Author Topic: Blue-green conundrum  (Read 1172 times)

FerriswheelBueller

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Blue-green conundrum
« on: April 12, 2019, 04:49:57 AM »
Why are there so many good names for greeny-blue colours? We don’t this many names for other in between colours like orangey-red or yellowy-green, so what gives? (Or do we?)

Teal, cyan, turquoise, aquamarine, petrol-blue, cerulean, seafoam green, jade, celeste, keppel, robin/duck-egg blue, and those are just the ones off the top of my head (although, this has been bugging me all day so I’ve had plenty of time to add to my list). They’re all basically the same colour so what gives. Is this just my ignorance of other colours?

And side-issue: why do I know so many green-blue colours?

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2019, 04:52:36 AM »
It’s probably because people ave spent so long looking at the sky/oceans right? That would kind of make sense. Azure - is that another one or not really?

pancreas

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2019, 04:53:09 AM »
And side-issue: why do I know so many green-blue colours?

I'm afraid you must be a gay, child and wife notwithstanding.

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2019, 05:18:19 AM »
I'm afraid you must be a gay, child and wife notwithstanding.

It would certainly answer a lot of questions about the blue-green thing. Less so the wife and child, but we’ll explain them away in the biopic.

Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2019, 06:41:53 AM »
Get over it!

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2019, 07:15:14 AM »
It’s because of all those boffins talking about the nuances of CSO all day.

biggytitbo

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2019, 07:56:37 AM »
You're cheating a bit with petrol-blue, seafoam green, robin/duck-egg blue etc, you could do that with any color 'bell-end purple', 'taint brown', 'Richard Madeley orange' etc etc.

The whole premise is a total sham.

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2019, 07:59:37 AM »
True isn't it:.

Scheckter
Bazant
Pleiotropic
Gemblas
Frord
Gasq-le-bains
Kakakalakajala
Dômel
Zaze
Bols
No. 84
Pulchrim
Clark
Luzor
Katherine
Dusk Elk
Ungulate
Patina Froid
Con Agua
Airline
Anchialine
Buntistent
Gethine
Kashubian
Limpe

Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2019, 08:06:20 AM »
I heard that Blindboy chap talking about the colour blue on his podshart and he was explaining the theory that blue is a recent invention colourwise. Mainly based on an analysis of Homers Iliad and how it doesnt appear once despite all the sky and ocean in there.

It was late/early and i was concentrating on a job at the time so I may have misremembered the details but that was the gist. Keep meaning to go back and listen agajn but the way hes named the episodes its hard to find specific subjects.

Is this theory sound? It sounds like bobbins to me but it wouldnt be the last time i was mistaken about anything.

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2019, 08:49:11 AM »
All the shades of blue....



.....plain

thenoise

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2019, 09:58:49 AM »
Still don't know what colour 'mauve' is, but I have learnt how to spell it.

Chollis

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2019, 10:06:45 AM »
Still don't know what colour 'mauve' is, but I have learnt how to spell it.

How do you pronounce it though? It's like Smaug in The Hobbit isn't it SMaaoWwWWWG or Smorg

Johnny Yesno

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2019, 11:35:00 AM »
I heard that Blindboy chap talking about the colour blue on his podshart and he was explaining the theory that blue is a recent invention colourwise. Mainly based on an analysis of Homers Iliad and how it doesnt appear once despite all the sky and ocean in there.

It was late/early and i was concentrating on a job at the time so I may have misremembered the details but that was the gist. Keep meaning to go back and listen agajn but the way hes named the episodes its hard to find specific subjects.

Is this theory sound? It sounds like bobbins to me but it wouldnt be the last time i was mistaken about anything.

Yes, the idea is that there was no word for blue and that the nearest colour that expressed the luminosity of the sky was bronze. However, this person seems to think that's a load of bollocks, and I reckon their opinion is credible given their understanding of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis:

http://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2016/01/colours-in-homer-1-bronze-sky.html

Quote
And for reference, Homeric Greek did have two words that can mean 'blue': kyaneos and glaukos. Greek colour terms divided up the spectrum differently from how English and most modern western European languages do. Kyaneos covered the area of the spectrum ranging from black towards dark blue, and was also used for what in English would be called 'black' hair. Glaukos included light shades of green and blue with relatively low saturation.

Cuellar

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2019, 11:37:46 AM »
QI once claimed that there's no word for 'blue' in Welsh.

One of the 4 regional clubs in Welsh rugby is called Cardiff Blues, or, in Welsh, Gleision. Which you can see and hear all the time whenever they play.

Absolute fucking clowns. Haven't trusted a word they've said ever since.

Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2019, 11:46:58 AM »
There's no word for blue in ancient Greek, Homer used to say the water was wine-coloured instead.

gib

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2019, 11:47:57 AM »
Yes, the idea is that there was no word for blue and that the nearest colour that expressed the luminosity of the sky was bronze. However, this person seems to think that's a load of bollocks, and I reckon their opinion is credible given their understanding of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis:

http://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2016/01/colours-in-homer-1-bronze-sky.html

That's a lot more convincing than the QI take.

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2019, 11:55:57 AM »
Then what of Lapis lazuli?

For he was written about in the records of Puffed Siadin.


Cuellar

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2019, 12:05:12 PM »
Yes, the idea is that there was no word for blue and that the nearest colour that expressed the luminosity of the sky was bronze. However, this person seems to think that's a load of bollocks, and I reckon their opinion is credible given their understanding of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis:

http://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2016/01/colours-in-homer-1-bronze-sky.html

That's good and interesting.

Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2019, 12:11:52 PM »
Goose Turd - I'll say no more.

Buelligan

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2019, 12:52:59 PM »
Yes, the idea is that there was no word for blue and that the nearest colour that expressed the luminosity of the sky was bronze. However, this person seems to think that's a load of bollocks, and I reckon their opinion is credible given their understanding of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis:

http://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2016/01/colours-in-homer-1-bronze-sky.html

There's an interesting podcast about it, discussing the Homer stuff, the ideas of certain remote African tribes with regard to green especially and how very small children perceive the colour of the sky, not blue as we have be trained in the Northern hemisphere, but usually whitish.

Interestingly, probably only to me, I grow a plant, cerinthe major purpurascens.  It's said the ancient Greeks believed that honey emanated from this plant (rather than being manufactured by bees) and the reason for this belief was the colour (which ties in rather nicely with Homer's description of honey being "green".


cerinthe major purpurascens or Honeywort

seepage

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2019, 02:42:20 PM »
Cerulean's my favourite because it got me an A+ as my English teacher had never heard of it.
I thought all the words were because humans can distinguish one bit's worth more of green.

BlodwynPig

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2019, 02:44:55 PM »
What colour is CaB?

Beige-blue these days

Blue Jam

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2019, 02:46:19 PM »
I guess it's because a lot of things in nature are blue-green.

Shades of yellow also have some good nature-inspired names. Lemon, primrose, buttercup...


Johnny Yesno

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2019, 02:48:38 PM »
how very small children perceive describe the colour of the sky, not blue as we have be trained in the Northern hemisphere, but usually whitish.

My correction, there, really can't be overemphasised. Employing people's language use to make judgements about what they perceive is highly tenuous, hence my comment about Sapir-Worf.

It's said the ancient Greeks believed that honey emanated from this plant (rather than being manufactured by bees) and the reason for this belief was the colour (which ties in rather nicely with Homer's description of honey being "green".

Who says this? It sounds like they might be talking bollocks, to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Ancient_times

Quote
In ancient Greece, honey was produced from the Archaic to the Hellenistic periods. In 594 BC,[131] beekeeping around Athens was so widespread that Solon passed a law about it: "He who sets up hives of bees must put them 300 feet (91 metres) away from those already installed by another".[132][3] Greek archaeological excavations of pottery located ancient hives.[133] According to Columella, Greek beekeepers of the Hellenistic period did not hesitate to move their hives over rather long distances to maximize production, taking advantage of the different vegetative cycles in different regions.[133]

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2019, 03:13:50 PM »
You're cheating a bit with petrol-blue, seafoam green, robin/duck-egg blue etc, you could do that with any color 'bell-end purple', 'taint brown', 'Richard Madeley orange' etc etc.

The whole premise is a total sham.

Those are just the names of the colours, not nouns rebadged as adjectives.

Petroleum distillate has no colour, robin/duck-egg blue are two actual colours that I lumped together (the underside of spitfires were famously painted duck-egg blue in the first half of the Second World War), and seafoam isn’t a thing (unless it is - haven’t bothered to check obviously).

I think you are all dodging the question - what’s going on here? Unless it’s just a nature thing as previously pointed out?

Chollis

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2019, 03:23:59 PM »
and seafoam isn’t a thing (unless it is - haven’t bothered to check obviously).

Yes you have you love seafoam mate

Cuellar

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2019, 03:25:18 PM »

Buelligan

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2019, 03:29:17 PM »
My correction, there, really can't be overemphasised. Employing people's language use to make judgements about what they perceive is highly tenuous, hence my comment about Sapir-Worf.

Who says this? It sounds like they might be talking bollocks, to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Ancient_times

Sorry, I was rushing to post before rushing to work.  I'll have a look for that myth about honeywort if I can be arsed, I read it somewhere once, I'm pretty sure it was a credible source or I wouldn't have held on to it (hopefully).  One should remember, of course, that there were an awful lot of ideas about how things were, some of them quite local.  Aristotle believed and taught, I think, that flies caused meat to rot.

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2019, 03:37:24 PM »
Yes you have you love seafoam mate

fuk off no i dont

(First result on google - looks worth a watch! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a6pHSn8lLAQ)

Re: Blue-green conundrum
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2019, 04:21:41 PM »
QI once claimed that there's no word for 'blue' in Welsh.


Lots of languages have the same word for blue and green.
In Japanese they have separate words, but the word for green is relatively modern and they still call say some green plants and traffic lights are blue. How thick!