Brexit Thread Seven: More of this shit

[holyzombiejesus]

Fucking count takes place on a Sunday afternoon and evening. Day before a Bank Holiday too.  Was looking forward to buying a swimming paddling pool for HZJ jr with my earnings but probably won't be able to participate now, and if I do a proportion of the money will have to go on a hotel :(

[biggytitbo]

I don't find it unclear. The position is: do the minimum amount of damage to society...

...by handcuffing ourselves forever more to the chief enforcer of neo-liberal orthodoxy on the continent.

[Paul Calf]

Biggy, why don't you take the day off? Everyone who's going to be convinced by this neoliberal club bollocks has been. What's the point in continuing to hammer it?

[pancreas]

Yes. Honestly, please fuck off. Go for a walk. Go fuck a cow pat.

[biggytitbo]

Why don't you take a day off from pretending the EU is something it isn't?

Anyway, I think we should stop facism by banning other political parties - https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/spain-vox-far-right-brexit-party-farage-ukip-gerard-batten-a8873691.html


I'm sure jobotic will agree.

[Darles Chickens]

Spread the word!



But yeah, I've actually reached the point beyond despair where I see the likely success of Farage, and am starting to tune out of it all now with a sense of resignation.

As with the 2017 GE, there'll need to be some coordination if anti-EU parties are to be fought effectively.  There's certainly room for the smaller explicitly pro-EU parties alongside Labour, but I expect Farage's party to dominate - unlike any of the others, his message and branding is loud and clear, and, luckily for him, the media give him plenty of airtime.

I don't find it unclear. The position is: do the minimum amount of damage to society. Which currently is taking the form: BRINO plus 'confirmatory vote'—which secretly means second referendum, I think.

But the Labour Brexit doesn't seem like BRINO to me - it's "a" customs union and that opaque pledge about access to the single market, which doesn't include freedom of movement of people as far as I can understand; and the "confirmatory vote" is often barely mentioned.  To me it's pretty unclear; it certainly doesn't sound pro-EU, but the single market thing is a mystery - access à la Switzerland or access à la Canada are two very different propositions.  I think staunch Remainers could get behind an EEA/Swiss type model, but that doesn't sound like what they're proposing.  Or is it?  Unclear!

If a person wanted to send a message to the UK Government and the EU about his/her desire to continue to be an EU member, would they vote for a Labour candidate even if it aligned best with their politics?  I'm not sure.  It shouldn't make a difference, but politics seems devoid of nuance these days.  If the Government can look at EU election results and point to x% being for parties who've pledged to leave the EU (including Labour), as they continue to do with the 2017 GE results, that doesn't really help further the cause for the softest of soft Brexits or a rethink.

[Darles Chickens]

Anyway, I think we should stop facism by banning other political parties - https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/spain-vox-far-right-brexit-party-farage-ukip-gerard-batten-a8873691.html

You a big fan of Vox and what they stand for?

[biggytitbo]

...and, luckily for him, the media give him plenty of airtime...

The TIGs get loads of airtime aswell but they have achieved literally nothing electorally, whereas Farage actually won the last European Elections, has 11 MEPs and is currently polling 1st. That's how airtime is usually doled out I believe.


Of course Farage also said if we'd actually left the EU on the 29th he'd have left politics altogether so its another self inflicted wound.

[pancreas]

Freedom of movement would have to be accepted in Labour's plan. They have gone quiet about that for obvious reasons.

[jobotic]

Of course Farage also said if we'd actually left the EU on the 29th he'd have left politics altogether so its another self inflicted wound.

Fight the far-right by doing exactly what they want. That again.

[biggytitbo]

Fight the far right by actually respecting the biggest democratic vote in history and leaving the EU you meant to say.

It's not like nobody warned you. The remain establishments behaviour the last 3 years is a textbook example on how to stoke up populism so  don't be surprised.

[Replies From View]

It's like being heckled by Nigel Farage himself, isn't it.

[jobotic]

DAY OF RECKONING!

[Uncle TechTip]

The TIGs get loads of airtime aswell but they have achieved literally nothing electorally, whereas Farage actually won the last European Elections, has 11 MEPs and is currently polling 1st. That's how airtime is usually doled out I believe.


Of course Farage also said if we'd actually left the EU on the 29th he'd have left politics altogether so its another self inflicted wound.

Farage hasn't been UKIP leader for three years now? Yet he still gets prominence.

[Buelligan]

Of course Farage also said if we'd actually left the EU on the 29th he'd have left politics altogether so its another self inflicted wound.

Odd that isn't it?  If we'd have been obedient, done what he wants, then he'd have left us alone.  Just done that one thing.

And yet, he says his new soapbox is about so much more than Brexit.  A party called The Brexit Party is about so much more than Brexit.

So which is it then, would his work have been done if we'd left on the 29th or not?

[greencalx]

Labour's Brexit plan is EEA.

[jamiefairlie]

Labour's Brexit plan is EEA.

Not unless they back freedom of movement.

[greencalx]

As I said, Labour's plan is EEA, with all that it entails (even though some of this might not be being said openly).

There is nothing else that is compatible with it.

[jobotic]

[Replies From View]

"For one time only I will be a complete and total fuckwit."

[Dr Rock]

Latest yougov voting intentions poll. Do you still think its a good idea to have these elections?
European Parliament voting intention:

BREX: 27%
LAB: 22%
CON: 15%
GRN: 10%
LDEM: 9%
UKIP: 7%
CHUK: 6%

via
@YouGov

Farage polling more than all the hard remain parties combined.

YouGov would over-represent the ignorant as usual. But probably not far wrong - 27% of the country are mad keen Brexit  fanatics. 34% if you add it UKIP. But for the burning issue of the day, that we are told the 'nation has decided' and is 'the will of the people', and a thing that might not even happen now - about 70% of the electorate do not seem to want to send a strong message about how passionate about Brexit they are.

Funny you call any party except maybe the Greens 'hard remain.' there.

[NoSleep]

WB Mr Rock. Ignore biggy, BTW.

[Buelligan]

Yes, welcome back!

[Dr Rock]

Nice to be back. I thank Neil for his tolerance and/or forgiveness.

[Buelligan]

Aye, he deserves it.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Focus on the main game, not the sideshows. The main game is a Labour government.

The Tories polling for the locals and the EU elections is abysmal. The next few months could (let's hope eh) see them lose big time and be seriously wounded as a campaigning force due to flight of funding and grassroots campaigning. This further sends them into panic and implosion in Westminster.

Hardline Remainers can vote for their own toothless alternatives if they like but they need to realise which seats will accidentally turn blue if they split the vote, and hold their nose to vote Labour in those.

Labour should probably support a confirmatory vote post-local elections, go in fully for it afterwards on the basis that they will implement whichever decision is reached, on a demand they are able to negotiate which options are on the ballot/how it will work and commit to NOT campaigning for or against any of the options on a leadership level - but allow their MPs to campaign individually - and hope that shores up their vote.

[Fambo Number Mive]

Pelosi: Let me be clear: if the Brexit deal undermines the Good Friday Accords, there will be no U.S.-U.K. trade agreement. #Dáil100

https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1118625935794868225

[Paul Calf]

First good reason I've seen to undermine the GFA.

[jobotic]

More reason to be intensely relaxed. No doubt threatening journalists is something we can approve of too.

https://www.channel4.com/news/revealed-brexit-group-covered-up-its-targeting-of-right-wing-extremists?fbclid=IwAR0jxZLiLrBe-6-b2-l9N8j0bMCnqG01rv799yby3gVE18XT6NS5MWWntPI

[Johnny Yesno]

The Leaflet tho