The Life of Brian is 40 years old...

[Revelator]

In 2000 years will there be a film with Jews singing in gas chambers?

The cross was a general method of execution for people of all ethnicities and religions, so your point is beside the point.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

Third is excellent to begin with but tails off. Second's where it's at.

The fourth series is the best, of course.

[Autopsy Turvey]

The fourth series is the best, of course.

This is wacky, but fair dos. I love virtually all of it, although the Westminster Bridge skit goes on forever and some ideas are rather overly familiar, even self-referential, like the Queen Victoria handicap, the piston engine pepperpot chat and the Man Who Finishes Other People's Sentences.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

I just love the way that the fourth series goes for out and out surrealism, as you can see they were straining at the leash to do with third series sketches like Lake Pahoe and Tudor Job Agency / Sir Philip Sidney.
In many ways, the first and last series of Monty Python('s Flying Circus ) were as different as those of "Happy Days ".

[kalowski]

I just love the way that the fourth series goes for out and out surrealism, as you can see they were straining at the leash to do with third series sketches like Lake Pahoe and Tudor Job Agency / Sir Philip Sidney.
In many ways, the first and last series of Monty Python('s Flying Circus ) were as different as those of "Happy Days ".

The first series is very surreal too, but in a different way. Think of how they all sit on pigs in episode one, for example, or the Scotsman/blancmange episode.

[Autopsy Turvey]

Yes and the Vegetarian Restaurant sketch nails a genuinely dreamlike state as powerfully as any Python. We've yapped about it a few times now, but the way this fairly ordinary scenario drifts into Palin's intense bloodthirsty fantasies, followed by a string of disconnected non-sequiturs, then the waiter's old headmaster wanders in waffling nonsense, then the Greek Prologue turns up for a couple of seconds, and they end on an even weirder and darker note with "Nobody cares what I think. I'm always the one that has to do everything. Nobody cares about me. Well I'm going to have a lot of bloody babies and they can bloody well care about me. Makes you sick half this television. They never stop talking, he'll be the ruination of her, RHYTHM METHOD." It was one of the few Python sketches that really threw me (along with Michael Ellis).

[Revelator]

On a coincidental note, Cleese is busy discussing Christianity on twitter.
(https://twitter.com/JohnCleese)

[Phoenix Lazarus]

Yes and the Vegetarian Restaurant sketch nails a genuinely dreamlike state as powerfully as any Python. We've yapped about it a few times now, but the way this fairly ordinary scenario drifts into Palin's intense bloodthirsty fantasies, followed by a string of disconnected non-sequiturs, then the waiter's old headmaster wanders in waffling nonsense, then the Greek Prologue turns up for a couple of seconds, and they end on an even weirder and darker note with "Nobody cares what I think. I'm always the one that has to do everything. Nobody cares about me. Well I'm going to have a lot of bloody babies and they can bloody well care about me. Makes you sick half this television. They never stop talking, he'll be the ruination of her, RHYTHM METHOD." It was one of the few Python sketches that really threw me (along with Michael Ellis).

Just watched it, and I agree completely.  One of their weirdest.

For those who've not seen it, or don't remember: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2mkubc

[squiggle]

Easily Python's worst film. Gratuitous swearing (Joe Orton referencing or not, not funny) , gratuitous nudity , dull, linear storyline,  (very Unpython, that),Spike Milligan in an unfunny, nothingy cameo, getting laughs out of people with speech impediments, that fucking Eric Idle song at the end... In stark contrast to the massively inventive, and , indeed, madcap and zany "Monty Python and the Holy Grail". Indeed, this film may mark the moment that Python started becoming more trad. comic and unfunny ("Meaning Of Life" is patchy, but there's some good stuff in there ). Even the tie-in book and soundtrack album are dull.

I agree with a lot of this. Life of Brian is really very conventional comedy, in that it's essentially satire, while Holy Grail is much stranger, more absurd and closer to the bone in a similar way that Chris Morris could be. The satire in Brian is very good, but that's all it is. Brian really doesn't feel much like a distinctively Python film in the manner of the TV series, which was beyond the level of satire.

I admit I have a grudge against Life of Brian though because many years ago I watched it with a group of people including someone with quite severe cerebral palsy, and we sat through the Biggus Dickus scene in anxiety and crucified embarrassment wondering how she felt watching someone with a speech impediment (not nearly as strong as hers) being made fun of like that. None of us could enjoy the rest of the film after that.

[Autopsy Turvey]

The satire in Brian is very good, but that's all it is.

That's not *all* it is, it's character comedy too! And wit. And there is the space aliens, I know some people hate that but it's kind of the most Python moment in the whole film, after "Wolf's Nipple Chips, get 'em while they're 'ot they're lovely."

[squiggle]

That's not *all* it is, it's character comedy too! And wit. And there is the space aliens, I know some people hate that but it's kind of the most Python moment in the whole film, after "Wolf's Nipple Chips, get 'em while they're 'ot they're lovely."

I'd forgotten the space aliens! That's true and I like that bit, but as you imply (I think) it's quite out of keeping with the rest of the film, which is part of why it's so funny. And I agree there is comedy based on character, but of course that is traditional stuff, though quite well done.

Really I just think the two films aren't in the same league, and Holy Grail is one of the few really great films ever made for its combination of genuine strangeness and messing with your sense of reality while being very funny. Maybe it's hard to experience now the exhilaration of being taken completely by surprise by the sudden police intrusion at the end for instance.  I have to admit I do dislike the fact that Brian seems to be the better regarded film now, it's like Morris being more remembered for Nathan Barley than The Day Today or Blue Jam.

That is slight hyperbole on my part and I take it back immediately.

[Twed]

Also Life of Brian is all sandy. Yuck.

[Phoenix Lazarus]

Holy Grail is one of the few really great films ever made for its combination of genuine strangeness and messing with your sense of reality while being very funny. Maybe it's hard to experience now the exhilaration of being taken completely by surprise by the sudden police intrusion at the end for instance. 

That bit where the medieval soldiers gallops into modern times and cuts down that man quite disturbed me the first time I saw it, as a child.

[olliebean]

Also Life of Brian is all sandy. Yuck.

Holy Grail is all muddy though.

[Blumf]

Maybe it's hard to experience now the exhilaration of being taken completely by surprise by the sudden police intrusion at the end for instance.

Mind you, Blazing Saddles did something similar the year before.

[Petey Pate]

Has there been much discussion on here of the deleted scene with Otto the Jewish Nazi and the suicide squad? Personally, I don't think removing it from the film was a great loss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of4tBSreW84

[Jockice]

I admit I have a grudge against Life of Brian though because many years ago I watched it with a group of people including someone with quite severe cerebral palsy, and we sat through the Biggus Dickus scene in anxiety and crucified embarrassment wondering how she felt watching someone with a speech impediment (not nearly as strong as hers) being made fun of like that. None of us could enjoy the rest of the film after that.

I seem to have a complicated and pretty rare degenerative medical condition which is often mistaken for cerebral palsy and has given me a speech impediment in the last few years, which is in itself a rarity for this condition. And has fucked up my employment prospects etc. But I still find that scene funny.

I suppose it all depended on how the lass with CP reacted though. Not just to that but to the rest of the film. If she'd been laughing all the way through and then had a face like thunder through that scene I'd personally have thought she was being a bit oversensitive. But I know from experience how embarrassing it is when everyone else is aware that you're the only disabled person there and is VERY careful about what they say and what they laugh at. And yet seem to think that they're not making it obvious. A difficult situation from both sides but everyone has different cut-off points, things they get offended by etc. We are all individuals. Insert punchline here.

On a siightly different subject I'm wondering whether the debate about whether Holy Grail or Life Of Brian is the best depends on which one you saw first. For me it was Life Of Brian at the cinema (on a double bill with Airplane - how good is that?) and when I saw Holy Grail a couple of years later I was a bit disappointed. Can't really explain why but I just was.

[EOLAN]

Mind you, Blazing Saddles did something similar the year before.

True as that is; they both do it extremely differently. Of course the Holy Grail has more set-up for the intrusion at the end from the modern "real" world but the manner it is done is more shocking. Blazing Saddles effectively uses it to build up the farce and energy. Holy Grail; setting up a big invasion of the castle; the big build up music; showing all the soldiers get ready; panning across - set off on their charge for the great battle finale and all of a sudden cut off by a couple of good old British coppers; not even a huge swathe of them and then the hand just covering the camera. From a viewer point; it probably the most sudden and unexpected ending to a film when I first watched as a child.
Even more so nowadays when the film may end but you get about 5 minutes of credits that help you settle into the film having ended.

[EOLAN]

On a siightly different subject I'm wondering whether the debate about whether Holy Grail or Life Of Brian is the best depends on which one you saw first. For me it was Life Of Brian at the cinema (on a double bill with Airplane - how good is that?) and when I saw Holy Grail a couple of years later I was a bit disappointed. Can't really explain why but I just was.

Meaning of Life for me; which is probably the last of the three main ones I seen. Mainly 'cos I am a contrarion fucker and I love the multitude of musical numbers. Holy Grail above Life of Brian then.
Would have "And Now for Something Completely Different" above "Hollywood Bowl" if the Dirty Fork sketch had the same style of entrance for John Cleese; as he has to manoeuvre around the chandelier in his chef's hat; but that wonderful entrance is totally diminished. Plus Hollywood Bowl is where I first saw the Philosophers football match sketch.

[squiggle]

I seem to have a complicated and pretty rare degenerative medical condition which is often mistaken for cerebral palsy and has given me a speech impediment in the last few years, which is in itself a rarity for this condition. And has fucked up my employment prospects etc. But I still find that scene funny.

I suppose it all depended on how the lass with CP reacted though. Not just to that but to the rest of the film. If she'd been laughing all the way through and then had a face like thunder through that scene I'd personally have thought she was being a bit oversensitive. But I know from experience how embarrassing it is when everyone else is aware that you're the only disabled person there and is VERY careful about what they say and what they laugh at. And yet seem to think that they're not making it obvious. A difficult situation from both sides but everyone has different cut-off points, things they get offended by etc. We are all individuals. Insert punchline here.

The really difficult thing about it was that her manifestation of Cerebral Palsy was quite severe, and such that none of us could tell whether she was bothered by the scene or not, or whether she found it funny - it was very difficult for her to communicate things to us, who weren't attuned enough to know how to receive and understand her ways of conveying her thoughts and feelings. So I think we all felt completely at sea and clueless as to how to react (we're talking young university students here, for context).

Exactly as you say,a [very] difficult situation from both sides. If she had been with close friends I imagine the whole situation might have been different.

My grudge against the film, like most grudges, is selfish and unreasonable of course, not something I'd want to rationalise.

[Mr_Simnock]

I seem to have a complicated and pretty rare degenerative medical condition

I always thought you were a complete degenerate, now proven right

[Jockice]

I always thought you were a complete degenerate, now proven right

Ooh, you don't know the half of it...

[bgmnts]

I agree with a lot of this. Life of Brian is really very conventional comedy, in that it's essentially satire, while Holy Grail is much stranger, more absurd and closer to the bone in a similar way that Chris Morris could be. The satire in Brian is very good, but that's all it is. Brian really doesn't feel much like a distinctively Python film in the manner of the TV series, which was beyond the level of satire.

I admit I have a grudge against Life of Brian though because many years ago I watched it with a group of people including someone with quite severe cerebral palsy, and we sat through the Biggus Dickus scene in anxiety and crucified embarrassment wondering how she felt watching someone with a speech impediment (not nearly as strong as hers) being made fun of like that. None of us could enjoy the rest of the film after that.

It's hard to say the bit with the random Aliens in a UFO is conventional satire. Seems pretty off the wall.

[Revelator]

Meaning of Life for me; which is probably the last of the three main ones I seen. Mainly 'cos I am a contrarion fucker and I love the multitude of musical numbers. Holy Grail above Life of Brian then.

Same here regarding MOL. Last one I saw, and their best film in my view. It's a bitter version of The Flying Circus ported over into the 80s and perhaps the purest vision of Python outside of the TV show. Grail and Brian are neck and neck, and such different movies that it's hard to pick one over the other, since they have vastly different objectives.

[Pauline Walnuts]

Also Life of Brian is all sandy. Yuck.

I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.