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Queerbaiting and $$$

Started by Noonling, April 09, 2019, 11:47:45 AM

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MidnightShambler

Quote from: Better Midlands on April 09, 2019, 01:30:49 PM
FTFY

I only used to bring it up whenever we were out in public and I saw a woman. Or we were at a home and one was on the telly. It's not like I made a big, sexy deal out of it or anything.

Cloud

Rather than gatekeeping why not just let people identify with whatever sexuality they think describes their feelings best?  Besides, there's more to sexual, physical and romantic attraction than just whether you like dicks and/or fannies and where and how often you like putting them.  People just seem to cope easier with categorisation.

As for making a profit from it, are only straight people allowed to make a profit from sexuality, because they kind of do that quite a lot?

Sorry but to me it seems like a term invented by cunts who use phrases like "virtue signalling" to try and silence/dismiss people they disagree with, under the accusation that anyone expressing themselves is only doing it for popularity, likes, profit, whatever.  I'm sure it's a term being used by LGBTs as well, but can't help wonder if it's yet another term created to sow division.

Phrases overheard at the Conservative Party Conference:

"And how does one bait a queer?"


Shoulders?-Stomach!

QuoteRather than gatekeeping why not just let people identify with whatever sexuality they think describes their feelings best?

Though this is a relevant point, I think it's fair, after a certain threshold of evidence to accuse people of insincerity or taking stances to get attention/money. The assumption everyone is always presenting the genuine version of themselves is a bit naive, particularly when it comes to public figures (especially in the month where a judge found that on TV Lorraine Kelly* was in essence a different entity than her true self)

*Whose gayness we are not inspecting

machotrouts

Quote from: Kelvin on April 09, 2019, 12:48:07 PM
Out of interest, what's the word for a person who is attracted to men, woman, and other non-binary genders? Is there a fancy, modern word, or is that still classed as bisexuality? The latter doesn't seem applicable.

As Cuellar mentioned, pansexual is the more explicitly inclusive term, though it's worth adding that "bisexual", as a term coined when most would have taken a gender binary for granted, only really excludes non-binary people as a sort of linguistic oversight – it'd be unusual to use the word specifically to denote an aversion to anyone outside the gender binary. Plenty of self-identified bisexuals will give you a definition like "attraction to two or more genders" to avoid any such implication.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Others will say tish, or 'no I really am binary as all fuck mate, get off me with that felisgender shart'

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

I don't believe that Ora and Grande are truly bisexual. Do they have any evidence to support their claims? A video would do.

buzby

None of this is new - there was the 'furore' in 2014 around Jessie J, who had originally said she was bisexual but then said it was just a phase as was now straight.
https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/entertainment/news/a26202/jessie-j-bisexuality-phase-twitter/
A couple of years earlier Chloe Govan wrote and unofficial biography of her, saying that when she was just starting out she was a lesbian, but "She was advised not to come out, though. Certain people thought being bi was trendy, exotic and a fashion statement. It would increase her allure."

Icehaven

Quote from: buzby on April 09, 2019, 03:25:03 PM
None of this is new - there was the 'furore' in 2014 around Jessie J, who had originally said she was bisexual but then said it was just a phase as was now straight.
https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/entertainment/news/a26202/jessie-j-bisexuality-phase-twitter/
A couple of years earlier Chloe Govan wrote and unofficial biography of her, saying that when she was just starting out she was a lesbian, but "She was advised not to come out, though. Certain people thought being bi was trendy, exotic and a fashion statement. It would increase her allure."


Maybe it's just a relatively new thing for women then, as Brett Anderson (and others probably) did it in the early 90's and he in turn was just carrying on the tradition from Bowie et al. Although I do recall Pink and Sporty Spice having quite a sizeable lesbian following in the early 2000s despite being straight, by butching it up a bit.

Cuellar


Icehaven


Quote from: icehaven on April 09, 2019, 03:32:39 PM
Oh yeah, forgot about them.

Was going to mention them, saw this the other day - was an interesting watch

https://youtu.be/jNNLMzJCnLY

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

I bet it was an interesting watch, you dirty etc......

Quote from: Elderly Sumo Prophecy on April 09, 2019, 03:45:42 PM
I bet it was an interesting watch, you dirty etc......

It's more about the two Russian guys who created their image.


Not that that stopped me like.

machotrouts

The third and final t.A.T.u. album 'Waste Management' not being available to listen to on Spotify is bisexual erasure

I'd rather have a cup of tea.

I thought Erasure were already bisexual.

Kelvin

I just find the premise of the OP and several other posts in this thread a bit silly. If a person is bisexual/gay/lesbian, then they're entitled to mention it. And how can you know if they aren't? Several posts seem to be saying that it's either faked or focussed on for media attention... but how can you possibly know that? If Ora Rita out of Johnny Briggs says she fancies ladies, but hasn't ever done the deed, what leads you to the conclusion that she is therefore being insincere when discussing it?

Funcrusher

Wasn't Rita Ora seeing Cara Delavine at one point?

Endicott

Has Grande actually claimed anything about herself? From the article in the OP all she's done is write a song about it. As I understand song writing, it's often done that you write a song from someone else's perspective. Why the assumption that it's about herself?

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

You're also assuming that she wrote the song herself, which she probably didn't.

Twed

I'd like to hear more about these constraints on bisexuality where you have to have an equal number of partners from every gender. I want to read a book about this, written exclusively by a straight person. I would read this book from cover to cover in one sitting, immediately.

Cuellar

But if you can just say 'oh i'm bisexual now' you can literally walk into a woman's bathroom and get your knob out in front of a 5 year old.

Where will it end.

Twed

I think statistically about 5.4 inches from the public mound.

Noodle Lizard

There was the term "weekend lesbian" (not so much a male gay equivalent) which actual lesbians used to describe women who'd get off with girls in public, usually for male attention, but never actually pursue relationships with them.  I think there's definitely truth to that, and it is also quite easy to score points by identifying as something unproveable either way.

Then again, I think women are maybe naturally far more flexible with that kind of thing anyway, in the sense that you're far more likely to find an otherwise straight woman with gay sexual experiences than a man — maybe because female-female sex is generally less aggressive/invasive, I don't know.  My ex identified as bisexual, had sex with women, but wouldn't pursue romantic relationships with them because it hadn't gone well in the past, didn't like the dynamic or whatever.  My current partner identified fully as a lesbian, and was engaged to a woman, but now (for obvious reasons) kind of has to identify as bisexual on account of being exclusively in love with a man an' that — but she's still only attracted to women otherwise.  That's a very unique situation, of course.

I reckon it's a complicated spectrum and probably not really worth analyzing too much in any one instance, but it's not unreasonable to suspect some public figures may be using it a bit cynically.

Cloud

Yeah I think in summary... obviously some people do these things for attention or money or both.  Just let's not assume everyone does just because they're something you don't like (such as famous), not that I know much of Grande but didn't get the impression she was particularly onerous.  Not trying to white knight the famous, it's just that sometimes they can set genuine examples that can actually help, or at least be trying to.

Maybe it's just my outlook, preferring to give benefit of the doubt.  I have a nicer time of it taking the 'innocent until proven guilty' kind of approach but maybe that's why I tend to feel so out of place surrounded by misanthropists

(Too tired to make proper sense and put thoughts into words very well right now)

Noodle Lizard

I expect the problem some people have, especially if they're LGBT themselves, is that it feels like their sexuality and all the struggles they may have had with it are being co-opted by rich celebrity dullards who seem to be "opting in".  Like, it's very easy for someone like Ariana Grande to come out and say "I can be a bit gay too" and get praised to high heavens for it, or even be called "brave" or whatever, but it's not quite the same as being mercilessly bullied or disowned by your family for your sexual orientation.

Then, on the other hand, high-profile people coming out and saying stuff like that could at least be seen to "normalize" it somewhat, which may be beneficial in the long-run.  But it's also easy to see how people who aren't already convinced could see this as being "Well, everyone's saying they're gay now" - same with depression or other mental illnesses, I suppose.  Hard to say, really.

flotemysost

I think a lot of the skepticism around young, conventionally attractive female celebrities declaring - or in many cases, just coyly hinting - that they're attracted to other women is that as well as making $$$ from the woke population (which strikes me as a more recent thing), it could just be seen as playing into a very common sexual fantasy (see: the jokey responses here saying we need video evidence).

And if this was the comments section on Yahoo! News or something I bet you 95% of comments would be along the lines of 'CORR I WONDER IF SHE'D LIKE TO MEET MY MISSUS, ONLY IF I CAN JOIN IN AS WELL THOUGH, DON'T WANT THEM HAVING ALL THE FUN LOL!!!' (and the other 5% saying 'In my day performers didn't need to be controversial to sell records, look at Cliff Richard, family values mean nothing these days' etc. etc.).

I'm not suggesting that IS the only reason celebrities say this stuff in interviews, but I can imagine the sort of media commentary that focuses on how taboo and sexy it is that X celeb is potentially bi isn't all that helpful to bi or gay non-celebrities. However, as society/popular culture gradually becomes more tolerant and aware of LGBTQ+ people, it does seem like there's less of the 'Ooh, isn't this naughty and erotic' air about these reports/interviews than few years ago. But then, I guess that raises the potential that they're juts going after the woke $$$, as posited by the OP.

I don't know if any male celebrities who've hinted at bisexuality or flirted with homoeroticism (as opposed to flat out coming out as bi/gay) have attracted quite the same response in the media. I mean, there are clearly massive swathes of the population who do find the idea of two blokes going at it a turn-on (not just gay men), but it doesn't seem to elicit the same knee-jerk unquestioning reaction of being A Sexy Thing, it's still got an air of being a bit niche and edgy.




up_the_hampipe

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on April 09, 2019, 09:22:16 PM
My current partner identified fully as a lesbian, and was engaged to a woman, but now (for obvious reasons) kind of has to identify as bisexual on account of being exclusively in love with a man an' that — but she's still only attracted to women otherwise.  That's a very unique situation, of course.

Ooo, stud!

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: flotemysost on April 09, 2019, 11:05:33 PM
I think a lot of the skepticism around young, conventionally attractive female celebrities declaring - or in many cases, just coyly hinting - that they're attracted to other women is that as well as making $$$ from the woke population (which strikes me as a more recent thing), it could just be seen as playing into a very common sexual fantasy (see: the jokey responses here saying we need video evidence).

There might be some truth to that, too.  I remember Madonna and Britney Spears and I think Christina Aguilera giving that a go during some performance in the early 2000s.  That felt cynical as fuck even when I was 13 or so - manufactured by some male producer.