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March 29, 2024, 08:02:47 AM

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Years and Years (Russell T Davies)

Started by VelourSpirit, April 21, 2019, 11:46:14 PM

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Quote from: olliebean on June 18, 2019, 10:32:51 PM
Predictable, though. As soon as he smuggled the gun in I knew who would be getting shot.

Regarding the aging, looks like most of them did most of their 15 years aging during the last 5 years.

Aye, but I liked the perfunctory way it was done. Undercut it perfectly.

Alberon

Quote from: ian01604 on June 18, 2019, 10:55:20 PM
Also how come the itv newsreader and onscreen presentation didn't change in 30 years?

Austerity.

Really Simon McCoy over on the BBC should have looked more like he was reporting from The Matrix by the end.

thugler

Last episode was a mess, but still enjoyed it overall. Why did he have to sneak a gun in to kill himself? He could have done it outside surely?

Bonkers program overall.

Natnar

I liked how the "fake" Vivienne Rook in prison at the end was played by Emma Thompson's mum.

Twed

Last episode devolved into stupid third rate sci-fi. A massive shame, given how prescient the earlier episodes were. In episode 5 they had a bit about people arguing whether the camps should be called "concentration camps" or not, which is literally today: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/18/us/politics/ocasio-cortez-cheney-detention-centers.html

Not "today" in general, that's literally a new thing that happened today that this programme preempted.

sevendaughters

Quote from: thugler on June 19, 2019, 12:31:42 AM
Last episode was a mess, but still enjoyed it overall. Why did he have to sneak a gun in to kill himself? He could have done it outside surely?

He was going to send the file and then do it, I thought.

In terms of the show 'going sci-fi' in the last episode...nothing happened that wasn't flagged up already and it also ended on a note of ambiguity as to whether it even worked or not. It was a slightly jarring switch but it completely worked.

thugler

Quote from: sevendaughters on June 19, 2019, 08:40:01 AM
He was going to send the file and then do it, I thought.

In terms of the show 'going sci-fi' in the last episode...nothing happened that wasn't flagged up already and it also ended on a note of ambiguity as to whether it even worked or not. It was a slightly jarring switch but it completely worked.

It was surely just to build suspense as to who he was going to kill with it. If it's just himself it doesn't make sense going to the risk of getting it in when he can just leave and then do it.

I haven't seen much being said anywhere on the Lincoln character, who seems conspicuous in his being under-drawn and underused. I can see comedy fans hardly need telling that it's a tricky area to write about subtly, and Davies seldom even aims for subtlety; but what we do see of Lincoln seems quite loaded despite the slightness. Granted we don't see much of how he reacts in situations, how he is actually developing as a human being, but he is being himself, pursuing characteristics without an environment conducive to gender dysphoria, and isn't portrayed as rejecting being a 'boy'. I wonder how the series might have been taken if Lincoln had more screen time and how deliberate or reluctant this was.

Twed

Quote from: sevendaughters on June 19, 2019, 08:40:01 AM
He was going to send the file and then do it, I thought.

In terms of the show 'going sci-fi' in the last episode...nothing happened that wasn't flagged up already and it also ended on a note of ambiguity as to whether it even worked or not. It was a slightly jarring switch but it completely worked.
It's not about predictability, more about tone shift. I liked the programme about the social impact of grim, realistic predictions, not the spooky one marvelling about transhumanism.

I thought the Bethany plot was stupid in the last two episodes. She got brain augmentations that gave her access to every computer network and security system in the country? That wouldn't be something that happens, and isn't a good comments on transhumanism at all, it's mainly just a McGuffin.

gilbertharding

I figured The Lincoln Question was answered by the whole 'concept' of the show - no-one in it knows they're in a drama, and they're definitely not in The Future. But this is the future, and it's a future where boys can wear dresses and ribbons in their hair and it's just not that big a deal. No-one mentions it (except once in an aside by someone who knows it's something people USED to be bothered about).

I did think it was amusing how few lines Lincoln had - I think it was episode 4, there was a moment I was wondering if he had ANY lines of dialogue, and then he spoke in the very next scene.

Alberon

Davies talking to the Radio Times

Quote"It always was a one-off," Davies tells RadioTimes.com. "Even way back in production it was never discussed in terms of a second series."

"The show goes 15 years in the future and that's when cars and things would really start to change beyond all recognition. Life would be so different that we'd need a different budget for it – it would be a different and very expensive show.

"Years and Years has reached its limit. It's just time to stop."

There's also the problem of the series' viewing figures. Despite rave reviews – publications like Radio Times praising the "extraordinary" drama – the show's debut audience of 2.39 million slumped to 1.29 million for episode three.

"Let's be honest, the viewing figures aren't that good anyway, so even if we'd planned for a second series I don't think we'd be getting it," said Davies.

"But it was always one. As proof of that, the cast aren't under contract for future series. I think it's probably how we got such a good cast: we always planned to end there."

He also discusses the Edith cliffhanger.

Quote"I will never answer that question," he said. "That's the end. That's the last episode. [A second series would mean] I'd have to decide the Edith question and I would never want to do that."
...
Yet, fans of the show might have a tiny glimmer of hope: when asked, Davies didn't completely rule out that he'd write a spin-off of Years and Years in 2034, when the drama concludes.

"Well, I'm not going to stop writing, so who knows?" he laughed. "Edith the Digital Ghost. Wouldn't that be a marvellous show?"

No.


https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2019-06-19/russell-t-davies-explains-why-hell-never-do-a-years-and-years-series-2/

neveragain

Who was Lincoln? By that last scene I had completely forgot about them.

Alberon

The boy with his hair in ribbons who would have had Graham Lineham reaching for his phone if he was watching.

gib

Quote from: A Hat Like That on June 12, 2019, 09:53:51 AM
... or the Spanish in Cuba. Or many other examples dating back.

The Victorian Brits, as with many other things, named it.

EDIT - there's a lot more bubbling under the "they'll have me killed" line. It reminds me a bit of this alternate history.

That was a cracking read, something about the early internet style really brought it to life.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

It's absolutely riveting and utterly plausible. Thanks for sharing it, Hat, what a find.

petril

Quote from: A Hat Like That on June 12, 2019, 09:53:51 AM
... or the Spanish in Cuba. Or many other examples dating back.

The Victorian Brits, as with many other things, named it.

EDIT - there's a lot more bubbling under the "they'll have me killed" line. It reminds me a bit of this alternate history.

I remember reading that on alternatehistory ages ago, a complete cracker. I found it amusing that Ian Paisley only turns up twice, and is pretty irrelevant both times

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Alberon on June 19, 2019, 05:10:43 PM
The boy with his hair in ribbons who would have had Graham Lineham reaching for his phone if he was watching.

The sheer weight of cognitive dissonance he'd experience while watching Years and Years would cause his heart to explode, which is presumably why he avoided it.

Either that or he was too busy tweeting transphobic abuse to even be aware of its existence.

RicoMNKN

I wonder if one point of Lincoln was to emphasise the time passing. Seeing a baby become a teenager is a more noticeable change than an adult character going a bit grey.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

RTD's most horrifying prediction is that there won't be a cure for baldness within the next fifteen years.

olliebean

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on June 19, 2019, 08:22:33 PM
RTD's most horrifying prediction is that there won't be a cure for baldness within the next fifteen years.

Of course there will. But it won't work on Rory Kinnear.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Kinnear will have the last laugh. Being the world's last remaining bald man will boost his profile beyond the dreams of avarice.

petril

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on June 19, 2019, 07:57:35 PM
The sheer weight of cognitive dissonance he'd experience while watching Years and Years would cause his heart to explode, which is presumably why he avoided it.

Either that or he was too busy tweeting transphobic abuse to even be aware of its existence.

Years and Years is a telly programme, and is thus invisible to Linehan. Linehan can only see that which has a body, and a consciousness that can comprehend the notion of gender and doesn't see it matching well with said body.

Quote from: Alberon on June 19, 2019, 05:10:43 PM
The boy with his hair in ribbons who would have had Graham Lineham reaching for his phone if he was watching.

I'm not sure he would. I've followed these things regarding Gervais and Linehan and obviously find the way they've expressed themselves extremely clumsy and aggressive-defensive. It's a theme that seemed to first show its unsuitability of being dealt with in comedy in Family Guy where the material truly was punching down and unnecessary. Gervais and Linehan have both said things that are in line with what Germaine Greer or Julie Bindel say, though all of them have worded things with a tone that undermines their points.

Lincoln isn't identifying as a girl or transitioning. I would think Linehan would not see faulty philosophy in this if he has been watching. I don't yet know what I think, as a man who experienced gender dysphoria in my teens and since then making no attempt to cultivate the desired would-be masculine traits, and being aware that I could fall genuinely for a trans person of either adopted gender, but still finding the discourse problematic. I've been thinking that Lincoln is underused reluctantly because Russell T Davies was watching his words, trying to navigate the issue compassionately but sceptically.

If we were not socialised with this current regressive attitude founded on one of the many forms of postmodern amnesia, would people be equating the nouns of girl, boy etc with traits so rigidly as to bring about the dysphoria and the trans identifications? I feel very inclined to think that Lincoln is a character founded on such an attitude, which seems subtle and conscientious to me.

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on June 19, 2019, 08:22:33 PM
RTD's most horrifying prediction is that there won't be a cure for baldness within the next fifteen years.

On a brighter note though, according to the show, by 2028 we won't be able to get hold of bananas. They've been rubbish for years anyway - about time. They don't taste of anything. I hope this bit of the show is right and that bananas won't turn out to be the inverse of jetpacks by that point.

daf

Thought that phone hub thing ("Señor"?) looked familiar - straight out of the Leisure Hive :


gilbertharding

All the stuff about a second series is a bluff anyway - they're already filming it, stills are all over the darkweb.



Here we see a tense moment when Bethany (centre) has to restrain (L-R) Stephen, the resurrected cyborg Dan, Lincoln, Edith and Rosie from attacking a hologram of Vivienne Rook and some cybermen.

olliebean

The shooting scripts are available to download, if anyone's interested: https://www.bbc.co.uk/writersroom/scripts/years-and-years

Former

I just watched the whole thing in one go now that it's finished, and I'll be fucked if I'm going to use the B-word. I just fucking watched every episode back to back.

I didn't like it much, but then in some ways I'm not a million miles short of being the sort of person RTD was trying to piss off. I disliked it for the same reasons I wasn't hugely happy with what he did with Who/Torchwood, but I then I quite liked QueerAs and Banana/Cucumber, so he's hit'n'miss with me.

Right from the start the 'diversity' felt almost comically forced with contrivement piled upon contrivement to the point of ludicrousness, with an implicit threat to anybody who dare commit the throughtcrime of considering it not exactly a typical everyman family. And I'm a bisexual man in a mixed race marriage FFS. I know it's done to wind up the gammons, but it detracts from believability for me.

I didn't have much sympathy for any of the main characters. Celeste probably the only one about whom there was nothing I found irritating, apart from maybe her hairstyle.

He played fast and loose with technological advancement as he did in NuWho and it was just as unconvincing - basically chuck in a few outrageously futuristic things to represent advanced tech for plot points, but keep everything else exactly as it is in the present day. So phones will look pretty much the same in 10 years time, apart from the ones that are physically connected to our bodies. Right.

Emma Thompson's villain was as eminently detestable as Emma herself with deeply Authoritarian beliefs barely concealed.

There were hints at some interesting developments, though the tactic of painting a worst case scenario as something likely to happen is pretty cunty. I spent most of my youth terrified of Nuclear War because my teachers convinced me it was about to happen. Having eventually learned to see through the scaremongering, I find dystopian fiction with 'this is one step away from happening if XXX gets into power!!1' overtones massively irritating.

Cunt boss was basically Finchy from the Office. Pantomimethic.

All a bit lazy really, using convenient tropes and popular strawmen. The detail was never really explained, with an over-reliance of 'X is BAAD, Y  is BAAAD, therefore everything is connected with no need to really scrutinize whether it actually makes sense because they're all BAAAD'. I mean how the fuck is someone making money out of oppressive, heavily-manned camps. By definition these things would *cost* money. Authoritarian regimes are massively expensive to maintain. And why does advanced technology allow someone to seamlessly bypass all privacy and security? Tech has been getting *more* secure and will continue to do so. But, hey, let's give an unsettled teenager access to absoluelyfuckingeverything.

Anyway, rant over. It wasn't that bad. Just not really for me, but that wasn't RTD's intention anyway. I'm more pissed off that Cucumber hasn't had a proper Blu Ray release (is the German one worth getting?)

Liked it alot. Was a bit patronizing on the nose  Brexit bad yeah preachy but well meaning. Watched them all in 1 sitting till 3am so says enough.

So Edith (Jessica Hynes) character - she did something with Lincoln were he 'ask to go the toilet when i say diamond' and she fucked up a bank with the data or the erasing of data with her mobile. Was this a hint that she fucked up Stephens bank - the guy who lost a million quid?

sevendaughters

interestingly while people said Brexit was terrible I thought the main takeaway was that people will just keep on getting on with it until things are concentration camp-level unignorable. good thing RTD isn't writing in an American context.