Brexit Thread Seven: More of this shit

[thugler]

Funny tinge Angela, the ardent remainer.

'on sick leave' apparently

What is the fucking point of abstaining? Fuck these people. How many opportunities have they had to remove this, to absolutely fuck the tory leadership candidates and they fail yet again. Fuming.

[Johnny Yesno]

It makes no sense to me. I can only think it's part of the Get Corbyn campaign.

[Buelligan]

Oh, I don't think Ruth Smeeth would ever do something like that, would she?

[thugler]

If we can't win a vote like that for something the majority don't want to happen in any circumstances, we have no chance of winning a vote of no confidence.

[jamiefairlie]

If we can't win a vote like that for something the majority don't want to happen in any circumstances, we have no chance of winning a vote of no confidence.

Indeed. Most of this is for show so that when they press ahead with no deal, labour can pick up the pieces saying "we tried our best to stop this".

[pancreas]

The relevant CLPs need to table votes of no confidence right away. Ideally those VoNCs would come from enough branches that it could be proven that they're living on borrowed time. I'm aghast, obviously. Somehow this will be Corbyn's fault, of course. Fuck the fuck off.

[Huxleys Babkins]

Surely some of those abstentions were because of pairing and illness. Be careful demanding people be deselected until we know the precise reason why.

The noes can get fucked though.

[imitationleather]

Surely some of those abstentions were because of pairing and illness. Be careful demanding people be deselected until we know the precise reason why.

The ayes can get fucked though.

Having had Jim Fitzpatrick as my previous MP I would say it was definitely due to pairing or illness in his case.

[NoSleep]

It makes no sense to me. I can only think it's part of the Get Corbyn campaign.

Obviously eradicating Corbyn is far more important than letting the UK fall from a precipice.

[bgmnts]

Opened the window this morning, Brexit still everywhere.

[BlodwynPig]

Opened the window this morning, Brexit still everywhere.

First thing to hit me on my glorious return to Blighty...that fucking Daily Express front page.

Aneurysm and depression immediately. Fucking shithole country

[jobotic]

I can't fathom why people who would rather see this country collapse and see fascists in power rather than risk a socialist government are allowed to have any place in the Labour party.

Fucking filth.

[Buelligan]

[Paul Calf]

A referendum is more like a national election than the EU elections or locals are. If you want to vote in a national election or a referendum that steers the whole course of the country in the long term you have a simple option - https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/citizenship-application-forms


On a related note, what does it feel like to have your every opinion about everything entirely shaped by your pathological inability to accept you lost the 2016 referendum?

Boris Johnson - 114
Jeremy Hunt - 43
Michael Gove - 37
Dominic Raab - 27
Sajid Javid - 23
Matt Hancock - 20
Mark Harper - 10
Rory Stewart - 19
Esther McVey - 9
Andrea Leadsom - 11

Are you fucking happy now, you stupid cunt?

[jobotic]

I expect he's very happy to see Bannon's boy in power.

[Paul Calf]

I think my psychic powers are kicking in:

Biggy: Ah, but don't you see that this well just show up the whole noelibral show for what it is any anyway it's everyone elses fault.

[Johnny Yesno]

'Boris will drain the swamp.'

[NoSleep]

Swamp the drain more like.

[imitationleather]

Drain his lungs plz.

[Huxleys Babkins]

Jesus wept.

Just four of the 11-strong Common foreign affairs select committee attended their road-trip to Northern Ireland today.

Four of the five Conservative MPs and three of the five Labour MPs did not turn up in Armagh, where the first of two outreach events with local communities are taking place.

It is not clear why so few turned up, but the Tory leadership vote was not a barrier as the Tory chair Tom Tugendhat was able to attend and take part in the ballot by arranging a proxy vote

The committee is meeting community groups, representatives from local businesses and elected public representatives .

Among those not are Brexiter Priti Patel and Andrew Rosindell who has said that the stalemate over the border is a "red herring from day one" and that the only way to resolve it is through bilateral talks between the UK and Ireland. Rosindell made the remarks in Ireland last month when he attended a session of the British Irish Parliamentary Assembly, which he co-chairs.

[Mrs Wogans lemon drizzle]

A referendum is more like a national election than the EU elections or locals are. If you want to vote in a national election or a referendum that steers the whole course of the country in the long term you have a simple option - https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/citizenship-application-forms


On a related note, what does it feel like to have your every opinion about everything entirely shaped by your pathological inability to accept you lost the 2016 referendum?

You seem like a well educated chap.  Do you honestly not see any downsides for leaving the EU?  Or are you just willing to take any negatives to us leaving as a price worth paying?

[Howj Begg]

Clive Lewis:

https://labourlist.org/2019/06/lets-show-brexit-for-what-it-always-has-been-a-hard-right-tory-project/

Nothing says 'taking back control' and clawing back sovereignty like suspending a democratically elected parliament to stop it getting in the way of an unelected Prime Minister. If this were mooted in any other part of the world, we would rightly condemn it as a descent into authoritarianism.

But proroguing parliament is an idea that has been seriously floated by candidates standing to be the next Tory leader and PM. Like frontrunner Boris Johnson, the proponents of this idea are determined to deliver a hard Brexit whatever it takes, and potentially a no deal Brexit.

Such a course of action is not just a threat to democracy. It would be an all-out assault on our living standards, wipe out thousands of jobs, put peace in Northern Ireland at risk and push Britain into whatever race-to-the-bottom trade deal Donald Trump and his friends want to cook up. With a leaked cabinet note stating that it would take six to eight months to stockpile medicine supplies in the event of a no deal scenario, it's sheer recklessness for anyone to defend it as an option that should remain on the table.

Wednesday's opposition day motion, tabled by Jeremy Corbyn with cross-party support, was meant to be a step towards preventing no deal. The result of the vote, with eight of our own Labour MPs shamefully voting it down, is disappointing to say the least. But this is far from the end of our fight. Labour will continue to do all we can to stop Britain from crashing out of the EU, a scenario that would devastate the working-class communities we represent.

However, we need to face the stark reality of the situation here. Unless another outcome is agreed, the UK is set to leave the EU by default on 31 October, whether or not we are ready. In March, Labour led the successful efforts to avoid leaving without a deal by securing an extension. It is unclear whether the EU would grant us one again given that parliament is no closer to finding a way forward – and even if it does, the deadline cannot be pushed forward forever. This extended period of limbo is causing debilitating uncertainty, not least for the millions of EU citizens living in the UK, and is already losing jobs.

Whoever ends up occupying Number 10 this summer will be faced with the same impossible task that ended the 'leadership' of Theresa May, no matter how much they big up their negotiating skills or how much they talk about Britain's greatness. As their predecessor once famously said, and as the EU will be quick to remind them: "nothing has changed!".

With the Tories tearing themselves apart, no general election in sight and parliament once again failing to provide a clear route to safety, it is increasingly clear that the only way out of the impasse is putting the EU question back to the people. In such a referendum, Labour could have an inspiring message. We could promise to end the mess that is sucking up all of our political energy, and instead direct our efforts towards transforming Britain.

Instead of arguing over deals and customs unions for years and years to come (no, that won't end when we leave), we could talk about the real solutions we need to bring the country together: a Green New Deal that ends austerity, tackles inequality, invests in left-behind communities, renewables and sustainability, providing decent public services, jobs and housing for all. All the while combating some of the underlying causes of far-right nationalism that fuels Brexit.

We could show Brexit for what it always has been: a hard-right Tory project spearheaded by millionaires to deregulate the economy, attack our rights and blame foreigners for the problems that arise when we have weak unions, privatisation and devastating austerity. There is no time to waste. To avoid the disaster of a Tory hard Brexit, we must throw our energy into fighting for a public vote.

[Dr Rock]

If Remain had won three years ago, does anyone think Farage and Biggy would have just dropped the whole thing and we would never have heard anything about it again? That they've wouldn't have declared the result void because this, that and the other. That their aims for leaving the EU would't play by the same rule book they used before a referendum was even announced.

[TrenterPercenter]

Honestly just heard one of the most deranged conversations on LBC i've heard in a long time.

Shelagh Fogarty: We seem to have lost the art of compromise

Caller: Yes Shelagh I think me and you are the only two people left in the country that are willing to compromise.  I didn't like Mays deal and it would have made us worse off than we would have been but I would have voted for it.  Now you have Labour with leave voters in the north and remain voters in the south so is sitting on the fence.  The tories that are moving towards no deal.

Shelagh Fogarty: So yes I suppose really the Lib Dems are the only ones that like us want a compromise.  They say that they have looked at all the data and we know it is going to be bad to leave so we should just remain.


What the fuck is this shit?!  Labour are not compromising "they are sitting on the fence" whilst the Lib Dems are compromising by saying we should just remain??!

This country will forever be fucked unless political analysis (propaganda) like this is relegated out of mainstream media.  Its morally bankrupt and further more an affront against logic and the mental well-being of people.

[Johnny Yesno]

This country will forever be fucked unless political analysis (propaganda) like this is relegated out of mainstream media.  Its morally bankrupt and further more an affront against logic and the mental well-being of people.

It's easy to see why people become politically disengaged when faced with these constant 'black is actually white unlike what you thought' messages. It signals that the system is either corrupt or that it's far too complicated for the likes of you to understand.

On that score, this discussion of how the left should dismantle some of the right's arguments is worth a look (also posted in the Corbyn thread, as I wasn't sure which was the most appropriate):

The People's Republic of Walmart | Interview with Leigh Phillips and Michal Rozworski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUXMmq1p3g0

[greencalx]

This is the thing. Corbyn the "extremist" is one of the few that's actually come up with a workable compromise. But everyone hates it because it's neither one thing nor the other. Or, to put it another way, a compromise.

[Paul Calf]

In this context- more than any other - "compromise" means "do exactly what I want".

[Suki Bapswent]

This country will forever be fucked unless political analysis (propaganda) like this is relegated out of mainstream media.

"I think the people of this country have had quite enough of experts..."

[Mrs Wogans lemon drizzle]

May ruled out any kind of compromise when she drew her so called red lines which directly led to the fudge which is her deal. The magical thinking on any kind of deal that would give us the benefits of membership without any of the obligations was clear to most rational people from day one.  Bizarre really.

[Zetetic]

It might be to produce a genuine compromise, but it probably involves ending the territorial integrity of the UK.

But if some of the most important positions for each side are 'retaining rights for European citizens' and 'ending all rights for European citizens' respectively, it's hard to see what a middle position looks like (without pretending that you don't know what the word 'rights' means).

I'd be more than happy to give up literally every other aspect of the UK's relationship with the other member states. Fuck it, let's end all trade in goods and services, and block all capital flows - fine by me. But maintain - unilaterally - the rights provided by European citizenship in the UK. That's a hell of a compromise, isn't it?