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Brexit Thread Seven: More of this shit

Started by Mister Six, April 05, 2019, 04:29:39 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Hundhoon

UK, FRANCE, GERMANY, ITALY, RUSSIA AND SPAIN, THE GREAT EUROPEAN POWERS ARE FAMILY,


Cuellar

I think where you pay your taxes should determine where you can vote. This is a very high-level idea and I haven't thought it through but I'm sticking by it.

Buelligan

Hmm.  Needs more cowbell/thought I think.  Stuff like, do the unemployed or impoverished get to vote?  Does it mean rich people can declare small incomes (and pay basic taxes) in more than one electorate to get extra voting power (probably not but it needs considering).

My own feeling is the European citizens should have the right to European (nation-free) passports and automatically receive voting rights in the European country they are normally domiciled in.  Citizens living outside the EU (and this could also apply to British citizens, post brexit, living outside the UK) should have the life-long right to vote for representation in the EU (or UK, in a post-brexit world).

Paul Calf

That's simple. The scope of your vote should proportionate to the amount of tax you pay. If you pay minimum wage tax, you get a basic vote but if you pay, like, a million quid in taxes you get a super-luxury turbo vote on the party and the policies.

Cuellar

Quote from: Buelligan on June 10, 2019, 01:12:28 PM
Hmm.  Needs more cowbell/thought I think.  Stuff like, do the unemployed or impoverished get to vote?  Does it mean rich people can declare small incomes (and pay basic taxes) in more than one electorate to get extra voting power (probably not but it needs considering).

My own feeling is the European citizens should have the right to European (nation-free) passports and automatically receive voting rights in the European country they are normally domiciled in.  Citizens living outside the EU (and this could also apply to British citizens, post brexit, living outside the UK) should have the life-long right to vote for representation in the EU (or UK, in a post-brexit world).

All valid points

olliebean

Quote from: Paul Calf on June 10, 2019, 01:52:23 PM
That's simple. The scope of your vote should proportionate to the amount of tax you pay. If you pay minimum wage tax, you get a basic vote but if you pay, like, a million quid in taxes you get a super-luxury turbo vote on the party and the policies.

So, pretty much like now, then.

<edit> No, sorry, not like now, because of course what happens now is the million quid taxpayer avoids paying it and ends up paying about £2.60 in tax. They still get the super-luxury turbo votes, though.

Dr Rock

It should go back to middle ages times when only the baron or squire could vote. We've tried giving the vote to peasants but the experiment has failed.

Paul Calf

Quote from: Dr Rock on June 10, 2019, 05:37:17 PM
It should go back to middle ages times when only the baron or squire could vote. We've tried giving the vote to peasants but the experiment has failed.

What's the  betting that this is going to end up being quoted out of context at some point?

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: Dr Rock on June 10, 2019, 05:37:17 PM
We've tried giving the vote to peasants but the experiment has failed.

You leftists hate the working class.

Johnny Yesno


Howj Begg

QuoteSam Coates Sky


@SamCoatesSky

Challenge for government tomorrow

Labour to use opposition day debate to "grab control" of order paper on June 25.

They will use this to block proroguing government.

All opposition MPs understood to be lined up. Team Letwin likely to back - an Exocet into the Tory leadership

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1138455274937884677


Edit: better link

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/11/labour-to-launch-bid-to-block-new-pm-from-forcing-no-deal-brexit

QuoteLabour will on Wednesday launch the first step in an audacious cross-party parliamentary bid to block a new prime minister forcing a no-deal Brexit, backed by the former Conservative minister Oliver Letwin and the SNP, Liberal Democrats and Greens.

Jeremy Corbyn has tabled a cross-party motion that, if passed, would give MPs control of the parliamentary agenda on 25 June, which they could then potentially use to begin legislation to prevent leaving the EU without a deal.

Labour will use its opposition day debate on Wednesday to attempt to pass the motion – which will need to secure the support of Conservative MPs. Unlike typical opposition day debates, the motion, if passed, will be binding.

jobotic


Buelligan

Ohh, fuck me, that's exciting stuff.  Interesting to think about whether it will pass.  Tories who've said that crashing out would be a disaster, and there are plenty of them, would put themselves in a difficult spot if they vote against.  How very interesting.

Dr Rock


Howj Begg

Presuming Letwin makes sufficient bribes, and the SNP decide not to be arses, then it will.

Buelligan

It also makes things over the summer more interesting.  If it passes and the EU have already given an extension and told May not to waste it and the no deal option is then off the table, it should put some fire under some arses to move forward (but there don't seem to be the numbers to do that), which may, quite likely, mean a general election.  Which is very interesting.

greencalx

Corbyn's acting awfully strange for someone who wants a hard Brexit more than anyone else in parliament.

Johnny Yesno


thugler

Quote from: jobotic on June 11, 2019, 05:35:15 PM
Think it'll pass?

Won't tories vote against it purely because it's corbyn's? Could see other cunts like Lib dems doing the same

Dr Rock

Quote from: thugler on June 11, 2019, 06:45:34 PM
Won't tories vote against it purely because it's corbyn's? Could see other cunts like Lib dems doing the same

QuoteAll opposition MPs understood to be lined up.

jamiefairlie

Quote from: thugler on June 11, 2019, 06:45:34 PM
Won't tories vote against it purely because it's corbyn's? Could see other cunts like Lib dems doing the same

Also Tory MPs will fear deselection at any looming GE if they block Brexit. Local parties are being infiltrated by BP types to ensure this happens.

jamiefairlie

Attorney General says legal to prorogue parliament to get around this

RoryStewartUK
says he had disagreement today with attorney general
@Geoffrey_Cox
on whether it right to prorogue or suspend parliament to force through no-deal Brexit. Cox apparently said proroguing would be lawful. Stewart says it would be profoundly undemocratic

olliebean

Like democracy is even a thing any more.

Alberon

Here and in the US it seems perfectly acceptable to wreck any amount of democratic infrastructure as long as you get what you want today through.

I fear for the next few decades. I still can't shake the feeling that this is only the beginning.

Buelligan

I have the same sort of feeling and it made me think about when things go really tits up, like the rise of Hitler followed by the Second World War and the Holocaust, how do you wind that all back down to just being normal?  And why (what changes the enthusiasm for murdering everyone and their family and bombing the fuck out all their bases into the enthusiasm for having a nice cup of tea)?  And if that can be done, and patently, it can, why don't people just remember that and not follow the path to Hell and Death in the first fucking place?

I'd like some answers.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: Buelligan on June 12, 2019, 12:52:18 PM
I have the same sort of feeling and it made me think about when things go really tits up, like the rise of Hitler followed by the Second World War and the Holocaust, how do you wind that all back down to just being normal?
I've wondered myself if people in the 1930s, as things began to ramp up, just tried to ignore it all with a "it can't happen again" attitude - one you could understand when WWI was a recent memory. Though I did ask my Granddad if he remembered much, and he said that as he never read the papers or had a radio, he didn't really notice much until September 3rd 1939.

But maybe after the second unpleasantness, there was a real feeling of "OK, enough of this" that has finally run dry as everyone who remembers what yer actual global war (sons and husbands dying by the boatload, streets getting bombed to fuck) is like dies out.

Fambo Number Mive


pigamus


Endicott

Most of Joe Public just want to get on with their lives and go with the flow. Politics isn't at the front of their minds and so they are not paying attention. As attested anecdotally by TCB's Grandad. So the question becomes, what do the people in power think they can get away with and what do their MSM owning allies think they can do to influence that.

One small test I apply, look at remembrance. These days remembrance is weaponized by the right, but there was a time 40 years ago when no-one would have dared, it was sacrosanct. Corbyn doesn't wear his poppy right. Muslims burn poppies. etc. All bullshit of course but now everyone from the WWII era is dead we are ripe for it again. One thing that keeps these bastards in check is the collective memory of previous times when things went completely to shit, and that has very little power now.

Plus a load of other complications, the above is just one aspect and a massive simplification.