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More climate change protests in Central London

Started by Fambo Number Mive, April 15, 2019, 11:47:01 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Howj Begg

Show me one (1) person who sincerely cares about climate change, is left wing, and is suspicious of Greta Thunberg.

because that's not Paul Staines, is it.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Quote from: Paul Calf on April 24, 2019, 02:05:06 PM
Biggy's done a controversial.

I posted the article a month or two ago which I think biggy has absorbed hook line and sinker, and it is a similar case study in cherry picking elements that reinforce existing world views and prejudices but full of assertions without definite joins.

There is definitely legitimate concern about Greta being exploited but what hasn't been adequately explained is why there is a direct connection between that and all the money in the world ending up in the hands of the elite.

All the policies ER are proposing would seem to drastically affect corporate growth and profits in the short term at the expense of investment and divestment flavouring green technology.


jobotic

Quote from: Howj Begg on April 24, 2019, 01:58:00 PM
: 0 Toby Young is coming out with the same dishonest deflective bullshit as biggytitbo! Whod've thought it???

https://twitter.com/toadmeister/status/1120998371416788993

Poor Tobes. Just because she isn't an embarrassment to her parents.

Cuellar

I think the message is: don't protest against climate change if you are a) a hippy that does yoga and looks scruffy, b) a slightly posh kid that doesn't look scruffy enough c) a 16 year old girl.

Howj Begg

Quote from: Cuellar on April 24, 2019, 02:18:32 PM
I think the message is: don't protest against climate change if you are a) a hippy that does yoga and looks scruffy, b) a slightly posh kid that doesn't look scruffy enough c) a 16 year old girl.

d) have bought a coffee before e) are middle class f) are young g) are old

greenman

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 24, 2019, 02:13:19 PMAll the policies ER are proposing would seem to drastically affect corporate growth and profits in the short term at the expense of investment and divestment flavouring green technology.

I mean he's not entirely wrong that environmentalism has been commercialised to some degree but its mostly in the form of small shifts to the existing order stuff like diesels getting questionable road tax subsidies. If anything his hated countryfile class are more into that side thinking the world can be saved by the tax free mini wildmill attached to their garden chicken coup.

Its much moreso the bigger shifts more likely to involve direct public involvement that scare the great and the good, money could be there to be made but less predictably than the current status quo.

biggytitbo

#366
I'm just very surprised that such media savvy people can't spot a very obvious very well funded and backed consent manufacturing marketing campaign when they see it, as if some random 16 year old girl suddenly is on the telly all the time, and has the ear of the world economic forum in davos, the EU and multiple governments around the world.


There's always been two issues here - what is the problem and what do we do about it? The latter has spectacular scope for going disastrously wrong and or being disastrously abused.


Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 24, 2019, 02:13:19 PM
All the policies ER are proposing would seem to drastically affect corporate growth and profits in the short term at the expense of investment and divestment flavouring green technology.


Well we're told their actual policies aren't very important, but even if they were there are lots of corporations, and lots of them would lose out tremendously if we called a climate emergency. But then there are lots of people aswell, and 99% of them lose out when there's a financial crisis don't they? Corporations (or more accurately financial entities) exist in the exact same kind of  inverted pyramid where a small number hold almost all the power. They aren't going to lose out, indeed as I said they want all the money and associated power, and everything that fails beneath them will be eaten up in the process.

Howj Begg

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/apr/24/support-for-extinction-rebellion-soars-in-wake-of-easter-protests

QuoteSupport for Extinction Rebellion in the UK has quadrupled in the past nine days as public concern about the scale of the ecological crisis grows.

Since the wave of protests began more than a week ago, 30,000 new backers or volunteers have offered their support to the environmental activist group. In the same period it has raised almost £200,000 – mostly in donations of between £10 and £50 – reaching a total of £365,000 since January.

The group said the figures showed the public was waking up to the scale of the crisis, adding that pressure was growing on politicians to act.

"What this shows is that Extinction Rebellion has spoken to people who have been wanting to act on this for such a long time but haven't known how," said a spokesperson for the group. "The debate on this is over – ordinary people are now saying it is time for politicians to act with real urgency."

Diane Abbott backed the demonstrators in a speech to the eco-activists in Parliament Square on Wednesday.

The shadow home secretary told a crowd of up to 100 protesters – one of whom towered above the group on six-foot stilts while others wielded banners – that she acknowledged a "climate emergency", one of the group's key demands.

Abbott also emphasised that MPs needed to come together to host a "broad conversation" on one of the activists' requests to bring the country's greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2025.

She said: "I wouldn't be in politics if I didn't think change was possible. If things can change on the issues that I campaigned on when I was a very young woman, I think that things can change ... on climate change and we can move towards the 2025 target."

Abbott suggested meeting Extinction Rebellion for a detailed discussion of policy aims – a proposal met with rapturous applause. She reiterated her commitment to learning and listening to protesters and said that, in the long term, climate change was more important than Brexit.

biggytitbo

Quote from: greenman on April 24, 2019, 02:38:00 PM
Its much moreso the bigger shifts more likely to involve direct public involvement that scare the great and the good, money could be there to be made but less predictably than the current status quo.


It's precisely the vast riches of the public purse they want. The 2008 financial crisis was a mere appetizer as to how enriching a crisis that requires state action can be, the proposed 'climate emergency' would make it look like a few pennies in a buskers hat. Like world wars, but that go on for generations rather than burn themselves out in 5 years or so.

BlodwynPig

Quote from: biggytitbo on April 24, 2019, 02:49:42 PM
I'm just very surprised that such media savvy people can't spot a very obvious very well funded and backed consent manufacturing marketing campaign when they see it, as if some random 16 year old girl suddenly is on the telly all the time, and has the ear of the world economic forum in davos, the EU and multiple governments around the world.


There's always been two issues here - what is the problem and what do we do about it? The latter has spectacular scope for going disastrously wrong and or being disastrously abused.



Well we're told their actual policies aren't very important, but even if they were there are lots of corporations, and lots of them would lose out tremendously if we called a climate emergency. But then there are lots of people aswell, and 99% of them lose out when there's a financial crisis don't they? Corporations (or more accurately financial entities) exist in the exact same kind of  inverted pyramid where a small number hold almost all the power. They aren't going to lose out, indeed as I said they want all the money and associated power, and everything that fails beneath them will be eaten up in the process.

Are these financial entities beyond sentient?

greenman

Quote from: biggytitbo on April 24, 2019, 02:49:42 PM
I'm just very surprised that such media savvy people can't spot a very obvious very well funded and backed consent manufacturing marketing campaign when they see it, as if some random 16 year old girl suddenly is on the telly all the time, and has the ear of the world economic forum in davos, the EU and multiple governments around the world.

I suspect the attraction is exactly because her message is so simplified, the belief she can be used to  build political capital without much real commitment, a photo op and a vague promise to "do something".

Howj Begg

Note: Biggy said exactly the same thing about the Parkland shooting survivors, and we have of course seen how firearm regulation has been successfully monetised by big capital ever since.

Edit: What's that? We haven't? You are so naive!

ajsmith2

#372
I notice the climate change denyin' likes of Toby Young, Delingpole etc, have recently been going after David Attenborough for his endorsement of CC on that recent doc by semi-successfully trying to get #Attenbollocks trending. Seems a significant shift to me, as I always got the impression that Attenborough (due to his forever-present immortality, old school aura, and the fact he mainly presents quality docs on impeachable universally appealing nature subjects) has always been considered immune from criticism even by most on the right. Even a zeitgeist-riding right wing firebrand like Count Dankula has regularly spoken of his love for DA, so non partisan was his appeal up until (apparently) this moment.

Below, a recent cartoon emanating from the garrets described above. I call it less than convincing and unworthy as a criticism of a personage of DAs stature. I don't care if you disagree with his stance, seeing him lazily scribbled and shunted into a line up of other CC advocates as if he's just another flimsy fashionista to make some farted out partisan point scoring just makes the perpetrator look like an uncultured dunce. The same people were no doubt posting po faced tweets linking to the clip of Kenneth Clarke outside Notre Dame in 1969 last week. Well dipshits: THIS IS SAME STATURE OF GUY WE'RE DEALING WITH. BIT OF RESPECT!!!!!!!


Gerald Fjord

Could I have a clear, non-cryptic delineation of who the shadowy interests behind Greta Thurnberg are and how they stand to profit from her fame? Thanks pals.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Would love it if Labour really did the revolutionary act of subscribing to parts of Extinction Rebellion, it would give a lot of their socialist policies cover. I regret they will probably not do that.

However, even so, ER coming from the fringes to the mainstream makes Labour's social democracy platform look modest and therefore...more electable?


jobotic

Why are you showing us the poster you've put up above your mum's computer?

Howj Begg

Just seen this image on Facebook. So biggy's talking points are out there. Apparently manufactured by this page, which was linked under the image:

http://humansarefree.com/2018/11/all-lies-about-global-warming-debunked.html



The whole site looks like biggy's unredacted

http://humansarefree.com/

imitationleather

Quote from: Howj Begg on April 24, 2019, 06:45:29 PM
Just seen this image on Facebook. So biggy's talking points are out there. Apparently manufactured by this page, which was linked under the image:

http://humansarefree.com/2018/11/all-lies-about-global-warming-debunked.html

Ah man. I only lasted a few paragraphs of that. So much stupidity. I can't handle it.

BlodwynPig


BlodwynPig

Quote from: imitationleather on April 24, 2019, 06:51:57 PM
Ah man. I only lasted a few paragraphs of that. So much stupidity. I can't handle it.

On one side there are the smug, goading twats who are not particularly dumb, but love to get a rise out of people, then there are those who are educated (most of my colleagues and supervisor here) but have "right-wing" views, where taxes and jobs trump any concerns for others/environment, and then there are the idiots. Actually my supervisor just doesn't listen to reason or facts despite being an academic ("global warming is a good thing - Canada is too cold", climate = weather)

Buelligan

Quote from: BlodwynPig on April 24, 2019, 07:03:51 PM
Hitler was a great environmentalist.

My grandmother always said he had a titty nose.  I think she was correct.

phes

#382
Quote from: Howj Begg on April 24, 2019, 06:45:29 PM
Just seen this image on Facebook. So biggy's talking points are out there. Apparently manufactured by this page, which was linked under the image:

http://humansarefree.com/2018/11/all-lies-about-global-warming-debunked.html




Sounds like the same shit Patrick Moore (not that one) and his cranks have been peddling for years. The Patrick Moore who did his forestry/ecology undergrad and PhD when CO2 was about 200ppm, spent some time running Greenpeace then fucked off to be a corporate shill forever, and apparently he thinks he's an expert in atmospheric science now.

I've been enjoying this guy's writing lately as I am partial to a bit of we're all fucked already, face up to it!

https://consciousnessofsheep.co.uk/2019/04/15/not-so-good-news/

BlodwynPig

Quote from: phes on April 24, 2019, 11:10:15 PM
Sounds like the same shit Patrick Moore (not that one) and his cranks have been peddling for years. The Patrick Moore who did his forestry/ecology undergrad and PhD when CO2 was about 200ppm, spent some time running Greenpeace then fucked off to be a corporate shill forever, and apparently he thinks he's an expert in atmospheric science now.

I've been enjoying this guy's writing lately as I am partial to a bit of we're all fucked already, face up to it!

https://consciousnessofsheep.co.uk/2019/04/15/not-so-good-news/

cheers for this...just to post the nub

QuoteThere is a place for renewable energy in our future; just not the one we were promised.  As we are forced to re-localise and de-grow both our economies and our total population, the use of non-renewable renewable-energy harvesting technologies to maintain critical infrastructure such as health systems, water treatment and sewage disposal, and some key agricultural and industrial processes would make the transition less deadly.  More likely, however, is that we will find the technologies we need to prevent the combination of war, famine and pestilence that otherwise awaits us will have been squandered on powering oil wells, coal mines, electric car chargers, computer datacentres and cryptocurrencies (none of which are edible by the way).

Mister Six

Huh, the climate change thead got to 13 pages. How did that happen? Let's have a look....

Quote from: biggytitbo on April 24, 2019, 02:53:44 PM
It's precisely the vast riches of the public purse they want. The 2008 financial crisis was a mere appetizer as to how enriching a crisis that requires state action can be, the proposed 'climate emergency' would make it look like a few pennies in a buskers hat. Like world wars, but that go on for generations rather than burn themselves out in 5 years or so.

Ah.

phes

Quote from: BlodwynPig on April 24, 2019, 11:44:42 PM
cheers for this...just to post the nub


Most of his posts are worth a read, the recent Ebbw Vale one is good. Topical this week given Greta Thunberg lecturing our politicians about economic growth as a measure of prosperity being folly, the climate change denial post in the environment section that highlights the tragedy of Thatcher having been academically and almost spiritually equiped to set us in a more sensible direction and ballsing it up anyway because, Thatcher.

Fambo Number Mive

#386
Climate protesters have glued themselves to the Stock Exchange

It also looks like they've got on top of another DLR train

greenman

Quote from: biggytitbo on April 24, 2019, 02:53:44 PM

It's precisely the vast riches of the public purse they want. The 2008 financial crisis was a mere appetizer as to how enriching a crisis that requires state action can be, the proposed 'climate emergency' would make it look like a few pennies in a buskers hat. Like world wars, but that go on for generations rather than burn themselves out in 5 years or so.

Again I think what there after is the various often public subsidies for stuff with questionable merits, either not being eco at all or being a very inefficient way to lower emissions. There isn't nearly the same interest in large scale public works like say the proposed(and now defunded) tidal lagoon in the Severn estuary because the potential for skimming off public money for profit isn't nearly so great.

A Corbyn government could look to that kind of large scale project as both ecologically sound and as an investment in the economy as whole creating decent jobs.

Gerald Fjord

There is ample evidence to suggest that Greta Thurnberg is being propagated by powerful interests in order to provoke a program of massive emergency funding in green energy in order that these same interests can then make a killing investing in green energy which is a bad thing because they are part of the elite. If you think capitalism was bad before, wait until it finds a way to operate in precisely the same manner but with less detrimental effect to the environment. I hope you bought your shitting pants, because it's already begun, idiots.

Paul Calf

Quote from: BlodwynPig on April 24, 2019, 11:44:42 PM
cheers for this...just to post the nub


Music to the ears fo someone who wants to murder everyone over the age of 62, eh blods?