 01:17:09 PM »
Yes, it's exactly why we are in this state. The centrist fallacy.
And alongside the complete rejection of any sort of principle.

Is this really about sovereignty? Then any form of Brexit other than no-deal leaves us de jure worse off than we were before. (And any form whatosever probably leaves us de facto worse off.)

Do individual rights matter in the slightest? However soft you make your Brexit in the service of industry (which, yes, is the pragmatic thing to do for the sake of many people's well-being), you're still withdrawing rights from millions of citizens (while maintaining privileges for capital).

BlodwynPig

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Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #88 on: March 29, 2019, 01:18:57 PM »
Nothing has changed except the date of the cliff edge - it doesn't matter that the house overwhelmingly opposes No Deal, as they oppose everything else as well, continuing to leave No Deal as the default outcome.  Second ref, revoke, customs union etc all require a successful vote and good luck with that!

What we need really is complete political revolution - the system as it stands makes Labour and the Tories honour-bound to oppose each other and never ever compromise no matter what.  Normally this is "fine" as the government normally has a majority and can just steamroll everything through regardless of the noises made by the opposition.  But when the people don't know what they want, we get a minority government and a HoC that doesn't know what it wants, and bam, deadlock.  In this situation the political parties should work together to find this thing called a 'compromise', but you get stubborn cunts like Maybot and Corbyn both of whom see 'cross party discussions / compromise' as "relentlessly try to ram MY way down the throat of the other", no compromise whatsoever.  It needs a complete change in culture

WE NEED CHINGE!

greencalx

  • Never knowingly knowledgeable
Re: Brexit In Parliament Discussion Thread
« Reply #89 on: March 29, 2019, 01:19:34 PM »
This might cheer some of you up if you haven’t seen it in the other thread. The Independent Group are forming a party in time for potential European elections.

They’ll now be called ‘Change UK’, but clearly no one thought about the acronym as that means they’re now the CUKs.

But it nearly spells Chukka if you miss enough letters out, so maybe that's good enough for them. But nothing will ever beat TINGE and they should be known as that forevermore.