Brexit Thread Seven: More of this shit

[Dr Rock]

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

16 April - ComRes poll has latest Remain/Brexit 'if you were to vote tomorrow' thingies. Remain are on 52%, where they've been before, Leave are on 38%. 14 point difference there, only 10% undecided. It's been much the same a whole fucking year.

(And remove the 'don't knows' on the basis they are less likely to vote, the gap is a 16 point lead for Remain, on 58%. and leave on 42%)

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Similar margins existed in the run up to the vote. It would be outrageously complacent to think these aren't subject to dramatic changes when a campaign starts and the rhetoric is booming loudly.

[Buelligan]

I'd say, if they did have another vote on it, the main difference (apart from hopefully avoiding asking such a fucking nebulous un-deliverable ill thought-out question and a lot of people being far better informed) would be that most, on both sides, would be less complacement.  I think the turnout would probably be even higher.

Has Britain finally fucked itself? 

[Alberon]

You would hope that since they can no longer promise everything to everyone that the Leavers would lose support. Nothing is certain though.

But maybe one tactic to pursue the Don't Knows is to point out that if the Deal is agreed then Brexit negotiations grind on for two more years. If we vote Remain then this whole shitshow stops dead right away.

[Buelligan]

I know.  Just imagine that.  The lovely birds singing, clean sheets and realising it's Saturday morning and all of that was just a horrible dream.

[Dr Rock]

Similar margins existed in the run up to the vote. It would be outrageously complacent to think these aren't subject to dramatic changes when a campaign starts and the rhetoric is booming loudly.

To some extent, but demographics are different now. And people are entrenched and more knowledgable, I don't think you'd see the swing that happened in the referendum. Lies like 'it will be the easiest deal in history' can't be used, there wasn't the widespread opinion that staying in the EU really does seem to be the best option, as there is now. I think giving a confirmatory second referendum, knowing what we know now, and what the polls suggest, is the right thing to do. If Leave win again, fuck it, we're supposedly leaving anyway.

[Replies From View]

I know.  Just imagine that.  The lovely birds singing, clean sheets and realising it's Saturday morning and all of that was just a horrible dream.

Ah man imagine turning on 6 Music right now and finding out that Adam and Joe are still doing their show.  That would probably be the best "waking up to find out Brexit was all a dream" moment ever.

[hummingofevil]

Got to laugh at all the #FBPE types moaning to fuck about how the emergence of the centrist parties that they were all wanking on two months ago is going to split the remain vote and let Farage rinse the EU election just like we were telling them was exactly what was going to happen.

[Paul Calf]

Yeah, it's not very funny though is it?

[Buelligan]

.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Yeah, it's not very funny though is it?

It's funny if the Tories go down to historic defeats in the locals and EU elections. Bang in a vote of no-confidence.

[Mr_Simnock]

It's funny if the Tories go down to historic defeats in the locals and EU elections. Bang in a vote of no-confidence.

I think the highlighted very well could happen

[Paul Calf]

At the expense of sending to Europe representatives of a party whose senior members are in open admiration of a political creed that enslaved and murdered millions of people and almost destroyed the continent.

It doesn't feel great, does it?

I'm not sure how likely it is to happen though. I think it's more likely a ploy to scare May into withdrawing from the European Elections.

[Buelligan]

Watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_YUtWMlMMA 

[Paul Calf]

Yeah, I've seen that. What a shower of fucking arseholes. How could anyone not a nailed-on exclusionary ethno-nationalist even consider voting for them?

[Twed]

Why does nobody on the British right have a neck? It's ridiculous. There should not be this much correlation between physical appearance and political alignment.

[BlodwynPig]

Why does nobody on the British right have a neck? It's ridiculous. There should not be this much correlation between physical appearance and political alignment.

I've got no neck.

How do you crane?

Terrible.

[Buelligan]

Yeah, I've seen that. What a shower of fucking arseholes. How could anyone not a nailed-on exclusionary ethno-nationalist even consider voting for them?

I find it interesting that these people are obviously working hard to produce lies to promote their own positions.  Why? 

If you believe in something, if you believe that a course of action is right or good, why do you need to lie to support it?  Surely, the reasons that brought you to that belief are convincing enough to share with others? 

Seemingly not in this case.  Which leads me to consider what those reasons are, what are the reasons that convinced Banks, Farage, what are the private reasons that convinced them so strongly that they're not just voting, not just campaigning, they're leading, spending, working?

Obviously their reasons are highly motivating but not shareable.  I find that interesting.  I wonder if they're private because they're about self-advancement, profit, personal power, nothing at all to do with helping the people or loving the Country.

[Paul Calf]

Oh, and here's the leader of the Brexit Party on how to 'Stem the NHS cash haemorrhage' (stop it spending money to treat people):

Is the NHS offering hospitals or hotels? If you go into hospital in Nepal, you get a bed but no sheets, no food, and no care except medical care. The doctor sticks a prescription on the end of the bed and your relatives have to go and buy the drugs and bring them back for administering. Your family bring in your food. That is how Nepal manages to spend £100 per year per head on healthcare. Obviously such a scheme is 'unthinkable' here, but why? Why shouldn't people pay for food that they would obviously pay for if they were not in hospital?

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/simple-ways-to-stem-the-health-service-cash-haemorrhage/

So, you see, it's not just Muslims she hates. She's not keen on the poor getting medical treatment either.

This is the party that will lead the fightback for the working classes.

[Dr Rock]

I find it interesting that these people are obviously working hard to produce lies to promote their own positions.  Why? 

If you believe in something, if you believe that a course of action is right or good, why do you need to lie to support it?  Surely, the reasons that brought you to that belief are convincing enough to share with others? 

To achieve what is wanted, freedom from the EU (for various political and economic benefits for those in charge) the public must be fed stories that frighten them. Uncontrolled immigration, unprotected borders, these has been working well as a bogeyman for decades and is arguably why Brexit narrowly won - even though stopping French and Spanish people coming to live and work in the UK is nothing to do with asylum seekers sneaking into the country. Referendums should not be called on issues that are connected to national panics, but one was, and here we are, heading in the wrong direction because of ignorance, fear and lies.

[Buelligan]

Absolutely, that's obvious.  But what I'm saying is why do this, why feel like you need to do this, if the thing you're selling is such a good thing?

Going back to that little vid about Arron Banks's fake immigration news, am I the only one who thinks it's not quite right that seemingly serving members of the SAS are permitted to work for private individuals like Banks?  Are they working for him or is he working for Them?

On 1 September 2014, 21 and 23 SAS left United Kingdom Special Forces and were placed under the command of 1st Intelligence Surveillance and Reconnaissance Brigade.

[Dr Rock]

Yes I thought you were being rhetorical, and knew damn well why. The answer then, is that the facts on their own were not seen as strong enough win their argument. Or every little helps.

What I want to know is, what repercussions are there for this 'fake news,' intended to sway an important referendum?

[Buelligan]

There don't seem to be any at the moment.  Make sure as many people as possible get to see the fakery when you have evidence, best we can do currently, I think.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

At the expense of sending to Europe representatives of a party whose senior members are in open admiration of a political creed that enslaved and murdered millions of people and almost destroyed the continent.

It doesn't feel great, does it?.

That already happens and no it's terrible, but the defeat of the Tories can be achieved by splitting the right, the tactic the right have used on the left for decades (and the left have done to themselves).

[Noodle Lizard]

Just got my passport renewed — I've been Brexited!

[Ferris]

Just got my passport renewed — I've been Brexited!

Out of interest, when was yours printed? Ferris Jr's arrived in the mail last week and his still had "EU" on it. There must have been a weird intermediary period but I can't figure out when...

Edit: just checked Fezza Jr's passport - his was printed on April 12. By the way, getting a UK passport for someone not born in the UK was a fucking pain in the arse.

[Replies From View]

Why does nobody on the British right have a neck? It's ridiculous. There should not be this much correlation between physical appearance and political alignment.

Clive Anderson came up with all of Nigel Farage's ideas in an improv session.

[Paul Calf]

Why does nobody on the British right have a neck? It's ridiculous. There should not be this much correlation between physical appearance and political alignment.

It's so we can't guillotine the cunts when they start a war that kills two generations.

[Buelligan]

Why does nobody on the British right have a neck? It's ridiculous. There should not be this much correlation between physical appearance and political alignment.

Some have a great deal of neck, not necessarily an attractive thing, when all's said.  I mean, does anyone else think this looks like something else trying to inhabit a human body?

"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." 

[biggytitbo]

Ireland suddenly feels a bit less enthusiastic about the EU - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-tax-policy-veto-scrap-european-commission-brexit-ireland-a8729396.html

The European Commission has proposed scrapping member states' veto on tax policy, in a move that could see levies imposed on EU countries against their will.

Brussels says the requirement of unanimity for tax policy is out-dated and that moving to a system of qualified majority voting would help speed up the legislative process.

The bloc has struggled to agree ambitious policies such as a tax on US tech giants because of opposition from low-tax countries such as Luxembourg and Ireland.

Are the gimps back in Westminster today? Be interesting to see how much longer they can drag out these 'talks'.