Star Wars ep IX: The Rise Of Skywalker

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

It's strange how much the internet loves Baby Yoda when the same Internet was so hostile to the very idea of Baby Groot.

Baby Groot was widely liked, I thought.

And it's definitely a baby Yoda, not the baby Yoda.

New page Watto.

[Thursday]

My controversial counterpoint is that Groot, Baby Groot, Baby Yoda and Babu Frik are all shit for cunts.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

What about a Baby Babu? (Not the Baby Babu)

[idunnosomename]

It's strange how much the internet loves Baby Yoda when the same Internet was so hostile to the very idea of Baby Groot.

what if baby internet was different internet to now?

[Kelvin]

My controversial counterpoint is that Groot, Baby Groot, Baby Yoda and Babu Frik are all shit for cunts.

Yeah, we're a long way from the "Ewoks ruined Star Wars" days.

[Jim Bob]

Its remarkable really that baby Han never showed up in the prequels. Remarkable restraint

Ahem...

Filming on Episode III was scheduled to begin in June 2003. In March that year, Lucas was still battling through the writing of the first draft. He had much to wrestle with: he originally envisioned an epic opening with battles taking place across seven planets. He had numerous plot strands from Attack Of The Clones that he wanted to slip in. And most of all, he had to decide, once and for all, just what it was that precipitated Anakin's turn to the Dark Side.

In those smaller plot strands, many of them thrown in to foreshadow events in the Original Trilogy, Lucas wanted to show how Boba Fett attempted to avenge the unceremonious death of his father in Attack Of The Clones. He wanted to show how Padme laid the foundations for the Rebel Alliance. Then there was the cameo from a young Han Solo: just 10 years old, wandering around on Chewbacca's home planet, Kashyyyk.

Solo's appearance in Revenge Of The Sith would have been fleeting - perhaps amounting to a few seconds. In an early draft of the script, Lucas gave him just one, rather pedestrian line: "I found part of a transmitter droid near the east bay. I think it's still sending and receiving signals."

Nevertheless, this brief appearance would have revealed something new about Solo's past: he was been raised from boyhood by his future co-pilot, Chewbacca.

"It's not in the script anymore," explained concept artist Iain McCaig in the Revenge Of The Sith art-of book, "but we were told that Han Solo was on Kashyyyk and that he was being raised by Chewbacca. He's such a persnickety guy later on – he always has to have the best of everything – so I thought it'd be great if when he was a kid, he was an absolute slob."

The scene would also have been significant for another reason: it would have marked the first and only time Solo met Yoda. In fact, that line Solo was to utter about finding a scrap bit of droid would have been directed at the pointy-eared Jedi master, who was to have been hunting around on Kashyyyk for clues as to General Grievous' whereabouts.

"Good, good," Yoda would have replied. "Track this we can back to the source. Find General Grievous, we might..."

The scene got as far as the concept art stage before it was scrapped as Lucas raced to get his story into shape; casting for the young Han hadn't even begun, so we'll never know who Lucas might have picked to play him. Certainly, McCaig's painting of a scruffy lad with long hair looks right for the Star Wars universe - there are even echoes of Rey's Jakku outfit in those pieces of cloth bound around his legs. But Star Wars fans might have collectively sighed with relief that the scene was ultimately dropped as Lucas refocused his script on Anakin's fall, and the various sub-plots he'd originally wanted to put in gradually fell away.

[Jim Bob]

what if baby internet was different internet to now?

You forgot to stroke your beard.

[madhair60]

I think Rise of Skywalker has made me not like Star Wars anymore. Just slid all my Clone Wars Blu-Rays down a grid.

[gatchamandave]

My controversial counterpoint is that Groot, Baby Groot, Baby Yoda and Babu Frik are all shit for cunts.

Anyone else initially read that last one as Baby Giancarlo Esposito ?

[idunnosomename]

oh fuck thats awfully naff. but i do kinda like han meeting yoda. ARGH no it sucks.

You forgot to stroke your beard.

superfluous

[Replies From View]

What if there was a baby horse of some kind just poking into frame

[Replies From View]

Anyone else initially read that last one as Baby Giancarlo Esposito ?

Never did but that's because I haven't learned all the coffee names.

[idunnosomename]

baby horse wars

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

That's foalish.

[momatt]

Yoda as a babba? If absolutely nothing else, learning about that has convinced me to never go anywhere near the Mandalorian.

The Mandalorian is the best new Star Wars thing to have happened for a very long time.  It's really well done.  With a good balance of 'member-berries and some originality.
It's set after Return of the Jedi, so it's not actually Yoda as a baby, just the same species.  But as they don't have a name, everyone just call him/it Baby Yoda.

[evilcommiedictator]

Give me my Nara Jade movie, or even worse, make Shadows of the Empire into a mivie. Check out the CGI sewer level babey

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

This movie frustrates me because there are elements in it that would have been so much better if anybody had bothered to actually go with them. That company of Stormtroopers who all defected en masse because of "a feeling" (strongly implied to be the Force)? That should've been a jumping-off point for Finn or Rey to try and reach the rank-and-file troops of the First Order using the Force. Wouldn't that have been something? The fleet is all assembled and Finn and his former Stormtroopers are there desperately trying to use the Force, not sure if it's working, not sure if this is how it's supposed to feel, and then one by one all those ships stand down as the ordinary soldiers and even some of the officers decide "fuck this, let's all go home"? It would've tied in with one of the themes of The Last Jedi, creating continuity within the trilogy. NAH NAH LET'S JUST BLOW THEM ALL UP COS BOOM AND WHIZZ AND LENS FLARE AND BUY MORE SHIT, STUPID KIDS, CONVINCE YOUR PARENTS TO BUY YOU MORE SHIT.

I'm not someone who demands that everything I loved when I was a kid be hermetically sealed and never revisited or re-imagined, I'm really not. I think Rey Palpatine was a bad choice but I'm not necessarily opposed to it. But I can't even get into that because the film itself is such a bloated nonsense-mess of plot-holes, cheap fake-outs, and pointless fan-pandering. Rey feels upset about Chewie apparently dying but then Dark Sides all over the place by killing Kylo oops no she didn't because she heals him. Kylo decides he loooooves her and has to rescue her because mother-death and dad-vision, even though he only ever saw Rey as a means to an end. And that's great isn't it, our heroine needs A Man to Save Her, that'll prove she's not a Mary-Sue, right fanboys? Right? RIGHT??? buy sixty million tickets to this shambling abortion it somehow took four people to write and nobody to edit, we even got rid of the Chinese that you hated so much you chased off social media, BUY MERCH BUY ALL THE MERCH THE MOUSE REQUIRES MONEY

The last thing that bothers me about this movie is that it reminds me I've grown old, and it reminds me of that in this sense: Reylo is a young woman's fantasy. He's brooding, and troubled, and he lashes out violently when things don't go his way. But you - you can change him. You and your pure heart. He says that you're like him, and if that's true then you can make him good, like you. You can change him if you just believe in him.

And there's something incredibly alluring about that story, about the idea that you're that special, especially when he's Ben Solo and incredibly special and powerful and talented, and you're just Rey from nowhere. Then he rides to your rescue, almost too late, and gives his life for you after one tender kiss.

But in real life Kylo Ren either grows out of being a brooding, tantruming asshole by age 25, or he stays that way and gradually gets worse as he gets older. Rey either outgrows him or sticks around, taking his abuse, making herself smaller and smaller in the hopes that if she's just better in some way eventually he'll change and become Ben Solo again. And I know this because I am old, and I've seen it all before, and so Reylo would probably never ring true to me no matter how well it's written. So thank you, JJ and Rise of Skywalker, for reminding me that I am old and we are living in late stage capitalism and the end of days.

[Jim Bob]

I liked the part where Kylo tells Rey that he never lied to her in regards to her parentage, because yeah, Rey's parents were totally filthy junkers who sold her for drinking money.  "From a certain point of view", innit?

This movie frustrates me because there are elements in it that would have been so much better if anybody had bothered to actually go with them. That company of Stormtroopers who all defected en masse because of "a feeling" (strongly implied to be the Force)? That should've been a jumping-off point for Finn or Rey to try and reach the rank-and-file troops of the First Order using the Force. Wouldn't that have been something? The fleet is all assembled and Finn and his former Stormtroopers are there desperately trying to use the Force, not sure if it's working, not sure if this is how it's supposed to feel, and then one by one all those ships stand down as the ordinary soldiers and even some of the officers decide "fuck this, let's all go home"? It would've tied in with one of the themes of The Last Jedi, creating continuity within the trilogy. NAH NAH LET'S JUST BLOW THEM ALL UP COS BOOM AND WHIZZ AND LENS FLARE AND BUY MORE SHIT, STUPID KIDS, CONVINCE YOUR PARENTS TO BUY YOU MORE SHIT.

"They fly now!"
"They fly now?"
"They fly now."

The last thing that bothers me about this movie is that it reminds me I've grown old, and it reminds me of that in this sense: Reylo is a young woman's fantasy. He's brooding, and troubled, and he lashes out violently when things don't go his way. But you - you can change him. You and your pure heart. He says that you're like him, and if that's true then you can make him good, like you. You can change him if you just believe in him.

I'm rather suspicious that there's a crossover between Reylos and women who write love letters to serial killers, courtesy of the governor.

BUY MERCH BUY ALL THE MERCH THE MOUSE REQUIRES MONEY

Don't question, just OBEY, CONSUME.  OBEY.  CONSUME.

But in real life Kylo Ren either grows out of being a brooding, tantruming asshole by age 25...

It should be noted that Adam Driver is 36 years of age, which only serves to make the whole 'brooding teenager' act all the more awkward.

The romance between Rey and Kylo is patently shoehorned in, but of course Kylo loves Rey because one of the key traits of a Mary Sue is that all the other characters worship them.  Hence why Han offers Rey a job, after Rey demonstrates that she knows the Millennium Falcon better than he does, despite having never left her home of Reboot Sand Planet and therefore, presumably, having never piloted a ship before, much less a Corellian freighter (as co-piloted by Chewie).

Hence why she inherits the Millennium Falcon (and Chewie).  Hence why Leia hugs her (whilst shunning Chewie), despite having no idea who she is (and having a long standing friendship with Chewie).  Hence why Jedi Master Luke is schooled by her and shown the errors of his ways and how to be a Jedi (and why Rey translates what Chewie is saying to Luke).  Hence why Zorri Bliss immediately decides to drop her well founded grudge against Poe, because she's automatically in awe of Rey (and irritatingly, it should be noted, not the put upon Chewie).  Hence why Kylo is in love with her, despite there being so little interaction between the two and what little interaction there is, being toxically negative (obligatory Chewie mention in parenthesis).

Mary Sue?  Muh-Rey-Sue (I'd say that Chewie died for our sins but alas, he was conveniently on the other transport.  The one that didn't get exploded).

Having said that, I must confess that I find no small amount of schadenfreude in the fact that Disney deemed it necessary to pander to the creepy Reylos by way of having Rey and Kylo kiss, only to have it blow up in their stupid Mus musculus face, because the Reylos sent death threats to the actors and director en masse, as a result of them being in tears over their precious little serial killer being killed off.  Reylos are unhinged, I guess.  Who knew?  Everyone but Disney, evidentially and that, my friends, is what we call hubris.

So thank you, JJ and Rise of Skywalker, for reminding me that I am old and we are living in late stage capitalism and the end of days.

I'll drink (myself to death) to that.

*clink*

[Jim Bob]

I suppose that I should actually say something in this edit glitch removal post, so, um...

You know you gone done fucked up when Cinema Sins won't have to nitpick for their dings.

...yep, job's a good un.

[Default to the negative]

Have you heard about Shoe?

Shoes were a type of footwear. The alien gambler Dobbu Scay wore black shoes while in Canto Bight on the planet Cantonica in around 34 ABY.

Mary Sue? More like Mary Shoe, haha

[idunnosomename]

it makes me laugh every time

Since shoes appear in most Star Wars works, this list only includes mentions of shoes in text or dialogue.

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

Mary Sue?  Muh-Rey-Sue

I have zero time for the "Rey is a Mary Sue" argument when Luke could fly a ship perfectly out of nowhere and Anakin is Force Jesus. I have even less time for the contortions the Mary Sue brigade put themselves through proving that Luke has flaws while Rey is perfect he DOES and she IS. I've been in fandom long enough to know that if Rey was Ray there'd be no such talk.

the Reylos sent death threats to the actors and director en masse

Fuuuuck. Do you have a source on this? Preferably a statement from Disney or JJ or one of the actors, because I can't find anything other than random blogs citing one Twitter account posting screenshots of other Twitter accounts which mean nothing. It's not that I don't believe you, I would just really like to see a primary source.

The romance between Rey and Kylo is patently shoehorned in

Yeah but not because Rey's a Mary Sue. The brooding troubled soul with a Heart of Gold That Shines Only For You is a very very old trope. Let's face it here, Kylo Ren is Ben Solo and this is being made by Disney. He was always going to be redeemed, patricide or not, because Rey Believed In Him. The reason I didn't believe his heel face turn is because Abrams and his fellow hacks ignored Episode VIII and wrote him as though he'd always seen Rey as a potential love interest instead of just a means to an end. Rey's drawn to him and thinks he can be saved, that's consistent across all three movies. And it's consistent with her being a young woman and being in awe of both his parents and his uncle. I would've loved to see a more grown-up story where... god this movie is such a clusterfuck it's hard to think of improvements... both of them make it to Exegol to confront Palpatine, Rey because good versus evil but Ren because he wants Palpatine's power for himself. Then above them Finn and the other former Stormtroopers manage to reach the rest of the First Order soldiers using the Force, and Rose comes through with allies from the rest of the galaxy, and it's over - everyone's going home to farm moisture and drink firewhiskey. But Kylo still wants Ultimate Powah and to rule the galaxy with the Force, even though his troops have all defected. And Rey realises she can't Believe him into being a better person, he has to do that for himself, and she leaves him there. You could do that and still have Kylo be a sympathetic character - if he gains Ultimate Powah over the Force and rules the galaxy, then killing his father meant something. Instead he's left with power that's useless without any followers, and no family left.

But this franchise is for stupid children and adults who don't care about coherent storytelling or well-drawn characters or anything that takes an existing IP and tries to do something different with it, so.

[Blumf]

I have zero time for the "Rey is a Mary Sue" argument when Luke could fly a ship perfectly out of nowhere

"I used to shoot womprats with my T-16 back home"

[idunnosomename]

Luke was a proper pilot in the script. you can see the Skyhopper as a Matte painting behind him.



The model he's playing with was from an abandoned effects sequence featuring it, I believe


edit i mean just in case omg THATS JUST A TOY

[Jim Bob]

I have zero time for the "Rey is a Mary Sue" argument when Luke could fly a ship perfectly out of nowhere and Anakin is Force Jesus. I have even less time for the contortions the Mary Sue brigade put themselves through proving that Luke has flaws while Rey is perfect he DOES and she IS. I've been in fandom long enough to know that if Rey was Ray there'd be no such talk.

Uh, sure, because it's not like there could possibly be any other explanation for taking umbrage with a poorly written character who just happens to be a woman.  No siree.  Character writing for women is automatically above criticism, I guess.  I say, Mr. Screenwriter, your badly written and uninteresting character is a woman?  Instant free pass!  What's that?  There's plenty of actual women who hate the way in which Rey is written and consider her to be a Mary Sue?  Oh no!  I guess they're just self-hating.

I'd have EXACTLY the same issues with a male character who was written just as badly as Rey (Mary Sue tropes are not gender exclusive - the trope is named after a woman because that's the very specific origin of the trope) and no, Luke is not written in the same manner in which Rey is (as others have pointed out with your poorly chosen example).  Luke fails in his first fight against Darth Vader, as well he should.  Rey kicked Kylo Ren's arse EVERY single time that she confronted him, with zero training no less.  Fascinating conflict, there.  What are the stakes if the protagonist defeats the main antagonist on the first attempt, in the first movie of a trilogy?

To say that criticism of bad character writing is misogynistic, just because the character happens to be a woman is ignorant and dismissive.  You can only accuse people of such things, providing that their argument is criticising the very fact that a character is female.  Mine and countless others' arguments have never had one iota to do with the gender of the character.  Your dismissal is a disingenuous argument at best.  It's also extremely insulting.

It's fine that you enjoy badly written movies and badly written characters, I have my share of such movies, but don't EVER accuse critics of being hateful bigots, merely for not sharing your like for badly written shite.  Quite frankly, how dare you.  You don't know me or 99.999999% of other critics.  To tar them all with the same brush is just as hateful and judgmental as the people you propose to dislike.

[popcorn]

There's no need to formulate arguments along the lines of Rey being a Mary Sue or whatever when, however you spin it, she's just so fucking boring.

[Jim Bob]

There's no need to formulate arguments along the lines of Rey being a Mary Sue or whatever when, however you spin it, she's just so fucking boring.

Yes, she's boring BECAUSE she's a Mary Sue.  There's fuck all interesting about a character who starts off perfect and doesn't have to learn along the way via trial by fire.  That's the point.

[popcorn]

But I don't think the problem is that she "starts off perfect", exactly. It's not like "oh, if only she fucked up a bit more" she'd be great. She suffers from a lack of conflict or complexity generally. There's never any danger of her turning to the dark side, ever.

tbh, everything I've just said there might also apply to Luke, I'd have to watch the old movies again - but Luke isn't exactly my favourite protag either.

[popcorn]

The criticisms of her being naturally good at the force and it being all too easy - like when she mind-tricks the guard in TFA - I think attack the symptom and not the cause. It's not that it was too easy for her, it's that it isn't foreshadowed. If she'd used a mind-trick to get more rations from Alien Simon Pegg earlier in the film - without knowing she was doing it, exactly, only that she was pissed off and sometimes weirdly persuasive - we'd have bought her escape completely. It's just about setup and payoff.

[Jim Bob]

But I don't think the problem is that she "starts off perfect", exactly. It's not like "oh, if only she fucked up a bit more" she'd be great. She suffers from a lack of conflict or complexity generally. There's never any danger of her turning to the dark side, ever.

tbh, everything I've just said there might also apply to Luke, I'd have to watch the old movies again - but Luke isn't exactly my favourite protag either.

I agree with the former, but no, it does not apply to Luke.  Luke requires the support and help of his friends.  Luke starts off as a whiny little bitch, quite frankly ("but I've got to go to Toshi Station to pick up some power converters").  He learns, he fails, he learns again.  That is his arc.  That is the hero's journey.  That is why he is a compelling protagonist.  That is why Rey is not.

It's just about setup and payoff.

Yeah, which is preciously what the sequel trilogy fails so miserably at.  It's all setup and subversion.  There is no payoff.