Poll

Who did you vote for in the Euro elections

Tories
5 (2%)
Labour
90 (36.4%)
Change UK
5 (2%)
Green
49 (19.8%)
SNP
18 (7.3%)
Plaid Cymru
9 (3.6%)
Lib Dems
22 (8.9%)
UKIP
5 (2%)
Fascist Party
12 (4.9%)
Other party (UK)
2 (0.8%)
Other party (Other EU country)
4 (1.6%)
I can't vote
3 (1.2%)
DUP
0 (0%)
SF
1 (0.4%)
SDLP
0 (0%)
UUP
1 (0.4%)
I wouldn't vote
12 (4.9%)
That bloke who pulls himself off next to the Aldi on Smithdown Road
9 (3.6%)

Total Members Voted: 247

Author Topic: Euro Election 2019  (Read 63201 times)

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #150 on: April 30, 2019, 08:59:50 AM »
Quote
. Again, not taking lectures from people whose actions directly enable actual far right parties

I'm not sure you can understand what "directly" actually means, or that's quite a serious accusation. Either way you should justify it immediately or withdraw it.

Not sure you're in the glass pane free zone yourself given you are about to actually fucking vote for one in the Euro Elections. Not even racial conflict in the UK matters more to you than this, it appears. Surely your last defenders can't even be arsed trying to back you on that one.

Paul Calf

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #151 on: April 30, 2019, 09:10:25 AM »
I'm not sure you can understand what "directly" actually means, or that's quite a serious accusation. Either way you should justify it immediately or withdraw it.

I can field this one - he's deflecting, words mean nothing except to serve as as shields or sceptres and it's just another example of the putrid, self-promoting shite that flows from the titbo account these days.

Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #152 on: April 30, 2019, 09:11:09 AM »
Again, not taking lectures from people whose actions directly enable actual far right parties.


Says the man voting for Farage and then conveniently ignoring why him thinking it is an irrelevant vote doesn't mean everyone else will.

Go on, do the one about him living in our brain, or the one about hollowed out politics. Or the one that shows any form of independent thought rather than just spouting off cobbled together soundbites you got off reddit. Actually, scrap that last one, it is a unicorn policy <wink>

NoSleep

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #153 on: April 30, 2019, 09:23:59 AM »
Polling card arrived today.

biggytitbo

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #154 on: April 30, 2019, 10:33:37 AM »
Says the man voting for Farage and then conveniently ignoring why him thinking it is an irrelevant vote doesn't mean everyone else will.

Go on, do the one about him living in our brain, or the one about hollowed out politics. Or the one that shows any form of independent thought rather than just spouting off cobbled together soundbites you got off reddit. Actually, scrap that last one, it is a unicorn policy <wink>

It's a single issue protest vote in a meaningless election that is only occurring because of the total failure of our main parties to implement what they promised. As I say, I'm taking no lectures from people who support the EU on this - with its contempt for democracy, Thatcherite neoliberalism causing crippling structural inequality, forced austerity and mass unemployment, its support for concentration camps, border walls and an army of border police, all those drowned migrants in the med.

The EU has directly led to the far right throughout Europe - this is what you support so own it and stop blaming others:



And if there's anything absolutely guaranteed to lead to the rise of the far right here it's frustrating the biggest democratic vote in our history - you are creating the very vacuum which the far right, who were all but snuffed out in 2016, will exploit. Leaving the EU is not a left or right project, or any specific outcome, it is about democratic renewal and becoming an independent country where what direction we choose to go in is decided by a functioning democratic system where our elected representatives are forced to face the electorate and be accountable for the kind of big issues they have been hiding behind the EU from for 30 years.

Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #155 on: April 30, 2019, 10:39:29 AM »
The EU has directly led to the far right throughout Europe - this is what you support so own it and stop blaming others:

Where's the evidence that it's the EU that has directly led to the far right?  I don't see any.  Just seems to be a general thing throughout the world to me.

Cuellar

  • Taxes, they'll be lower...son
Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #156 on: April 30, 2019, 10:40:53 AM »
I think something else that will guarantee the rise of the far right is people voting for them.

Buelligan

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #157 on: April 30, 2019, 10:42:41 AM »
And openly lying about stuff.  It's just bullshit.

biggytitbo

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #158 on: April 30, 2019, 10:46:07 AM »
Where's the evidence that it's the EU that has directly led to the far right?  I don't see any.  Just seems to be a general thing throughout the world to me.


The EU is the suffocating political and economic system those countries use - there may well be a myriad of other reasons but the EU is by far the most important, especially in the Eurozone countries.

Howj Begg

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #159 on: April 30, 2019, 10:51:49 AM »
The EU encourages the rise of far right parties by... encouraging immigration and multiculturalism, which means that we should accede to the demands of the far right for ethnonationalism,  monocultures, and drastically reduced immigration in first world countries. Oh but also the EU does not encourage enough immigration by dumping immigrants in the sea. It's Schrodinger' immigration policy, and basically you can twist it any way you want, to say anything, to lie about anything, as long as the direct consequence is voting for far right parties under the pretence a fake leftwing ideal. And it also comes directly from the keyboard of a poster who complained about signs in his local high street shops being in European languages. No, we haven't forgotten. No connection between that and voting for anti-immigrant parties, I'm sure.

Say it again: Left wing consequences never ever ensue from voting right. Ever., And anyone who votes for anti-immigrant parties is no friend of mine, signed an immigrant.

Buelligan

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #160 on: April 30, 2019, 10:54:13 AM »
And the best you can say about Nigel Farage is he's a con man making himself rich, sitting on his privileged arse in a bar, sucking the blood of the poor, lying to them and making the world, a world they have to navigate without the oil of wealth, a harder, more dangerous place.

Cuellar

  • Taxes, they'll be lower...son
Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #161 on: April 30, 2019, 10:54:51 AM »
"The EU is enables the rise of the far right, so to protest this I will be voting for the far right in the EU elections"

LATER

"See, the EU is full of far right politicians"

biggytitbo

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    • theunredacted
Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #162 on: April 30, 2019, 10:54:57 AM »
I think something else that will guarantee the rise of the far right is people voting for them.


If your idea of the 'far right' is the brexit party, a single issue party made up of a coalition of people from all backgrounds and political affiliations standing at a meaningless election as a protest against the frustrating of the biggest democratic vote in history then you are a moron.

Paul Calf

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #163 on: April 30, 2019, 10:56:02 AM »

If your idea of the 'far right' is the brexit party...

Headed and owned by someone with documented Nazi sympathies.

But still, eh?

Howj Begg

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #164 on: April 30, 2019, 10:57:25 AM »
Imagine even considering voting for this piece of shit. Why, it would make you a piece of shit too.

Farage raises hackles in Oldham by saying town is split on racial lines

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/28/nigel-farage-raises-hackles-oldham-by-saying-town-split-on-racial-lines?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Quote
He is supposed to be fronting a campaign to propel his Brexit party into the European parliament. But Nigel Farage abandoned Europe at the weekend and flew to the US to give a speech where he claimed entire streets of Oldham in Greater Manchester are split along racial lines.

Addressing an audience of young libertarians at Lock Haven University in Pennsylvania, Farage said Oldham was a “divided society”.

He told the Young America’s Foundation: “I could take you to a town called Oldham in the north of England where literally on one side of the street everybody is white and on the other side of the street everybody is black. The twain never actually meet, there is no assimilation. Whole streets in Oldham of people who have lived in my country for over 30 years who don’t speak a word of the English language. These, folks, are divided societies in which resentments build and grow.”


You are voting for an overt far right racist fascist. You are using your vote for this. You are encouraging the use of this language and these povs. No excuses. You are voting far right.

Cuellar

  • Taxes, they'll be lower...son
Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #165 on: April 30, 2019, 11:02:03 AM »

If your idea of the 'far right' is the brexit party, a single issue party made up of a coalition of people from all backgrounds and political affiliations standing at a meaningless election as a protest against the frustrating of the biggest democratic vote in history then you are a moron.

I think that if you vote for the far right while claiming to want to prevent the rise of the far right, you are either a moron, utterly confused, or disingenuous.

edit: actually to be fair you've never said you wanted to prevent the rise of the far right.

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #166 on: April 30, 2019, 11:04:35 AM »
The EU encourages the rise of far right parties by... encouraging immigration and multiculturalism...

Enforced with a 1000 miles of Trump style border walls - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-border-wall-berlin-migration-human-rights-immigration-borders-a8624706.html
A deal with Erdogan - https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/eu-hands-erdogans-regime-%C2%A31.2bn-as-part-of-its-shameful-refugee-deal
Concentration camps in Libya - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/05/eu-deal-libya-refugees-libyan-detention-centres
A vast new border force - https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1118821868562202625
30,000 deaths of African migrants - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/20/the-list-europe-migrant-bodycount

All so its a bit easier for Lord Adonis to go skiing and rich countries to gut poorer EU nation's health services.

Buelligan

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #167 on: April 30, 2019, 11:06:39 AM »
And your contribution to helping all of that is what?  Working for Murdoch and voting for Farage. 

Howj Begg

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #168 on: April 30, 2019, 11:09:05 AM »
deflection

All so you can vote for a far right party that, in common with other European far right parties, wants to limit immigration even more severely to build nationalist ethonstates that won't accept people from neighbouring countries, let alone from the middle east.

Pathetic and transparent.

And of course, you will happily dismiss Paul Mason's internationalist project of remain and reform so that you can vote for far right racist parties.

Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #169 on: April 30, 2019, 11:14:02 AM »
The EU is the suffocating political and economic system those countries use - there may well be a myriad of other reasons but the EU is by far the most important, especially in the Eurozone countries.

I think this really needs a [citation needed].  Maybe it suits your narrative to say that, but that doesn't make it true.

For example, the rise of VOX in Spain has little to do with the EU, but is largely due to their strong stance against Catalan or Basque separatism, something which the socialist parties are perceived as being weak on.  And because they're the natural party for racists, chauvinists, religious zealots and other ultra-conservatives, who until recently have not had an outlet for their ghastly views.

Spain has thrived in the EU and remains one of its biggest supporters.  And they're net recipients, so why wouldn't they be?

biggytitbo

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    • theunredacted
Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #170 on: April 30, 2019, 11:35:21 AM »
Yes, Catalonia is a big reason for Vox's popularity, that is true. You conveniently airbrush out the main reason for their popularity though - Spain's crisis of youth unemployment, and if you're going to argue that the political, economic and fiscal system they have chosen to adopt - the EU, has nothing to do with that you are beyond reasoning.

----

Despite the fact Change UK's one and only policy is to stop brexit, most people have no idea what Change UK's position on brexit is -



Another triumph for the political geniuses that run that party.



Paul Calf

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #171 on: April 30, 2019, 11:40:05 AM »
Yes, Catalonia is a big reason for Vox's popularity, that is true. You conveniently airbrush out the main reason for their popularity though - Spain's crisis of youth unemployment, and if you're going to argue that the political, economic and fiscal system they have chosen to adopt - the EU, has nothing to do with that you are beyond reasoning.




This is a huge far right trope - pointing out Spain's (undeniable) youth unemployment problem without comparing it to what Spain was just a few decades ago.

What was Spain like before its entry to the EU? Do you think Spanish people long to return to the days of fascist dictatorship, leprosy and limbless beggars?

biggytitbo

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #172 on: April 30, 2019, 11:55:27 AM »
This is a huge far right trope - pointing out Spain's (undeniable) youth unemployment problem without comparing it to what Spain was just a few decades ago.

What was Spain like before its entry to the EU? Do you think Spanish people long to return to the days of fascist dictatorship, leprosy and limbless beggars?


Everything's a huge far right trope in your mad world. Pointing out facts is a huge far right trope. Having a sandwich is a huge far right trope. Spain's youth unemployment and other economic problems have a variety of different causes but its the fact they are in the suffocating economic straitjacket of the EU and the euro that has stubbornly prevented them from properly addressing them. Ditto Greece and the other southern states.


Greece is a good example though isn't it. I support the EU but I don't agree with what they did in Greece. I support the EU but I don't agree with concentration camps in Libya. I support the EU but I don't agree with Guy Verhofstadt's plans for a federal europe.


But if you support a single issue protest party in a meaningless election you apparently must support all the beliefs of its leader.

Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #173 on: April 30, 2019, 12:03:04 PM »
This is a huge far right trope - pointing out Spain's (undeniable) youth unemployment problem without comparing it to what Spain was just a few decades ago.

What was Spain like before its entry to the EU? Do you think Spanish people long to return to the days of fascist dictatorship, leprosy and limbless beggars?

Exactly.  Unemployment is a real problem, but not one which can be attributed largely to the EU (although the ability to set monetary policy during the financial crisis would have helped some of the worst problems; I don't pretend to defend the Euro here).  Spain has underspent on education for decades, Rajoy's changes to employment regulations left individuals with fewer rights and less job security, and the seasonal nature of its main industry - tourism - means that many jobs are temporary.  Also the cost of being self-employed here is prohibitive for many, and staff costs to businesses are also huge, with very few subsidies or incentives available for small businesses to get started.  This is all domestic policy, nothing to do with the EU, but goes some way to explain why the supply of jobs doesn't match the demand. 

Anyway, my view is that the vote for VOX has been mostly the racist and nationalist vote, and there's a lot of ignorance at play too.  For example, the recent Andalucia local government (a right-wing coalition of PP, C's and VOX) recently announced tax breaks worth 3% to the highest earners (those earning 90000€ or more).  Cue indignation, as public services suffer.  Oh, but isn't that what you voted for?

Zetetic

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #174 on: April 30, 2019, 12:07:10 PM »
Of course, if you do think that the Euro is a bad idea (and the restrictions on deficit spending and the like), you probably shouldn't advocate for Brexit.

Buelligan

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #175 on: April 30, 2019, 12:09:58 PM »
And it's not all hell, you know, FoM means Spanish people can hop over the border and do what they will and people in the EU can go the other way to set up businesses, which generate employment.  I have some friends (three fucking mad chefs and a front of house fellow) who are busy starting up and hiring staff (on a shoestring) in Seville at this very moment.

Zetetic

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #176 on: April 30, 2019, 12:14:31 PM »
A bit of a tangent, but we could have an interesting conversation about whether the 'safety valve' of youth migration is ultimately deleterious to the health of national politics (see Yugoslavia until the early 80s?). We might consider internal migration in the UK (away from Wales, the English regions, towards London) along similar lines.

We won't though.



Have Labour made any statement on why they supported the copyright shitshow?
Or are you stuck with SNP/Plaid/Green if this is an issue for you?

Buelligan

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #177 on: April 30, 2019, 12:17:18 PM »
My friends are all youths so I expect you're correct, they would be deleterious to the social equilibrium of any country they entered, except, perhaps, Belgium.

Zetetic

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #178 on: April 30, 2019, 12:20:08 PM »
I suspect you're having a joke at poor doddering Zetetic's expense, but I meant that youth migration means that national (or local) politics is dominated by those left behind - the old, conservative and without marketable labour in emptying towns.

Buelligan

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #179 on: April 30, 2019, 12:25:36 PM »
No, I was just laughing about the wickedness of my own friends but I do agree, where any subset leaves a group and is not replaced, it will obviously have problematic effects, you're quite right and don't noticeably dodder either fwiw.

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