Topic: More climate change protests in Central London

[Pancake]

Don't give a shit about the planet and am happy for this stupid race to choke itself to death on diesel fumes

[Autopsy Turvey]

LThe bigger issue here is how Climate Change has been lumped in with the culture wars. It's a political and not a scientific discussion and climate change denail is just another badge of honor for these alt-right, gammony, UKIP, Brexity, Trumpian turds to proudly wear around their necks.

This might arguably be a suspicious reaction to the way the left has turned the environment into a political football, telling kids we will all be dead in 12 years unless we dismantle capitalism, increase state control, allow unrestricted mass migration, and have Dexys Midnight Runners playing free daily in the university library etc. Indeed while rueing the politicisation of the issue you’re happily apportioning blame to ‘gammony alt-right UKIP types’ while ignoring the rapacious industrial expansion of China, India and other developing world powers. But that’s a really tricky problem to address, far easier to score potshots at the sort of subhuman vermin who like Jeremy Clarkson.

[biggytitbo]

So? What is your point? You going down the 2nd Referendum march argument with this one that just because people might be middle class they are intrinsically not worth listening to. On some level I agree with you about the absolute cloth-earred cluelessness of the 2nd referendum lot but you doing yourself no favours if you just cut and paste your arguments over for this one.

Well it was a reply to the claim they must all be unemployed. From what i've seen they are more likely to have the kind of jobs that make it easy for them to pop off for a climate rebellion than to be on the dole.

I'm not one for marches and whatnot but to me ER are just a bunch of people who give a shit about a massive fucking problem that is staring us in the face. Strip away everything else and they have two demands:

1. That the public are given the correct information about the reality of climate change.
2. That governments do something about it not and not fuck around the edges for years to come until it is too late.

I couldn't give a shit if it's middle class people raising this or not. As for your sneery attitude implying its a middle class concern I'll let AOC explain it to you better than I can. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0qn23Pt99Y

If we were really facing extinction we'd switch over to nuclear power, which is a realistic, proven way to solve the issue in a generation or so.


I think the thing about a middle class concern, whether that's true or not doesn't really matter, the problem is its essentially been the same people banging us over the heads with catastrophism as the go to strategy for close to 30 years now and it's not proven to be very effective has it? Most people still shrug.

[Cuellar]

If we were really facing extinction we'd switch over to nuclear power, which is a realistic, proven way to solve the issue in a generation or so.

We could still be facing extinction and NOT have switched to nuclear power/renewable energy.

The phrase 'beautiful clean coal' springs to mind, not to mention 'wind cancer'.

[buzby]

I got the train from Montpellier to Nice a couple of years back. It was something like £30 to buy a ticket on the day for a 5 hour 300km journey. The trains were old stock but there were clean and comfortable and had plenty of room for everyone. Am I missing something when we are told how important it is to have these brand-spanking new stock that only private rail companies can provide? If they clean, have working toilets and a drinks trolley who gives a shit about what else? The wi-fi is extra and never works (4G on phone is more reliable) so why are we paying a premium price? Is it all shareholder dividends?

Yes. The passenger's ticket price goes to the Train Operating Company (TOC) and the government also pays the TOC a subsidy. The rail company pays Network Rail for it's track access slots (which is government-run after the failure of Railtrack as a privatised entity following the Hatfield crash), and a Rolling Stock Operating Company (ROSCO) to lease the trains. From what's left it pays for it's staff, station upkeep and maintenance of the rolling stock. Any profit left over goes to it's shareholders. The ROSCO also has shareholders, so sets it's lease prices for rolling stock accordingly to generate some profit.

In France, the goverment pays SNCF a subsidy on top of their income from tickets and freight operations to build and maintain the infrastructure, run the trains and maintian and buy rolling stock. Their trains are a lot more roomy due in part to them using continental loading gauge.

Ironically the nationalised state rail operators form many European countries are shareholders in most of the UK TOCs, so our rail subsidies are going back to help pay for the railways in France, Germany and the Netherlands.

[Sebastian Cobb]

It takes about 20 years to build a nuclear power plant. We should've been building them in the 90's. but sadly successive governments from both sides did fuck all about our ageing power plants and increased demand and chose to kick the can down the road.

We're now at an impasse where everyone who remembers how to build a nuclear power plant is either too old or emigrated. And by the time they've built the things renewables will probably be in a better place to take over anyway.

[DoesNotFollow]

Went to a few local XR meetings in the past weeks - mainly out of curiosity and support my pal who was facilitating the meetings. It was a newly set up group so only just starting to show some cohesion but my impression was a small-ish but pretty varied group of people united by their concern about climate change and the environment.

Non-violence is stressed so the smashed windows is a bit concerning. Although from BBC news:

By intentionally causing more than £6,000 damage at the Shell headquarters activists aim to get the case into crown court to put their case to a jury, the campaign said.

[buzby]

It takes about 20 years to build a nuclear power plant. We should've been building them in the 90's. but sadly successive governments from both sides did fuck all about our ageing power plants and increased demand and chose to kick the can down the road.

We're now at an impasse where everyone who remembers how to build a nuclear power plant is either too old or emigrated. And by the time they've built the things renewables will probably be in a better place to take over anyway.

It was a real shame too as we had eventually developed a really good design (a version of the Westinghouse PWR design but with added safety improvements) but as we only ever built one of them (Sizewell B) the cost of developing it was pissed away. Now we are building one based on an unproven French design which even they admit is a bit crap and have written off.

[Sin Agog]

Good people, got no qualms, no snidey little asides about the fuel they used to get there or anything like that.  Just keep up the good work, and ask Gaia why she never returns my calls anymore.

[hummingofevil]

Well it was a reply to the claim they must all be unemployed. From what i've seen they are more likely to have the kind of jobs that make it easy for them to pop off for a climate rebellion than to be on the dole.


If we were really facing extinction we'd switch over to nuclear power, which is a realistic, proven way to solve the issue in a generation or so.


I think the thing about a middle class concern, whether that's true or not doesn't really matter, the problem is its essentially been the same people banging us over the heads with catastrophism as the go to strategy for close to 30 years now and it's not proven to be very effective has it? Most people still shrug.

I do get it. You have a loathing for what you perceive to be a centrist middle class elite and your entire identity is to oppose everything you think they believe in. That’s fine. It’s perfectly normal and is basically a prerequisite for being an adult man under 30 (or a teenage goth).

I just find it amusing that, as one who claims to wish for a new socialist utopia your loathing of the middle classes never extends as far as boorish golf club types who too seem to have the “type of jobs“ that afford them the opportunity to take afternoons off to talk Brexit on the 19th hole, and instead focus your smart on those who might actually give a shit about things that condemn the world’s poorest people to indefinite poverty.

[biggytitbo]

It takes about 20 years to build a nuclear power plant. We should've been building them in the 90's. but sadly successive governments from both sides did fuck all about our ageing power plants and increased demand and chose to kick the can down the road.

We're now at an impasse where everyone who remembers how to build a nuclear power plant is either too old or emigrated. And by the time they've built the things renewables will probably be in a better place to take over anyway.

I bet if we were really facing extinction we could get on and build them quicker than that, look at what we were able to do in 6 years of a world war. Maybe the ruling elite already have the private invitation only space arks built, tethered in giant lock up garages somewhere, ready to go. No point bothering with the relatively trivial solution to this extinction crisis if you can fuck off off the planet all together.


On the safety thing, France has pretty much got civilian nuclear power nailed hasn't it? How many accidents have they had?

[greenman]

I think fusion research is a waste of time. 20 years ago when I was at Manchester all my professors were telling us that fusion of electricity production was the panacea for all our energy needs and is "20 years away". We are a tiny step closer than we were but nowhere near large scale production. Happy to be convinced otherwise mind.

Absolutely agree with you on renewables. The UK gov stopping the Swansea lagoon as it is too expensive is a disgrace. As a Welsh person it would be nice for the people of Wales to actually get something back in return for all its resources and water other than generations of poverty but with a coordinated and FAIR approach we could easily produce enough energy for our requirements through renewables.

The bigger issue here is how Climate Change has been lumped in with the culture wars. It's a political and not a scientific discussion and climate change denail is just another badge of honor for these alt-right, gammony, UKIP, Brexity, Trumpian turds to proudly wear around their necks.

I think exactly what we hope to and might be able to achieve with fusion would need to be made much clearer than it has been so far but I suspect the level of funding is also a very significant issue, its nowhere anywhere close to the kind of money that was thrown at Fission research in the mid 20th century.

A big issue with renewables for me is that a lot of the environmental lobby seems tied up in various private interests and NIMBYism, I mean you don't want massive public projects without a good  realistic plan in place but I think some environmental tradeoffs are inevitable.

I mean whats going on with Nuclear at the moment just makes a nonsense of ye old "balance the books like a family credit card" fantasy doesn't it? just instead of public debt we have guarantees to buy power at an inflated rate from the Chinese for decades.

[hummingofevil]

A big issue with renewables for me is that a lot of the environmental lobby seems tied up in various private interests and NIMBYism, I mean you don't want massive public projects without a good  realistic plan in place but I think some environmental tradeoffs are inevitable.

At risk at getting all Sons Of Glyndwr about it the main issue with NIMBYism with renewables is when local people do not get a dividend from the natural resources. Railway lines and pipelines get built quick enough when its coal or water or electricity that goes one way but the people living in Wales don't seem to get any benefits from this as it's imposed upon them by UK. It's deeply unfair. Add to that the idea that the only reason we not getting new nuclear in North Wales is Chinese pulling funding after UK gov green lighted it whilst simultaneously blocking renewable investment then I can see how in these cases there is a relevant case to argue. It's like the fracking issue. Local decision making only seems to matter when the locals are willing to take the easy bribe of the government. If they resist then they are ignored in favour of corporate interest regardless of effect on local environment or climate.

The latest one is the UK gov looking of "volunteer host communities" to store our High Level Radioactive waste that comes with additional "investment" funding for local areas that take it. Now as someone who has stood on top of the stuff in Sellafield its not quite as bad as it sounds but you don't need me to tell you where they are suggesting to put these places. Put it this way draw a line as far away from the Tory heartlands of South East England and you are getting there.

[Uncle TechTip]

I'm sure this is just selective reporting but all the ones i've seen interviewed on the news are achingly middle class, the digital event planning consultancies they work for probably allow them free day's off to go to climate protest events.

Now now, I gave you the benefit of the doubt earlier - I'm wondering if this was a mistake.

Unless you feel there is no climate emergency, kindly fuck off.

[Zetetic]

You'll note that these people aren't protesting the shackling of Brexit. Very telling.

[Noonling]

What does it tell?

[Zetetic]

Oh, I think you know. I think you know.

20 bus routes on diversion.

For people who live outside of London and aren't familiar with the place, 'bus route' refers to a form of public transport. They're a bit like Pacer trains, but on roads.

[Howj Begg]

You'll note that these people aren't protesting the shackling of Brexit. Very telling.

Can we even call them people, if they're possibly middle class?

[jobotic]

It's the classic Brendan O'Neill line of 'argument'!

Only the EDL pass the Biggy O'Niell test.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I've never seen so many white people in one place

[BlodwynPig]

Military aircraft are often used for flying supplies to countries hit by extreme weather, but I agree about banning private jets, helicopters and drones.

First class on trains should be renamed business class and not allowed to make up more than 11% of the train at the weekends or 22% of the train on weekdays to encourage more people to travel by train.  How often do you see a nearly empty first class carriage on a train with loads of crowded normal carriages.

I just sit in first class and tell the guard i dont need the croissant and paper

[biggytitbo]

Now now, I gave you the benefit of the doubt earlier - I'm wondering if this was a mistake.

Unless you feel there is no climate emergency, kindly fuck off.

What's the argument then, it's a climate emergency and possible imminent extinction but nobody with any money or power believes it?

[hummingofevil]

What's the argument then, it's a climate emergency and possible imminent extinction but nobody with any money or power believes it?

What?

The data suggests we are very close to being fucked. Some models are more accurate than others but the overwhelming LIKELYHOOD is that we are fucked; possibly already but certainly soon. There are literally no credible people who deny this unless they have either the political or commercial motivation to blindly deiay any action or are just utter fuckwits who don’t understand the basic principles of what Science is and how Science works.

I can put you in touch with my mate who is a senior lecturer of climate Science at the Open University and holds dual PhDs in Particle and Theoretical Physics if you wanna discuss the data with her.

[Twit 2]

He’s not interested in facts or reality, you’re wasting your time.

[royce coolidge]

Biggy has always mocked strikes, protest, any sort of fight against the powers that be.
He really does hate people who won't accept the status quo,as silly childish dreamers.
His ultimate fantasy is to be sat on Trumps and Putins lap in control of their strike drones "who shall I put back in the box now Daddies?"

[Mr_Simnock]

Now now, I gave you the benefit of the doubt earlier - I'm wondering if this was a mistake.

Unless you feel there is no climate emergency, kindly fuck off.

滚动过去的'biggy'信息的男人将过着幸福的生活

[chveik]

the EPR is an environmental and economic disaster, it's not a rational option at all. and France is obviously not a good model, most of "our" nuclear plants are very old, experts keep telling the government that a incident could likely happen very soon, but they don't seem to care. the security is also pisspoor, greenpeace activists can come and go as they please, so it wouldn't be too difficult for an educated terrorist to do some terrible damage.

[chveik]

nevermind

[hummingofevil]

He’s not interested in facts or reality, you’re wasting your time.

No. It's fine. But as someone who has tried my best to take on board his view points in the other threads its interesting seeing it in action on this one.

[Fambo Number Mive]

Police claim that 113 people were arrested, five of which were for suspicion of criminal damage at Shell.