Why are hip-hop gigs often so crap?

[Blinder Data]

Is it an attitude thing from those hip-hoppers, that they must act billy big bollocks at all times and so performances are beneath them? Is it that gigs and commitment to "putting on a good show" have historically not been treated with the same seriousness as other genres?

Reading the comments of the GZA show in Leeds made me wonder. I've only been to a few but my experience has turned me off them. Honourable exception for Kenrick Lemar and Big Boi. Odd Future was exciting at the time but rather chaotic. Most other acts I've seen have been disappointing, including the promotion/organisation, sound quality and efforts from the performer.

I mean, MF Doom is a living legend, and he sends out his fat mate with a mask on to do his!

Why so crap so often?

[Al Tha Funkee Homosapien]

Because they don't play proper instruments, like Korn or Limp Bizkit.

[gilbertharding]

I've not seen much hip hop live. To be honest, I'm not *that* into it, as a genre - but I like what I've heard. Old stuff, mainly (although it was fairly new when I first heard it). Anyhoo... De La Soul were at one of the Reading Festivals I went to in the early 90s. I had their record. I should think most of the people there had their record.

Sadly, they weren't very good. Obviously, a large part of why they weren't very good was because it was Reading Festival in the middle of the afternoon. But another reason was that their set mainly consisted, from what I remember, of them dividing the audience into people over here, and people over there, and asking them to say 'Ho-oo!'. Then they asked all the ladies to say 'Ho-oo!'

I am not extrapolating this to encompass All Hip Hop, or Hip Hop in the Last 30 Years - but it happened, is all I'm saying.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I've seen De La Soul, I enjoyed it. I thought they had a reputation for putting on a good show.

I saw Public Enemy at Bestival early on and they weren't great. Flav had just released his biography and spent more time trying to plug that rather than do any rap singing.

[gilbertharding]

I reckon De La Soul in a club full of people who loved De La Soul would be great. I'm sure it was the fact it was a festival and everything that entails went a long way to explaining their lack of... I don't know what...

[Sin Agog]

I reckon De La Soul in a club full of people who loved De La Soul would be great. I'm sure it was the fact it was a festival and everything that entails went a long way to explaining their lack of... I don't know what...

When I saw De La Soul at Glastonbury with my brother, a feral little person climbed onto our shoulders (because we were both over 6ft, I guess) and proceeded to piss in a circle on everyone around us to clear up some space.  The rest of their set played out a bit like Italo Calvino's Baron in the Trees, except with more record scratching and increasingly naked dwarfs.

[BJBMK2]

I'm off to see De La Soul as part of this "Gods of Rap" thing next month.

Unfortunately I am seeing them in Manchester Area, in the cheap-cunts seating section located approximately one thousand miles from the stage.

All bodes well. 

[alan nagsworth]

Because they don't play proper instruments, like Korn or Limp Bizkit.

Joking aside, you're sort of right. I've seen Death Grips twice and they were fucking ace both times, and I saw Dälek last week and they were pretty good too. But both of these groups has stuff happening onstage that isn't just x MCs and y DJ.

In comparison, I saw Kool Keith some years back and were it not for the fact that I idolise his early shit and would tolerate pretty much anything to be in a venue as small as that standing 2ft away from him as he yells the chorus of "God of Rap" directly into my face, by all accounts you could have written that off as a "shit gig". He only performed about four songs in their entirety, and the rest of the set was odd verses and choruses of other tunes in a big medley that Kutmasta Kurt juggled. Keith then got tired and spent the last 20 mins of the stage time sat on the side of the stage signing merch.

Are these medleys commonplace at other hip hop shows? Or is it just because Kurt is a nut job who's probably forgotten more songs than he's written?

[Malcy]

I find it hard to watch live hip hop because they seem to shout rather than actually rap. It was the main thing that was putting me off the Gods Of Rap tour but I got a ticket anyway.

[Dex Sawash]

I skipped an Atmosphere show last month because I was worried it would be shit and maybe put me off Atmosphere.
Relies too much on producer and studio shit to work live, right?

[Dr Syntax Head]

Wish I had seen the Beastie Boys live but other than that Hip Hop is way better on record for me. It's a produced music that isn't really easy to dance to, it's pretty boring watching dudes posturing for an hour or so and I don't know, hip hop gigs never appealed. I guess for a hip hop show to work you need to put on some kind of theatre show.

[popcorn]

It is because rap is missing a letter, it is (c)rap music !!

[Dr Syntax Head]

I once worked with a racist guy who referred to it as c rap. He thought Eric Clapton was the high point in sonic art. He once went on about how good the chilli pepper's mother's milk album was. Trying to explain the obvious contradiction in his appraisal of that album and his perspective on hip hop fell on deaf (stupid) ears.

[momatt]

I find it hard to watch live hip hop because they seem to shout rather than actually rap.

This!
So many of the rappers do it (you've seen them).  It's almost as if they don't realise that the microphones already make their voices louder and shouting isn't needed.

[Urinal Cake]

It's a bit odd hip-hop has this reputation considering it partially came out of toasting and DJing from Carribbean culture.

Has anyone done a comparison between US hip-hop, UK grime/garage/rap and Dancehall etc?

[kalowski]

I find it hard to watch live hip hop because they seem to shout rather than actually rap. It was the main thing that was putting me off the Gods Of Rap tour but I got a ticket anyway.

It was the £150 that puteme off.
I have seen and loved Public Enemy - they are an incredible band, live. I enjoyed Dr La Soul first time, less impressed the second time I saw them. Never saw the Beasties.

I actually think rap has had its day. No one uses samples very well anymore. It all sounds very samey, like it's from some sort of rap soup.

[steveh]

Saw Public Enemy back in the mid-90s and the songs were fantastic but having got the audience hyped up and jumping around during one they'd then spend five minutes talking about this and that and all that momentum they'd built up would drain away. It was a frustrating watch.

[jobotic]

Saw Public Enemy with Gang Starr and EPMD in the nineties, in Brixton. Everyone was great but the sound was bloody awful for all but PE.

De LA Soul were great in some little place in Ladbroke Grove, but not so much at a festival. I've not seen anywhere as much live hip hop as I'd have hoped. There must be something else...

[iamcoop]

I saw MF Doom supporting Ghostface at the Roundhouse years ago and that gig was fucking mega. Similarly I saw a "Wu-Tang" show a few years ago that turned out to be just U-God and a couple of his mates and that gig has gone down in Newcastle folklore for how fucking appalling it was. I also once saw Roots Manuva and he was so off his face it was beyond terrible and I felt a bit worried for the guy to be honest. I also have mates who've seen him attempt to perform in similar states before and all said the same thing, that it was beyond bad and ended with most people booing him off.

[monkfromhavana]

I skipped an Atmosphere show last month because I was worried it would be shit and maybe put me off Atmosphere.
Relies too much on producer and studio shit to work live, right?

The only time I've seen Atmosphere (with Brother Ali) they were fantastic, but then again that was 10 years ago.

[Nice Relaxing Poo]

I've only seen one hip-hop gig really and that was D-12 at Leeds festival back in the day. It was properly shit, like I can't be arsed wasting my time standing here shit.

[alan nagsworth]

I actually think rap has had its day. No one uses samples very well anymore. It all sounds very samey, like it's from some sort of rap soup.

Go listen to MIKE's "MAY GOD BLESS YOUR HUSTLE" and Earl Sweatshirt's "Some Rap Songs", my dude.

[Noodle Lizard]

Yeah I saw D-12 (sans Eminem) in London on a whim and it was fucking awful.  Like watching a large group of friends doing karaoke, drunkenly shouting over each other as they walked aimlessly around the stage.  Most of the songs I knew were virtually unrecognizable due to the obnoxiously bass-heavy mix, though that might have been the venue more than their fault.

[The Lion King]

This!
So many of the rappers do it (you've seen them).  It's almost as if they don't realise that the microphones already make their voices louder and shouting isn't needed.

I'd agree with this and it also really depends on how aggressive the song they are performing originally sounded on recording. Sabotage by the Beastie Boys sounded amazing live, whereas more direct to ear complex lyrical songs don't work very well when screamed at full intensity. Someone mentioned Odd Future, I heard Tyler the creator do a live version of Yonkers where he pretty much shouted the whole thing. It really destroyed the sense of laid back menace that the original had. I think that is the case with a lot of guys who perform live, they lose the coolness of the recorded track because they get so hyped up.

[alan nagsworth]

Most people including the rappers at hip hop gigs are probably stoned up to the eyeballs and wavey off a few Hennesy and cokes, which is why the people performing get so dumb and shouty and the crowd find it so tolerable. It's only us clean, sober nerds who seem to have noticed it.

[kalowski]

Go listen to MIKE's "MAY GOD BLESS YOUR HUSTLE" and Earl Sweatshirt's "Some Rap Songs", my dude.

I'm happy to be wrong. It's just the newer stuff I've heard hasn't caught me like stuff from the early 90s. Of course, that might be because I'm older. I'm probably a bit out of touch. I have Astroworld from last year, which didn't impress me greatly. Other stuff I have is a few years old, like Westside Gunn, but doesn't move me.

[alan nagsworth]

I'm happy to be wrong. It's just the newer stuff I've heard hasn't caught me like stuff from the early 90s. Of course, that might be because I'm older. I'm probably a bit out of touch. I have Astroworld from last year, which didn't impress me greatly. Other stuff I have is a few years old, like Westside Gunn, but doesn't move me.

Aye fair enough. There is a lot of really exciting stuff happening in hip hop right now! Don't be so quick to cast it off. Travis Scott is a load of wank though, so that doesn't surprise me.

[kalowski]

Aye fair enough. There is a lot of really exciting stuff happening in hip hop right now! Don't be so quick to cast it off. Travis Scott is a load of wank though, so that doesn't surprise me.

Grr. I've obviously been sent down the wrong tunnel. What's good these days?

[alan nagsworth]

Grr. I've obviously been sent down the wrong tunnel. What's good these days?

I'm not an avid fan of the genre, admittedly, but the aforementioned MIKE and Earl albums are brilliant: really forward thinking, woozy, stream of consciousness and, in Earl's case, abstract to the point of bordering on avant garde. As far as slow rap music is concerned, mumble rap just doesn't do it for me at all, but this style of sluggish heart on sleeve weirdness is something I find thrilling.

Other stuff I've really enjoyed in recent years:

Mr. Muthafuckin eXquire - Brainiac EP (2017) and Kismet (2013)
This dude is seriously overlooked, very talented with a wonderfully eclectic palette.

Joey Bada$$ - 1999 (2012)
Freddie Gibbs & Madlib - Pinata (2014)
If you dig straight up sample based "classic" stuff, I recommend this the most. Joey's "Waves" is a fucking incredible tune and Pinata stands as one of the best hip hop albums I've ever heard.

Denzel Curry - TA13OO (2018)
I don't know this dude other than this one album but it's ace. Trap beats really grate on me but he just makes it work. Raw and aggressive, loads of fun.

Bet they're all shite live though. Madlib is an utterly tedious DJ, from my own experience.

[Al Tha Funkee Homosapien]

Denzel Curry - TA13OO (2018)
I don't know this dude other than this one album but it's ace. Trap beats really grate on me but he just makes it work. Raw and aggressive, loads of fun.

This set by Denzel looks fairly enjoyable, although it does fall into 'just shout in the mic territory' occasionally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3Na6oy8c9E