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Euro Election 2019

Started by NoSleep, April 18, 2019, 08:46:36 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Who did you vote for in the Euro elections

Tories
5 (2%)
Labour
90 (36.4%)
Change UK
5 (2%)
Green
49 (19.8%)
SNP
18 (7.3%)
Plaid Cymru
9 (3.6%)
Lib Dems
22 (8.9%)
UKIP
5 (2%)
Fascist Party
12 (4.9%)
Other party (UK)
2 (0.8%)
Other party (Other EU country)
4 (1.6%)
I can't vote
3 (1.2%)
DUP
0 (0%)
SF
1 (0.4%)
SDLP
0 (0%)
UUP
1 (0.4%)
I wouldn't vote
12 (4.9%)
That bloke who pulls himself off next to the Aldi on Smithdown Road
9 (3.6%)

Total Members Voted: 247

biggytitbo

Quote from: jobotic on May 29, 2019, 12:33:44 PM
That's because I'm mentally ill.

You don't see the far-right when they're threatening Jews in Charlottesville so shut the fuck up.


No I didn't, I was pointing out how easily people like you are manipulated and have their views distorted by the media.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

QuoteThey exist as reports of what Brexit Party activists have been doing have proven, and what Brexit Party candidates have said and done. That's before you get into UKIP, 500,000 votes, and before you get into the splinter groups...

The atmosphere they have created of intolerance manifests everywhere like through the town centre today when a fat old woman with a mean face started shouting at some Muslims who walked past her. Anyone who thinks they can get away with that is getting her enabling from somewhere.

The media^

Unlike biggy who consumes info from elsewhere yet because it's not mainstream thinks he's impervious to it.

Dr Rock

I will say it's a good sign Tomi Robason got nowhere. He does have his fans, and for all his whining about not being able to use social media (except YouTube where he had plenty of help from Rebel Media and some arsehole from Australia amongst others ie Carl Benjamin supported him standing before standing himself), I'm sure he's well known enough that most people in his area knew he was on the ballot box. Perhaps his potential voters were too diluted by the area he needed to win, the entire North West, which has a population of about a million or a thousand or something. I'd have worried he might've had enough casual support from Islamophobes and people who think he's not even racist just a hard done by paedo ring smasher, that might've over-ridden their desire to do a protest vote for Brexit or stay at home being thick. He must've imagined better than 2%.

Buelligan

Quote from: biggytitbo on May 29, 2019, 12:42:08 PM

No I didn't, I was pointing out how easily people like you are manipulated and have their views distorted by the media.

What a crock of bollocks bigs.  Take Steve Bannon opening his monastery in Italy as a place where far right activists can learn to cunt the planet. 

Whether an alumni exists (or will ever exist) is pretty unimportant.  What's important is that it's spreading a message, that's why it's been made so public, emboldening racists and evil-minded fascists everywhere to imagine they are in the ascendant.  Like Shoulders's example, encouraging completely unacceptable public behaviour. 

And that's something that you deny, you constantly downplay the influence and the evil intent of people like Farage (why no longer Faragee, bigs?) and Bannon because you know, right now, they are vulnerable. 

These people need stopping now and every person supporting or excusing them needs calling out.

biggytitbo

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 29, 2019, 12:35:11 PM
They exist as reports of what Brexit Party activists have been doing have proven, and what Brexit Party candidates have said and done. That's before you get into UKIP, 500,000 votes, and before you get into the splinter groups...


They're a mixture of disgruntled tories, pro-business centrists and a smattering of old school leftists. And they're all going to go away once the referendum result is implemented. If that's the 'rise of the far right' in your world then you are a moron who needs to get out more.


QuoteThe atmosphere they have created of intolerance manifests everywhere like through the town centre today when a fat old woman with a mean face started shouting at some Muslims who walked past her. Anyone who thinks they can get away with that is getting her enabling from somewhere.


Nope, the brexit party didn't do that, our mainstream media, political and economic establishment did that and you full well know it. Farage and the Brexit party are a creature of the void, the consequences of trying to cancel a major democratic vote which is itself a consequence of the chasmic gulf that has developed between the professional political classes and the people they claim to represent, but don't.


And the Brexit party as it exists right now is the pressure valve stopping this implosion of the established political order manifesting itself as something as nasty and 'far right' as they have on the continent, and we should be thankful for it. But its no kind of solution to anything other than to try and stop the main parties cancelling our votes. We need to heed the wider warning right now and do something about this void we (parliament, tory, labour, the media, the EU et al), not Farage, have created, before that pressure valve manifests itself somewhere else.


And that might not even be a populist like Farage, or the 'far right', it could be the fracturing of politics and the mass disengagement of the electorate, or a permanent monkey on our backs that never goes away and stops us ever moving on to any other issues.


To put it more succinctly - just leave the fucking EU so we can move on.

Paul Calf

Quote from: biggytitbo on May 29, 2019, 12:32:08 PM

They don't exist here, they got wiped out at the election. You'll naturally maintain the brexit party, a single issue pressure group that will disband itself as soon as we've left the EU, is literally Hitler as well, but then you see the rise of the far right when you look in the bog after a poo.

I see the far right when it's marching through English villages singing songs about gassing Jews and standing in front of repurposed Nazi propaganda posters on national TV.

If you don't, I think that's a failing on your part, not on mine.

Buelligan

Why do you no longer call him "Faragee" btw, bigs?

Fambo Number Mive

Quote from: sponk on May 28, 2019, 03:18:38 PM
I'll save that and show it to anyone who says we live in a plutocracy where elections can be bought by the rich.

It doesn't show that Change UK spent the most on the election, only that they spent the most on Facebook ads.

Replies From View

Quote from: idunnosomename on May 28, 2019, 11:50:13 PM
Funny how that cunt stopped posting after the election results. Was he just sticking his posts on a timesheet to send to The Brexit Party?

This, by the way, is exactly what I said would happen while it was going on.  It's advertising.

Buelligan

I remember you saying it and I thought it an interesting observation.  But to what possible end?

Anyone reading this, anyone at all whose mind was changed on who to vote for by reading those posts?  If so, please just send an anonymous beep or something to register his success.  Thank you in advance.

imitationleather

It purposefully stifles discussion. I read other (football-related) forums where there's a far greater plurality of opinions with regards to politics, and funnily enough they don't get people coming in and disrupting threads whenever there's an election.

jobotic

Leftists voted Farage?

Of course they did. The Lexiters I know take on filth like him they don't vote for him.

ajsmith2

Do you think that this forum actually registers on the shit lists of certain far right circles as a prominent left wing discussion hive to be infiltrated and jammed to cause dissent at such times, or am I flattering ourselves?

Howj Begg

Quote from: ajsmith2 on May 29, 2019, 03:37:18 PM
Do you think that this forum actually registers on the shit lists of certain far right circles as a prominent left wing discussion hive to be infiltrated and jammed to cause dissent at such times, or am I flattering ourselves?

The DSMO diaspora definitely exists, and they definitely coordinate troll efforts from time to time, yeah.

Buelligan

Quote from: ajsmith2 on May 29, 2019, 03:37:18 PM
Do you think that this forum actually registers on the shit lists of certain far right circles as a prominent left wing discussion hive to be infiltrated and jammed to cause dissent at such times, or am I flattering ourselves?

I don't think so.  Personally, I think it's far more likely - especially given the similarity between this last one and several predecessors - that it's just one oddball.  I think maybe, immi has the rights of it as far as motivation goes though, I hadn't thought about that.

ETA  Although, Howj probably has a point, I hadn't thought of that either.  Very weird though, isn't it?  What does one get from it, is it pleasant to feel like you've upset a lot of people?  Weird as fuck.

Ferris

It was all a bit mad, but he was easy enough to ignore.

Mr_Simnock

I found him fun, watching certain folk respond to him is like watching this gif


sponk

Quote from: jobotic on May 29, 2019, 03:36:53 PM
Leftists voted Farage?

Of course they did. The Lexiters I know take on filth like him they don't vote for him.

Galloway voted for TBP and many of his followers on Twitter did the same

Buelligan

Quote from: Mr_Simnock on May 29, 2019, 04:23:53 PM
I found him fun, watching certain folk respond to him is like watching this gif



I understand where you're coming from but gifs like that, you know, for me anyway, they're a one watch sort of fun.  I think I said something similar at the time.

I'm not entirely surprised to learn that you're one that can watch it again and again.

Mr_Simnock

Have you always had me down as one of those 'likes to watch cat gif repeatedly' types?

Buelligan

I've never considered it.

Head Gardener


Shoulders?-Stomach!

Quote from: Replies From View on May 29, 2019, 03:25:35 PM
This, by the way, is exactly what I said would happen while it was going on.  It's advertising.

Yes but we can just put everyone on ignore!

imitationleather


mothman


hummingofevil

Quote from: biggytitbo on May 29, 2019, 01:08:29 PM

They're a mixture of disgruntled tories, pro-business centrists and a smattering of old school leftists. And they're all going to go away once the referendum result is implemented. If that's the 'rise of the far right' in your world then you are a moron who needs to get out more.



Nope, the brexit party didn't do that, our mainstream media, political and economic establishment did that and you full well know it. Farage and the Brexit party are a creature of the void, the consequences of trying to cancel a major democratic vote which is itself a consequence of the chasmic gulf that has developed between the professional political classes and the people they claim to represent, but don't.


And the Brexit party as it exists right now is the pressure valve stopping this implosion of the established political order manifesting itself as something as nasty and 'far right' as they have on the continent, and we should be thankful for it. But its no kind of solution to anything other than to try and stop the main parties cancelling our votes. We need to heed the wider warning right now and do something about this void we (parliament, tory, labour, the media, the EU et al), not Farage, have created, before that pressure valve manifests itself somewhere else.


And that might not even be a populist like Farage, or the 'far right', it could be the fracturing of politics and the mass disengagement of the electorate, or a permanent monkey on our backs that never goes away and stops us ever moving on to any other issues.


To put it more succinctly - just leave the fucking EU so we can move on.

I have to admit that I have started to appreciate you point. I am not saying I agree with you or even think that you are correct but I think I am starting to understand the basis of your argument. I posted on here earlier about how similar my mother-in-law's views are to your own and we had a long chat a couple of days ago.

Her broader point was regardless of the rights and wrongs of Brexit, a Brexit vote happened and the people voted to leave. As she explained to me she has spent her whole life seeing elections where the Tories scrape in by 4% hère or there and as much as she hated the fact it was something she had to accept and hope it didn't happen the next time (and it usually did).

Her point was that for the majority of her life (and the entirety of mine) political power has been held by an ever revolving group of centrist, centre-right political class politicians who serve only the interests of the ruling classes, big business a neo-liberal agenda led by America's total domination as
a global bully and themselves.

Her point was the moment that group of people held a referendum that didn't go their way then, in her view, it was all hands to the pump from a coalition of self interests from Juncker to Blair to Cameron to Tom Watson who were determined to stop this happening at all costs.

Her point, when challenged about the fact that Farage is a Thatcherite or it has enabled the far-right or that it has led to instability in Northern Ireland is that Blair and Cameron are Thatcherites, we were all in denial about racism existing before all this (pointing to examples of our own family who have always been racist as proof) and how she finds it difficult to be lectured on any of this from likes of Cameron, Blair et al. who have the blood of hundreds of thousands of brown people on their hands. Never mind good people on both sides, the debate suddenly looks a lot more nuanced when there are genocidal war mongers on both sides; every time Alistair Campbell speaks about Brexit she simply cannot countenance the fact that she is wrong about wanting to leave. She sees the cult of personality in remainers towards likes of Campbell and Blair that we see in Farage. If it's two sides of the same coin why not flip it and take your chances.

Now where this gets weird is when we think about Theresea May's deal and the point of The Brexit Party. If one had happened would the other have existed? I don't really know tbh but whilst in my mind the whole reason why there has been a "Brexit betrayel" and we have "not left yet" is the fault of ERG lot, goaded by an even more economically far-right agenda (and/or Bannon-esq dark forces) it is not unreasonable to appreciate that there is also a group of Leavers who feel let down by the Labour Party, who they previously supported for repeatedly not backing the deal. The narrative that there are those in Labour who would not vote for a deal regardless of the contexts of any deal is not without merit. It's just that maybe those of us who have been so wrapped up that this is some far-right masterplan have not stopped long enough to listen.

Now of course where the truth lies is yet to be seen and one thing that is certain is that if there wasn't a void in politics for rightist populism to occupy before the utterly shambolic handling of Brexit by this government has created one now. But maybe the real issue is not to stop Brexit at all cost but how to  implement a compromise deal that all sides can sign up to. Some would argue that is what Theresa May was trying to do over the last two years but I won't be so generous. It is through her and her government's utter incompetence that we have reached this point and if she was our best hope it's no wonder we are doomed.

Zetetic

And what do we mean by 'compromise'?

Is there any version of this 'compromise' that retains the same rights for fellow EU citizens here and in the other member states?

Is there any version of this 'compromise' that delivers anything resembling any aspect of the Brexit campaigns or people's given reasons for voting to leave?

(And the implication of the last of these is that 'leaving the EU' will certainly not allow us to move on. The failure of leaving to deliver anything of consequence will be taken as further proof of the sabotage of the project.)

hummingofevil

What should have happened is that replacements were developed for the systems that are in place currently through membership of the EU. That Cameron didn't do it before the referendum was as incompetant as it was cowardly as he thought he had our number; for TM not to do it since is a shocking neglection of duty. It's where I agree with the No Dealers. If we had a plan in place for no deal that had started two years ago then there might have been a small chance that we were further down the line. The issue with the likes of the near £100million wasted on the ferry deal was as much to do with it's rushed last minute implementation than the principle.

I used to argue that the main reason not to vote leave was why should any of us have any faith that a Tory government could negotiate our way out of the EU. The truth is they couldn't negotiate our way in it, through it, out of it or around it. That they have been absolutely smashed for this is the ultimate irony given Cameron's motivation for calling the referendum in the first place.

As for the issues you raise of course there are huge issues moving forward. I have written on here before about the moment a certain type of Leaver realises that "taking back control of our borders" doesn't mean a one-way system where we "send the buggers back". That idea needed directly challenging and not pussy-footing around. A clear defence of immigration and a clear statement of intent moving forward that Brexit was not going to a Tory right-wing project.

That said, given that was the situation at the time (I posted earlier this week about the impact of Merkel's 1 million refugees had on the Brexit vote to no response) it does not mean that pro-active and bold politicians could not have worked night and day for the last 2 years to ensure reciprocal rights are protected and a generous and sensible immigration policy could have been proposed that, for example did not discriminate against low paid, seasonal workers, students. Even writing that makes me sound like I am "taking away the rights" of those who would benefit from FoM in future. Maybe I am; but the issue is that the impasse, the lack of political imagination and will from those on both sides have left a void that Farage has filled with his unique brand of turd.

Edit: as for your final point, I agree. I entirely agree. The most depressing thing about this whole thing is not even that a third of the country has fallen for the green-teethed charms of Mr Farage but that Mr Farage is so obviously a lazy, self-serving, contrarian who would run from actual power quicked than you can say "pint of warm John Smiths please squire". His only skill is to oppose but it really, really says something about the combined wit of our politicians that they have been so easily outmanouvered by him at ever stage.

sponk

At the end of the day we voted to leave and brexit means brexit so to be honest I think they should stop faffing about and just get on with it

hummingofevil

Quote from: sponk on May 29, 2019, 09:25:02 PM
At the end of the day we voted to leave and brexit means brexit so to be honest I think they should stop faffing about and just get on with it

If they just willed (how the fuck do you spell "willed" - looks wrong) then we would be living in Eldorado by now. :)