Poll

Who did you vote for in the Euro elections

Tories
5 (2%)
Labour
90 (36.4%)
Change UK
5 (2%)
Green
49 (19.8%)
SNP
18 (7.3%)
Plaid Cymru
9 (3.6%)
Lib Dems
22 (8.9%)
UKIP
5 (2%)
Fascist Party
12 (4.9%)
Other party (UK)
2 (0.8%)
Other party (Other EU country)
4 (1.6%)
I can't vote
3 (1.2%)
DUP
0 (0%)
SF
1 (0.4%)
SDLP
0 (0%)
UUP
1 (0.4%)
I wouldn't vote
12 (4.9%)
That bloke who pulls himself off next to the Aldi on Smithdown Road
9 (3.6%)

Total Members Voted: 247

Author Topic: Euro Election 2019  (Read 86246 times)

biggytitbo

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #180 on: April 30, 2019, 01:04:03 PM »
I suspect you're having a joke at poor doddering Zetetic's expense, but I meant that youth migration means that national (or local) politics is dominated by those left behind - the old, conservative and without marketable labour in emptying towns.

Or Romania, Bulgaria etc having no health service left because the UK, France and Germany stole all their doctors and nurses via FOM?

Fambo Number Mive

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #181 on: April 30, 2019, 01:05:06 PM »
How did they steal them? If I apply for a job in the USA and get offered the job and receive a green card and visa, has the USA "stolen" me?


biggytitbo

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #182 on: April 30, 2019, 01:07:50 PM »
How did they steal them? If I apply for a job in the USA and get offered the job and receive a green card and visa, has the USA "stolen" me?

Ahh OK, so we don't need freedom of movement then? That's sorted that out, wondered what all the fuss was about.

Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #183 on: April 30, 2019, 01:09:31 PM »
Yeah, because with freedom of movement, they can just keep coming over and filling an infinite number of jobs.

Howj Begg

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #184 on: April 30, 2019, 01:13:40 PM »
Another far right talking point. "Are jobs bein stolen by foreigners" repurposed as fake concern for foreigners.

Buelligan

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #185 on: April 30, 2019, 01:14:04 PM »
Ahh OK, so we don't need freedom of movement then? That's sorted that out, wondered what all the fuss was about.

The visa system, primarily, makes it easy for privileged people to move countries.  If you have good qualifications, no black marks against your name for thought-crime, if you're the right colour or race, if you're young and healthy, educated, yeah, we'll take all of those out of your society. 

FoM means any citizen can choose where they live and work, who they marry, where their families grow up.

One system treats people like commodities, the other gives them all equal rights.

Buelligan

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #186 on: April 30, 2019, 01:21:43 PM »
Or Romania, Bulgaria etc having no health service left because the UK, France and Germany stole all their doctors and nurses via FOM?

The obvious answer to this is to make one currency and offer the same rights, working conditions and salaries to people across the United States of Europe.  Fixed at a stroke.

Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #187 on: April 30, 2019, 01:22:14 PM »
The visa system, primarily, makes it easy for privileged people to move countries.  If you have good qualifications, no black marks against your name for thought-crime, if you're the right colour or race, if you're young and healthy, educated, yeah, we'll take all of those out of your society. 

FoM means any citizen can choose where they live and work, who they marry, where their families grow up.

That's right.  Even you, biggy, could dare to step outside your town, and go and seek wonderful new opportunities elsewhere in the EU.  You might even find it enlightening and enriching.

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #188 on: April 30, 2019, 01:28:28 PM »
Another far right talking point. "Are jobs bein stolen by foreigners" repurposed as fake concern for foreigners.

I'm sure biggytitbos of the Brexits is entirely sincere in his wishes that Bulgaria's best and brightest doctors and nurses stay in Bulgaria to ensure the success of their mandatory-insurance healthcare service that leaves people dependent on employer contributions.

(Doctors and nurses are fleeing Bulgaria and Romania en masse because of massive defunding and privatisation of their national health service)

Buelligan

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #189 on: April 30, 2019, 01:33:25 PM »
I'm sure biggytitbos of the Brexits is entirely sincere in his wishes that Bulgaria's best and brightest doctors and nurses stay in Bulgaria to ensure the success of their mandatory-insurance healthcare service that leaves people dependent on employer contributions.

Yeah, Romania's similar, the service, although universal, is only open to people with valid paid up insurance cards, everyone else just gets emergency care. 

Imagine, if you will, Britain discussing the NHS and how that provision could be strengthened and rolled out across the whole EU.  Imagine, our Premier, Jeremy Corbyn, addressing the EU and convincing them to do this.  Now remember good old reality.  What's better?

Jumblegraws

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #190 on: April 30, 2019, 01:38:07 PM »
Or Romania, Bulgaria etc having no health service left because the UK, France and Germany stole all their doctors and nurses via FOM?
The cherrypicked source you claimed proved this was happening actually a) cited sources that explicitly said FoM was but one factor in medical braindrains and b) alluded to the trend reversing and cited sources that presented that fact more unequivocally. I’m sure people from the countries you’re so concerned about appreciate your implication that they live in sickness-ridden hellscapes.


Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #191 on: April 30, 2019, 02:05:25 PM »
Despite the fact Change UK's one and only policy is to stop brexit, most people have no idea what Change UK's position on brexit is -



Another triumph for the political geniuses that run that party.

The curious thing abut that chart is the 3% of people who think the Brexit party is anti-Brexit.

Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #192 on: April 30, 2019, 02:40:48 PM »
The curious thing abut that chart is the 3% of people who think the Brexit party is anti-Brexit.

It, ironically, kind of is. Farage doesn't care about delivering Brexit. He cares about creating a betrayal narrative that he can use to springboard himself into power.

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #193 on: April 30, 2019, 03:01:34 PM »
The interesting thing is how similarly Labour and Tories score on the option "Neither"

But it does show that Labour's tactic of slow, slow gravitation to Remain led by events and public mood, NOT shrill Soubry types, hasn't resulted in that much more ambiguity and at much less loss of political capital than the Tories have suffered.

That is a graph for Labour's strategists to feel quietly pleased about.

The huge amount of "Dont Knows" sums up the "Get on with it" crowd who are apolitical and think/delude themselves into thinking politics is just administration and about 'getting round the table'.

biggytitbo

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #194 on: April 30, 2019, 04:54:09 PM »
This is more amazing than the brexit party winning nationally

Quote
London European Parliament voting intention:

Lab: 28% (-9)
BREX: 19%(+19)
CHUK: 17% (+17)
CON: 11% (-11)
GRN: 10% (+1)
LDEM: 10% (+3)

via @YouGov
Chgs. w/ 2014

Labour losing almost as much support as Tories. But from who?


Buelligan

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #195 on: April 30, 2019, 04:57:10 PM »
Idiots I'm thinking.  Must be.

Talking of such, what'd you think about the old visa system eh, versus FoM? 

biggytitbo

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #196 on: April 30, 2019, 05:10:35 PM »
Now Corbyn has won his battle with Twat about keeping Labour's 2nd ref position ambiguous, does that help or hinder them? They might lose more to CHUK, if people finally figure out what they stand for, but less to Brexit.

Buelligan

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #197 on: April 30, 2019, 05:15:19 PM »
Is this voting in the election that you're planning to vote for Farage in or something else?

biggytitbo

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #198 on: April 30, 2019, 05:15:41 PM »
It, ironically, kind of is. Farage doesn't care about delivering Brexit. He cares about creating a betrayal narrative that he can use to springboard himself into power.

Farage isnt the government, this isnt a general election, we aren't voting on his manifesto, he has no more power to deliver brexit than postman pat. After 3 years of been lectured about low information voters it's amazing how many people can't comprehend the differences between different types of public votes.

Zetetic

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #199 on: April 30, 2019, 05:36:57 PM »
Or Romania, Bulgaria etc having no health service left because the UK, France and Germany stole all their doctors and nurses via FOM?
Or Wales or NE England if you like.
Or Carmarthen and Bangor if you prefer.

After Brexit, we will still seek to draw skilled labour away from less economically developed places. It's just that this will be ever more a matter of privilege on the basis of some kind of merit rather than a common right.

Perhaps rather than serfdom, we should look to investment, free education and linking capacity to need.

Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #200 on: April 30, 2019, 05:38:45 PM »
Farage isnt the government, this isnt a general election, we aren't voting on his manifesto, he has no more power to deliver brexit than postman pat. After 3 years of been lectured about low information voters it's amazing how many people can't comprehend the differences between different types of public votes.

Thing is literally nobody has the power to deliver brexit because brexit doesn't really exist it's just whatever anyone imagines it to be - Mays shitty deal probably is as close to what the majority of people that voted for wanted (stop immigration) but that's not good enough for Farage and the like because it's in his own interests to always proclaim any agreed brexit deal not "real" brexit. So he's now successfully got all those same people worked up about being betrayed. This is why brexit probably won't happen in the end - ironic that Farage and the ERG maniacs will be the ones to kill it and it will be their fault (along with the Tory party in general for making the mistake of never defining what brexit was at the time of the referendum) but they won't care of course because it doesn't really benefit them for brexit to happen.

biggytitbo

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #201 on: April 30, 2019, 06:16:26 PM »
Is this voting in the election that you're planning to vote for Farage in or something else?


Very disappointed to see the candidate in my area isn't awful enough, some bloke called James heartfield who appears to be an anti-war, anti-imperialist writer. Will have to grit my teeth.

biggytitbo

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #202 on: April 30, 2019, 06:22:14 PM »
Thing is literally nobody has the power to deliver brexit because brexit doesn't really exist it's just whatever anyone imagines it to be - Mays shitty deal probably is as close to what the majority of people that voted for wanted (stop immigration) but that's not good enough for Farage and the like because it's in his own interests to always proclaim any agreed brexit deal not "real" brexit. So he's now successfully got all those same people worked up about being betrayed. This is why brexit probably won't happen in the end - ironic that Farage and the ERG maniacs will be the ones to kill it and it will be their fault (along with the Tory party in general for making the mistake of never defining what brexit was at the time of the referendum) but they won't care of course because it doesn't really benefit them for brexit to happen.

There are only 3 things in the withdrawal agreement - the thing where we actually leave the EU:

- Meet our financial obligations
- Protect citizen rights
- Maintain the good friday agreement.

Everything else will be decided by the normal process of democratic politics over the next few years.


Which bits do you disagree with?

Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #203 on: April 30, 2019, 06:34:19 PM »
There are only 3 things in the withdrawal agreement - the thing where we actually leave the EU:

- Meet our financial obligations
- Protect citizen rights
- Maintain the good friday agreement.

Everything else will be decided by the normal process of democratic politics over the next few years.


Which bits do you disagree with?

I'm not talking about whether I disagree with it I'm saying your man Farage disagrees with it and now a majority of people that voted for brexit disagree with it. There is therefore no way now off fulfilling brexit that will satisfy a majority of the population. So what do we do now?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 07:16:28 PM by Armin Meiwes »

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #204 on: April 30, 2019, 07:33:37 PM »
.

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #205 on: April 30, 2019, 08:23:15 PM »
Edit:  never mind this.

chveik

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #206 on: April 30, 2019, 08:39:20 PM »
overwhelmed by the honk of errands far right shite in this thread?

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #207 on: April 30, 2019, 08:42:41 PM »
This is more amazing than the brexit party winning nationally

Labour losing almost as much support as Tories. But from who?

"London European Parliament Elections'

In London.

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Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #208 on: April 30, 2019, 08:45:39 PM »
overwhelmed by the honk of errands far right shite in this thread?

Biggys "everything is far right to you" retort fails to realise that things that are actually far right are enclosed within that, one of them being voting for a far right party led by a far right politician who just stirred up racial disharmony increasing the chance of violence and factionalism.

For everyone else here we just say "no it would be unconscionable to vote for such a party".

Re: Euro Election 2019
« Reply #209 on: May 01, 2019, 10:56:47 AM »
I'm not talking about whether I disagree with it I'm saying your man Farage disagrees with it and now a majority of people that voted for brexit disagree with it. There is therefore no way now off fulfilling brexit that will satisfy a majority of the population. So what do we do now?

Funny how titbo never came back on this, none of them ever do because under even the tiniest bit of scrutiny their arguments always fall apart.

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