Star Wars ep IX: The Rise Of Skywalker

[Custard]

I still think their biggest mistake with Solo was not just having Harrison Ford do it, using that de-aging thing*. Or, you know, hired someone who looked and acted like him. Or made it animated and used Ford's voice

*It'd cost a fortune, I know, but least you'd think it's the same bloke. And I'd imagine it'd have put a lot more bums in seats

[Thomas]

I've been catching up with all the Star Warses. I watched Solo yesterday, and the actor actually does look remarkably like Harrison Ford (in one shot).

[Custard]

Under a dark light, at a certain angle!

[Thomas]

It's when his face is partially obscured by mud during the Chewbacca wrestle. He frowns in a certain way for half-a-frame, and I thought: ah! he does look like him.

[Huxleys Babkins]

They were probably too terrified to de-age him after the backlash they got for the Carrie Fisher CG in Rogue One.

Christ, that reminds me of another thing wrong with IX. They were so determined not to upset people by using a CG Leia that we ended up with her acting all weird as they scraped anything they had off the cutting room floor.

But they still used a CG Leia for the Jedi training flashback anyway.

[Thomas]

As somebody without attachment or a childhood nostalgia, on my recent viewing I found the original three films to be essentially consistent in quality. Fun space romps. I expected big, complex mythology, but it's a simple story. Goodies and baddies. They're even colour-coded. Very videogamey. The goodies have to go to a certain planet to speak to an NPC. He sends them to the next level planet to collect a gem. And on and on until the boss level. Enjoyable stuff. Looks great.

I skipped the preeqs and moved onto the sequel trilogy. Enjoyed The Force Awakens. Really liked Rogue One, I thought that was a clever little addition.

As a non-fan, when I came to The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker, I didn't expect to really notice the supposedly controversial elements. I just thought it'd be more nonsense space fun. But I noticed them.

I liked some elements - Mark Hamill can mope, but I actually quite enjoyed a few things they did with Luke. Tossing the lightsaber over his shoulder was a funny pricking of the grand cliffhanger setup, and I got a hard-on when that green cow gave him a facial. I also liked the reveal that his final battle was all a force projection. And I liked that Rey's parents turned out to be no one special (until Grandpa Palpatine came back for two hours).

But more of those last two films was off the rails than on, and not in a good or subversive way. The sequel trilogy was weird and meandering, obviously unplanned and jagged with contradictory visions. Each installment was reflexive, reacting to criticism and fandom in a very 21st century way. It was a ship of several competing crews sailing awkwardly to an unplanned destination, each crew member desperately patching up holes in the hull, and in doing creating new holes somewhere else. Finally, it reaches some shoreline somewhere and... it's a pretty boring place. They needn't have bothered setting sail.

Thus concludes my venture. I can now unsubscribe from Disney+.

[QDRPHNC]

As somebody without attachment or a childhood nostalgia, on my recent viewing I found the original three films to be essentially consistent in quality. Fun space romps. I expected big, complex mythology, but it's a simple story.

Yeah, you've hit on something here I think, that "fun space romp" was all the original trilogy was ever supposed to be, and it's all the better for it.

In the intervening 40 years, Star Wars became something obsessed about by 40 year old men. The mythology was created by the audience, not George Lucas. The new trilogy had to appeal to a type of highly-attuned, highly-critical audience that didn't exist for the first one, and a general audience. No wonder the new trilogy is a car wreck.

I liked some elements - Mark Hamill can mope, but I actually quite enjoyed a few things they did with Luke. Tossing the lightsaber over his shoulder was a funny pricking of the grand cliffhanger setup, and I got a hard-on when that green cow gave him a facial. I also liked the reveal that his final battle was all a force projection. And I liked that Rey's parents turned out to be no one special (until Grandpa Palpatine came back for two hours).

I'm not a Star Wars nerd in the slightest. But speaking as someone born in 1977, for whom the OT was the background noise of my entire childhood, I hated the moment when Luke tossed the lightsaber, because it was a direct acknowledgement of the director and the audience and the criticism of The Force Awakens for being to slavish to the OT. It was out of character for Luke and tonally off with Star Wars as a whole.

I'm glad to see you liked Rogue One. I liked it a lot too, don't know why it gets so much stick. After the OT, it's the next best Star Wars movie by a margin.

Would love to hear your thoughts on the prequel trilogy, but I can't ask you to put yourself through that.

But more of those last two films was off the rails than on, and not in a good or subversive way. The sequel trilogy was weird and meandering, obviously unplanned and jagged with contradictory visions. Each installment was reflexive, reacting to criticism and fandom in a very 21st century way. It was a ship of several competing crews sailing awkwardly to an unplanned destination, each crew member desperately patching up holes in the hull, and in doing creating new holes somewhere else. Finally, it reaches some shoreline somewhere and... it's a pretty boring place. They needn't have bothered setting sail.

Good analogy. It's stunning how little planning clearly went into such a high-profile, incredibly expensive undertaking. But I wonder if it was sold as a feature rather than a bug - that the new trilogy could respond to criticism essentially in realtime, thus making everyone happy and lots of money.

[Custard]

Rogue One gets stick? On here I think it's generally liked, with a fair few people saying it's the best of the Disney films

AND CAB IS THE WORRRRLD

[QDRPHNC]

Rogue One gets stick? On here I think it's generally liked, with a fair few people saying it's the best of the Disney films

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd say the consensus on both CaB and everywhere else tends to be on the negative side. Although that could be changing given the context of the very poor new trilogy.

[popcorn]

Fucken hated Rogue One. Just so spectacularly fucking unambitious and dull. At least Rise of Skywalker is utterly mental.

[dr beat]

Would anyone want to watch that though?

They struggled to sell Solo, the origin of probably the most beloved character in the franchise, so I'm not sure how much audience there is for the origins of inconsequential shit nobody cares about.

I agree, was just wondering how Disney might try and spin their way out of the mess they've made.

They were probably too terrified to de-age him after the backlash they got for the Carrie Fisher CG in Rogue One.

I enjoyed Rogue One but hated that final reveal of Leia, the poor CGI really took me out of the moment, and I felt it insulted the intelligence of the audience.  Would have been much better to end the film at the moment we see the hooded figure of Leia with her back to the audience.

[greenman]

Yeah, you've hit on something here I think, that "fun space romp" was all the original trilogy was ever supposed to be, and it's all the better for it.

In the intervening 40 years, Star Wars became something obsessed about by 40 year old men. The mythology was created by the audience, not George Lucas. The new trilogy had to appeal to a type of highly-attuned, highly-critical audience that didn't exist for the first one, and a general audience. No wonder the new trilogy is a car wreck.

I would say the originals are good at creating the sense of a wider mythology without having it have all that much direct impact on the story which is ultimately about a handful of characters.

Rogue One negative reaction seems mostly...



Really though again I think it manages to keep to a fairly small story rather than the over plotting of the sequels and prequels. The sequels might not treat the mythology that seriously but they still depend a hell of a lot on it rather than actually having characters we might care about.

[mjwilson]

They were probably too terrified to de-age him after the backlash they got for the Carrie Fisher CG in Rogue One.

Christ, that reminds me of another thing wrong with IX. They were so determined not to upset people by using a CG Leia that we ended up with her acting all weird as they scraped anything they had off the cutting room floor.

But they still used a CG Leia for the Jedi training flashback anyway.

Was it purely CG or was it Fisher composited in from some other sequence?

[greenman]

Fairly sure it was pure CGI and I'd agree they'd have been better off sticking to the shot behind, the CGI Tarkin was a lot more effective for me if I spose more questionable morally. Generally I'd say your better off sticking to villians for that kind of work as looking a bit uncanny doesn't matter as much, Clu in Tron Legacy for example.

[Custard]

Thing is, Tarkin had to be in Rogue One as he was all over the Death Star and trying to take credit for it. That character would have been there. They could have cast a younger actor, but like Ford he's so unique looking and acting it'd just be jarring

I actually thought the Tarkin in Rogue One looked really good, and I had no idea that Tarkin was in it beforehand. Like a dolt I was sat in the cinema thinking "Surely Peter Cushing isn't still alive?". It was only in his second or third scene that I worked out what they'd done!

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

UGGGHHHHH I'm starting to remember more and more ways this film annoyed me

If they come out and say "oh no lol that sequel trilogy was just an alternate timeline, here's the real one" I won't watch it. Fuck off with that garbage Disney. You were the ones who decided not to form a team to handle all three movies so that there'd be some sort of cohesion. You sat there and watched the dailies. You greenlit the tie-in with fucking Fortnite. You saw the movie before and after it was edited and you sent it out because you decided that Star Wars is shit for kids now. Own the pile of shit you crapped out.

[greenman]

Thing is, Tarkin had to be in Rogue One as he was all over the Death Star and trying to take credit for it. That character would have been there. They could have cast a younger actor, but like Ford he's so unique looking and acting it'd just be jarring

I actually thought the Tarkin in Rogue One looked really good, and I had no idea that Tarkin was in it beforehand. Like a dolt I was sat in the cinema thinking "Surely Peter Cushing isn't still alive?". It was only in his second or third scene that I worked out what they'd done!

Yeah I'd agree its probably the best done full CGI character I';v seen, not 100% perfect but you really have to be looking for it.

Besides fatigue/blacklash from Last Jedi I think SOlo really failed to sell itself, audiences might have accepted the character played by someone other than Ford but that ment the character himself wasn't going to draw in audiences and it wasn't very clear(still wasn't after watching it) exactly what the film was about. I still find it to be the only "okish" Starwars personally, besides that its all been either good(originals and Rogue One) or awful(prequels and sequels).

[QDRPHNC]

Star Wars is shit for manchildren kids now

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

Besides fatigue/blacklash from Last Jedi I think SOlo really failed to sell itself, audiences might have accepted the character played by someone other than Ford but that ment the character himself wasn't going to draw in audiences and it wasn't very clear(still wasn't after watching it) exactly what the film was about. I still find it to be the only "okish" Starwars personally, besides that its all been either good(originals and Rogue One) or awful(prequels and sequels).

The problem with Solo is that there's no way to maintain tension when you know that the three main characters are going to live for another forty years. That sequence near the end where they're flying through turbulent space or whatever? I wished I could just fast-forward through it. OBVIOUSLY they're all gonna make it, stop BORING ME.

[Ant Farm Keyboard]

For the flashback in The Rise of Skywalker, they used a de-aged Mark Hamill and they CGIed Carrie Fisher's face over Billie Lourd, who acted as her body double in the scene.

[SteveDave]

I still think their biggest mistake with Solo was not just having Harrison Ford do it, using that de-aging thing*. Or, you know, hired someone who looked and acted like him. Or made it animated and used Ford's voice

Like this motherfucker!

[SteveDave]

The problem with Solo is that there's no way to maintain tension when you know that the three main characters are going to live for another forty years. That sequence near the end where they're flying through turbulent space or whatever? I wished I could just fast-forward through it. OBVIOUSLY they're all gonna make it, stop BORING ME.

They've could killed the wookiee though. When Han meets him and he asks "What's your name?" the wookiee growls and he says "I can't call you that! I'll call you Chewie" Then what we think is Chewie gets killed saving Han, after the battle Han takes the body back to Kashykk and then meets Chewbacca who's Chew(WHATEVER)'s son.

Dear Hollywood Movie Moguls...

[idunnosomename]

Yeah I'd agree its probably the best done full CGI character I';v seen, not 100% perfect but you really have to be looking for it.

Check out Rachael in the Blade Runner sequel

[Sin Agog]

Check out Rachael in the Blade Runner sequel

Her eyes were the wrong colour.  They even had the temerity to point it out in the movie.  Total botchjob.

[buzby]

Check out Rachael in the Blade Runner sequel

See MPC's breakdown of the process they developed. The demo reel they did replacing Young with the digital double in shots from the first film are even more startling than the finished shots from the sequel.

[greenman]

Check out Rachael in the Blade Runner sequel

I felt that looked more obviously CGI personally(younger blemish free skin seems harder to recreate?) but it didn't really matter because the character was sposed to be a somewhat spooky recreation.

[buzby]

I felt that looked more obviously CGI personally(younger blemish free skin seems harder to recreate?) but it didn't really matter because the character was sposed to be a somewhat spooky recreation.

They modelled the skin blemishes Young had in 1982 (click to enbiggen):

[Ant Farm Keyboard]

They actually spent a few more months working on Rachael because of the noticeable poor job with Leia at the end of Rogue One.

[Replies From View]

They've could killed the wookiee though. When Han meets him and he asks "What's your name?" the wookiee growls and he says "I can't call you that! I'll call you Chewie" Then what we think is Chewie gets killed saving Han, after the battle Han takes the body back to Kashykk and then meets Chewbacca who's Chew(WHATEVER)'s son.

I believe the Holiday Special already did this.

[Gulftastic]

Luke and Leia : Hoth Nights.