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More climate change protests in Central London

Started by Fambo Number Mive, April 15, 2019, 11:47:01 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Buelligan

Quote from: biggytitbo on April 18, 2019, 07:51:25 AM

AKA we need drastic measures but none of them include taking my goodies away from me.


I mean this is the same argument as, why do we bother doing anything when China and India combined are so much worse?

I don't think it is.  It's just a simple observation that use of air transport by either Britain or the EU is not dependent on whether those two entities remain in a union or not.

As I said, if you're worried about it, check Farage's policies and ideas on climate change and campaign against him.

dr beat

Edit: Having read previous page, I'm not adding much - deleted.


hummingofevil

Quote from: metaltax on April 18, 2019, 07:57:11 AM
I never said I was unhappy. I live 200 miles away from it.

The really hilarious thing is that the disruption really is quite minimal but all the dickheads having a go at them are magnifying it's impact.

I walked 14 miles across London yesterday and there were people out and about everywhere enjoying the warm evening. You move 50 yards away from a protest and everything functioning as normal. Buses running, shops open. There were definitely more people out having drinks along South Bank than were on the bridge as part of protest. No mad panic, no rush.

Now if you shut down the Tyne Bridge for three days... fucked.

metaltax

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 18, 2019, 07:58:33 AM
You are moaning and come across that way. All the same I hope tomorrow you live 0.1 miles from it.

I'm cynical, baffled at the naivety of people who think they're going to change anything to any significant degree, and sympathetic to the daily lives of people who have chosen not to get involved and yet somehow find themselves caught up in it.

Buelligan

Out of interest, how would you instigate initiatives to ameliorate climate change if you wanted to do that, metaltax?

hummingofevil

Quote from: biggytitbo on April 18, 2019, 07:58:56 AM
Isn't the best thing the UK can do in a global sense - work locally, get our food locally and stop flying food in from abroad, take our holidays locally?

Agree with you on this yes. But given that not everyone in UK has walking holidays in Wales or can jump on Eurostar to France in a couple of hours I can see where the problem lies. XR's idea of taxing air travel almost out of existence will have a hugely disproportionate effect on lower income holiday makers whilst the rich business travellers will continue to use their private planes and first class expenses funded lifestyles. It's a conundrum.

Maybe as global warming hits we will the likes of Scarborough rise again as summer sun destinations but by the time we get to that point it's almost certainly likely that 300 million Bangladeshis will find their homeland uninhabitable so you know... swings and roundabouts.

hummingofevil

Quote from: metaltax on April 18, 2019, 08:11:05 AM
I'm cynical, baffled at the naivety of people who think they're going to change anything to any significant degree, and sympathetic to the daily lives of people who have chosen not to get involved and yet somehow find themselves caught up in it.

It's a fairly basic retort to suggest that the hundreds of millions of the world's poorest people who have seen none of the benefits of mass industrialisation yet are doomed to experience the worst of its climate change side effects didn't choose to get involved with it yet somehow find themselves caught up in it. That's kinda the point if the whole XR thing.

metaltax

Quote from: Buelligan on April 18, 2019, 08:13:12 AM
Out of interest, how would you instigate initiatives to ameliorate climate change if you wanted to do that, metaltax?

I wouldn't. I don't think anything can be done to affect any sort of meaningful change without changing the mechanics of society and the economy so drastically that it'll never happen. I'm not saying it isn't a shit situation, but that's what's been done to the planet by successive generations of industry. Unless someone can come up with a way to mobilise vast swathes of indifferent people across the planet into a drastic and simultaneous lifestyle change (and good luck with that), you might as well just have a Cornetto and enjoy what little time we have left. I certainly won't be spending it with my hand glued to the front door of Shell.

greenman

Quote from: biggytitbo on April 18, 2019, 07:51:25 AM

AKA we need drastic measures but none of them include taking my goodies away from me.

I mean this is the same argument as, why do we bother doing anything when China and India combined are so much worse?

Of course a lot of the reason China and India are so much worse is because we've been deliberately exporting our pollution to them to fake progress.

I'd say some kind of tax on flights beyond a "once a year holiday" could be one way to go but generally I think its more a lack of investment is really large scale alternative energy. Thus far things have tended to be limited to smaller scale private enterprise that's often of very questionable efficiently, lots of public funding that ends up in millionaire tech bro's pockets.

I do think Corbyn should look towards pushing very large scale alternative energy infrastructure projects here before an election, has the potential to win environmental votes and create a lot of good quality jobs. Maybe that could be an example that helps with a shift to the left generally breaking though the middle class inertia.

Buelligan

Quote from: metaltax on April 18, 2019, 08:30:13 AM
I wouldn't. I don't think anything can be done to affect any sort of meaningful change without changing the mechanics of society and the economy so drastically that it'll never happen. I'm not saying it isn't a shit situation, but that's what's been done to the planet by successive generations of industry. Unless someone can come up with a way to mobilise vast swathes of indifferent people across the planet into a drastic and simultaneous lifestyle change (and good luck with that), you might as well just have a Cornetto and enjoy what little time we have left. I certainly won't be spending it with my hand glued to the front door of Shell.

Ah, but you'll be talking about it publicly, agreeing that there's an existential (I think I can use that word here reasonably) problem that needs fixing and that's a small start isn't it?  That's something that these hippies have initiated.

Paul Calf

Nah, just have a Cornetto and casually condemn the next generation to short miserable lives followed by early, painful deaths.

Noonling

Quote from: hummingofevil on April 18, 2019, 08:13:54 AM
Agree with you on this yes. But given that not everyone in UK has walking holidays in Wales or can jump on Eurostar to France in a couple of hours I can see where the problem lies. XR's idea of taxing air travel almost out of existence will have a hugely disproportionate effect on lower income holiday makers whilst the rich business travellers will continue to use their private planes and first class expenses funded lifestyles. It's a conundrum.
People should be taking holidays in Wales though, and if it becomes cheaper than a flight to Spain (which I'm not sure it is right now, depending on where you live) it will become a viable option. Frankly there needs to be a societal change so that people feel embarassed at the idea of flying abroad and people judge it much like they might judge people eating veal or not vaccinating their children. Even the rich (people or organisations) can feel the pressure, though sure they may be affected less.


Buelligan

Quote from: Noonling on April 18, 2019, 08:59:39 AM
People should be taking holidays in Wales though, and if it becomes cheaper than a flight to Spain (which I'm not sure it is right now, depending on where you live) it will become a viable option. Frankly there needs to be a societal change so that people feel embarassed at the idea of flying abroad and people judge it much like they might judge people eating veal or not vaccinating their children. Even the rich (people or organisations) can feel the pressure, though sure they may be affected less.

Not too many mind.  I think it would be better all round if the English stayed at home.

Fambo Number Mive

Quote from: Noonling on April 18, 2019, 08:59:39 AM
People should be taking holidays in Wales though, and if it becomes cheaper than a flight to Spain (which I'm not sure it is right now, depending on where you live) it will become a viable option. Frankly there needs to be a societal change so that people feel embarassed at the idea of flying abroad and people judge it much like they might judge people eating veal or not vaccinating their children. Even the rich (people or organisations) can feel the pressure, though sure they may be affected less.

I think taking flying abroad for holidays needs to be phased out but people do need to see friends/family who are in other countries. Perhaps we need to build more Eurostars across the world so people can get trains from continent to continent.


Extinction Rebellion have blocked Vauxhall Bridge.

Replies From View


mr. logic

Quote from: Buelligan on April 18, 2019, 09:02:39 AM
Not too many mind.  I think it would be better all round if the English stayed at home.

Aren't you an English person that moved abroad?

 

lipsink

Quote from: hummingofevil on April 18, 2019, 07:02:23 AM

It will take for people to literally start boiling to death for them to accept they are wrong and I keep coming back to vision that if humanity is wiped out tomorrow then there is a very real possibility that ironically enough, Donald Trump would be the last living person ever. Humanity's epitaph.

Never underestimate people's ability to deny they are wrong. Even at the point of boiling to death. More likely they'll just say: "Yes, but no-one could've predicted it would be THIS hot!"

Replies From View

Quote from: lipsink on April 18, 2019, 09:54:41 AM
Never underestimate people's ability to deny they are wrong. Even at the point of boiling to death. More likely they'll just say: "Yes, but no-one could've predicted it would be THIS hot!"

In fact a world with just Donald Trump standing in it would still be arguing away to itself.  Him and his wig quarrelling like they think they're being filmed for something.

Fambo Number Mive

The Independent has a story headlined "Here are the Tube lines affected by the climate change protests across London", which then reveals that none of them are affected and then goes on to list Tube lines that have delays, none of which are due to XR.

Buelligan

Quote from: mr. logic on April 18, 2019, 09:52:02 AM
Aren't you an English person that moved abroad?



Hah, nope.  And it's a joke, see?  A "joke" about how the English swarm over other peoples' borders and install their own culture.  A joke about some old lad on his hill farm looking down into the valley and seeing the mess.  We weren't laughing either, not when they built the fucking Waitrose.

Sebastian Cobb

Why are people glueing themselves to trains? I thought climate people loved trains as a mode of transport despite them not actually being that green.

Fambo Number Mive

I think they chose to glue themselves to the DLR as it goes through Canary Wharf where Shell are based.

mr. logic

Quote from: Buelligan on April 18, 2019, 10:10:46 AM
Hah, nope.  And it's a joke, see?  A "joke" about how the English swarm over other peoples' borders and install their own culture.  A joke about some old lad on his hill farm looking down into the valley and seeing the mess.  We weren't laughing either, not when they built the fucking Waitrose.

Sorry, thought you were English. My mistake!

Buelligan

I forgive you though I have to admit, I've rarely been more insulted in my life.

Lisa Jesusandmarychain

You're not English? Always thought you were, missus.
So....Welsh? Irish? Scottish?  ( You *do* come across as very English. I always read your posts in a Penelope Keith voice )

Fambo Number Mive

BBC

QuoteExtinction Rebellion co-founder Dr Gail Bradbrook has warned that the group's tactics could escalate "if our demands are not met".

biggytitbo

Their main demand appears to be 'be as hyperbolic as us about this NOW'.

king_tubby

Even if Buelligan was English, she could not say this, because these days...

metaltax

Quote from: Paul Calf on April 18, 2019, 08:44:21 AM
Nah, just have a Cornetto and casually condemn the next generation to short miserable lives followed by early, painful deaths.

I'm not condemning anyone to anything. My lack of action is currently contributing exactly the same towards stopping/reversing ecological disaster as everyone involved in direct action, i.e. bugger all.