Author Topic: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)  (Read 12054 times)

Twed

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Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #150 on: June 10, 2019, 10:19:53 PM »
Maybe they are thinking of Stalin or something. Fuck knows. It just rankles a bit

Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #151 on: June 11, 2019, 10:55:49 PM »
Best ep since the opener. Unreal.

Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #152 on: June 12, 2019, 01:18:55 AM »
Is there a specific hard-left government that is firmly in favour of deportation that I'm just not thinking of? If so, fair enough...

No, it's just a lazy appeal to moderation

TwinPeaks

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Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #153 on: June 12, 2019, 05:20:44 AM »
That was incredible. I'm not ready for it to end. FUCK IT'S SO GOOD.

Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #154 on: June 12, 2019, 09:43:43 AM »
Quite. From the Christmas message done in proper fascist style through to the "they'll have me killed" and then the calmly done reveal of the Ertswhiles. While it would have been a shock if they weren't, I thought the reveal was incredibly well done.

And then, and then, you hope - absolutely hope - he does the right thing.

And he doesn't.

gilbertharding

  • Not even the rudest man in the Beatles
Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #155 on: June 12, 2019, 09:46:12 AM »
The thing about the concentration camps was good. The misdirection of Stephen's emotions over it all was brilliant. You assume he's appalled - and to be fair, he probably is, but at the same time he's clearly thought of a way to get his twisted revenge on Viktor. And of course the cyborg daughter knows....

The reference to the Boer War made me 'take to twitter' where, predictably, people were all like OMG! It's real!!! Why weren't we taught about this at school!!!! It's like it's a secret!!!!

Which I think is ironic. It's people who haven't paid enough attention to history, whether in school (where if the Boer War isn't on the curriculum, it's because something else is) or otherwise: who seem to think that learning begins and ends with formal education, who are largely responsible for the direction we seem to be heading.

What I'm saying is, I dropped History at age 13, and yet somehow I knew that the British invented the concentration camp (or perhaps it was the Americans in the civil war).

Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #156 on: June 12, 2019, 09:53:51 AM »
... or the Spanish in Cuba. Or many other examples dating back.

The Victorian Brits, as with many other things, named it.

EDIT - there's a lot more bubbling under the "they'll have me killed" line. It reminds me a bit of this alternate history.

gilbertharding

  • Not even the rudest man in the Beatles
Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #157 on: June 12, 2019, 10:11:02 AM »
Yes the 'they'll have me killed' thing was pretty interesting. It's the Frankenstein story, isn't it? She's helped create a monster, and she's now finding she's at its mercy. Is this (to some extent) what happens to all politicians who achieve high office?

Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #158 on: June 12, 2019, 10:51:30 AM »
Thought the dirty bombs stuff went by a bit quick, what who is setting them off? But i suppose that's intentionally left vague.

The escalation of things has become quite intense, back to the pace of the first episode after some slower ones.

gilbertharding

  • Not even the rudest man in the Beatles
Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #159 on: June 12, 2019, 11:08:21 AM »
... or the Spanish in Cuba. Or many other examples dating back.

The Victorian Brits, as with many other things, named it.

EDIT - there's a lot more bubbling under the "they'll have me killed" line. It reminds me a bit of this alternate history.

Googling Boer War Concentration Camps reveals that our old friend Jacob Rees Mogg has some risibly inaccurate opinions about them: http://theconversation.com/concentration-camps-in-the-south-african-war-here-are-the-real-facts-112006

While googling Jacob Rees Mogg reveals the amazing fact that his wife's mother's husband is the man who taught me Architectural History from 1994-1997. And the insight that if I was half cyborg like the girl in Years and Years, all this information would be being fed, unbidden, into my brain 24/7 until I went absolutely stark raving mad.

Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #160 on: June 12, 2019, 12:14:17 PM »
The line about Rook's government not expecting to win so being totally unprepared is an obvious Trump/Brexit analogy. It sort of explains how Bethany is able to become a superhero with access to everything but it's a little plot convenient.

The budget obviously didnt stretch to show the full physical impact of the bombs and floods but RTD is great at showing the human side of it all; Muriel with her gong, the privatised storm troopers who lock you into your estate but have a bit of banter with you. Tenders to run 'erstwhile' camps dished out to Finchy from the office. Stephen looking in the fridge,  RTD gets it just right.

Apparently in the original draft Viktor drowned. Wonder who ended up in Erstwhile and how in that version.

Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #161 on: June 12, 2019, 01:53:07 PM »
I liked the slow, horrific build up to the concentration camp reveal, but I felt that Stephen's boss & his lackeys were a bit too cartoonishly, moustache twiddlingly evil and were out of place with the rest of it.

Plus, I thought the devastating effect of "dirty bombs" had effectively been debunked in real life...

Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #162 on: June 12, 2019, 03:34:35 PM »
Am absolutely loving this but becoming increasingly distracted by the budget apparently not stretching to showing any of the main adult characters ageing. We're almost a decade on from ep1 now and unless I've missed something, they all look exactly the same.

Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #163 on: June 12, 2019, 03:52:44 PM »
Am absolutely loving this but becoming increasingly distracted by the budget apparently not stretching to showing any of the main adult characters ageing. We're almost a decade on from ep1 now and unless I've missed something, they all look exactly the same.

The child has grown up somewhat, and Tovey's character was looking a bit desiccated in this last episode.

gilbertharding

  • Not even the rudest man in the Beatles
Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #164 on: June 12, 2019, 04:45:53 PM »
Not to mention Kinnear being 70% more bald in the last two episodes.

Twed

  • I need you so, Medieval Zone, you don't need me
Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #165 on: June 12, 2019, 06:14:48 PM »
He must have joined CaB sometime in that period.

Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #166 on: June 12, 2019, 08:52:19 PM »
Not to mention Kinnear being 70% more bald in the last two episodes.

Kinnear is always 70% more bald. It's his thing.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

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Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #167 on: June 12, 2019, 09:04:07 PM »
I liked the slow, horrific build up to the concentration camp reveal, but I felt that Stephen's boss & his lackeys were a bit too cartoonishly, moustache twiddlingly evil and were out of place with the rest of it.


I agree, they were far too on-the-nose. Cunts like Woody do exist, of course, but they tend to get where they are by being able to fake some semblance of charm and humanity. During that pub scene with Stephen, Woody came across as comically unpleasant. It would've been more effective if he'd been portrayed as more of a passive-aggressive, insidious cunt.

I also thought Rook's "They'll have me killed" line was unconvincing. Not because I didn't believe in the point RTD was making, just that I can't imagine a politician being so brutally honest with some 'nobody' they've never met before. Or maybe the point was that she just doesn't care anymore?

These are, however, minor quibbles. Years and Years is quite brilliant on the whole.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

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Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #168 on: June 12, 2019, 09:09:08 PM »
Kinnear is always 70% more bald. It's his thing.

Was he wearing a thin hairpiece in the first two episodes? Rory Kinnear is one of those people who appears to be permanently balding without ever going fully bald. Has he finally gone fully bald? I hope so.

The child has grown up somewhat, and Tovey's character was looking a bit desiccated in this last episode.

True, Beth now looks a wee bit older than she did in the first couple of episodes, but no one else has aged at all.

Alberon

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Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #169 on: June 12, 2019, 10:28:32 PM »
Barnstorming fifth episode. I'm a bit surprised we've had the penultimate episode and we're only up to 2028. We're supposed to hit 2034 by the end, so unless there's a big time jump for an epilogue...

Vivien Rook baring her soul somewhat to Stephen was a bit quick and unlikely, but when you're squashing about five seasons worth of plot into six episodes you have to live with it, I suppose. I took her to mean she's riding the tiger. If she gets off it will eat her. There is no great evil plan, no diablolic mastermind.

BritishHobo

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Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #170 on: June 12, 2019, 11:06:15 PM »
I like that it's getting very Doctor Who and Torchwood now, with creepy, mysterious concepts like 'The Disappeared', and 'Erstwhile Places'. It really does feel like Turn Left was a practice run for this; an incredible episode, but one whose central idea he still wanted to explore further. It seems to be basically reaching the same end - thinking Bernard Cribbins crying at their non-English neighbours being taken away to concentration camps. 'Labour camps. That's what they called them last time. It's happening again.' Fucking hell. I love that, when you get to see an idea that a writer's clearly been holding on to and germinating for a long time, and then they finally get to carry out their vision in full. It'll be interesting to see what his ending is; he's not bound by the need to keep it uplifting for families, but he's also not got the luxury of using mad alien technology to make it all go away if that is what he wants to do (although I suppose Bethany could fill that role). Fucking hell, imagine if Viv Rook's government are about to start gassing the poor next week and then John Barrowman comes running round the corner, long coat flapping behind him, bellowing into the wind.

ANYWAY. I really love the way Stephen's character has developed. You expect Rosie to be the one who holds on to her dislike of Viktor and her frustration with Daniel's right-on obsession with getting this guy citizenship, but Stephen's come out in a way that seems surprising at first, until you think about it. What a total humiliation of a life he's had. I think he's a fantastic character. Just an ordinary bloke whose life has spiralled totally out of his control, every attempt to reorient things only fucking it up more and more - and then he loses Dan as well, one thing that isn't his fault. Watching him finally wrest some control to act on the incredible amount of anger and pain he must be holding on to was horrifying and gripping. What an awful, sad, pitiable, horrible, human bastard. And what a lovely lovely person Celeste has turned out to be. All I wanted was for Anne Reid to tell her she's full family, not half. That's the joy of RTD's writing, to be able to balance those two things. To have an episode where Britain reinstates concentration camps, but also with a nice quiet moment where an old lady's family stand her up, so her put-upon daughter-in-law chooses to keep her company. And I love a big BBC drama willing to chat about shit like the Boer War concentration camps, to openly challenge the whitewash of our own atrocities.

Quick side note - I see where you're all coming from, but I really liked the Woody character. I think they got across the nasty, toxic laddishness of that kind of prick in a lovely and succinct way. It's all edgy banter teetering over into genuinely mad conspiracy bigotry, and shit TOP LAD chanting to ape the kind of examples of masculinity they've seen in films. Almost makes you feel sorry for Stephen, for the briefest of moments.

And I love Viktor, too, poor sweet fucker. Nice to see yer lad from Mr Bean's Holiday all grown up and doing well for himself (Ian Boldsworth also did a cracking interview with him on his FUBAR radio show a few weeks back).

Kelvin

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Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #171 on: June 12, 2019, 11:47:22 PM »
I finally got round to watching episode one of this tonight, and after reading so much praise in this thread, I have to admit I was very disappointed. The dialogue was mostly awful; completely functional, with very little that felt like natural conversations. Characters mostly didn't sound like rounded out individuals so much as ciphers for RTD to deliver leaden exposition or leaden political opinions. Scenes like Tovey's first (onscreen) visit to the refugee "village" literally opened with him delivering a big dump of information - rather than spreading it out over the scene more naturally or through visual storytelling - then progressed through a flat, witless conversation laying out the two opposing political perspectives. I just don't think it's well written, or even very funny. Broad brushstrokes are fine, but I actually found the dialogue perfunctory and charmless.

That said, I did think the last ten minutes were much better and genuinely chilling, with the emergency broadcast signal, the sirens going off, and ultimately, the bomb drop. I just wish the dialogue hadn't made getting there feel like one of Brant's political cartoons. I suppose, I also thought the emoji/filter mask was a forward thinking, creepy idea. I just don't know if ideas like that are enough to keep me watching. 

Kelvin

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Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #172 on: June 13, 2019, 12:06:40 AM »
In fact, another example is the opening scene, with Lady Farage on Question Time, where she says something intentionally provocative, but then looks into the camera and says, "Got your attention, though, didn't I?" in a sinister way. I mean, bloody hell, give your audience some credit.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

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Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #173 on: June 13, 2019, 12:13:26 AM »
It is quite broad at times, but it's such a massively angry, funny (maybe not in episode one, but RTD inserts some amusing bits into later episodes) and ambitious blast of "fuck it, we're all fucked" polemical drama, I can't help loving the sheer chutzpah of it.

dr beat

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Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #174 on: June 13, 2019, 12:26:42 AM »
Regarding the aging, I don't think people in their mid-30s going into their mid-40s would look dramatically different compared to other phases of their life (he says as his 42nd birthday looms).  But Stephen does look a tad balder and Celeste and Edith seemed to have a few wrinkles round the eyes, which might be the subtle work of a good makeup dept.

Blue Jam

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Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #175 on: June 13, 2019, 10:31:44 AM »
I think Tovey was laying on the grey hair mascara in the later episodes

Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #176 on: June 13, 2019, 10:39:23 AM »
I did criticise it early for the visual style and largely it has remained polished BBC in the Salford era house style, but the overlay bit where Bethany was watching her dad contribute to genocide was excellent.

Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #177 on: June 13, 2019, 10:55:03 AM »
So wish we'd had 2/3 series of this with room for it to breathe. I love it, but boy is it rushed.

Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #178 on: June 13, 2019, 11:19:41 AM »
I like the accelerated pace of it. Go slower and it ossifies into melodrama through emotional identification, while the course of history feels like inevitability rather than a diagnosis of our present malaise and how we might see into it.

Re: Years and Years (Russell T Davies)
« Reply #179 on: June 13, 2019, 11:27:15 AM »
Rory Kinnear is one of those actors that manages to look more bald as a scene goes on. Plus, I think that's Robbie Coletrane's son from 'Cracker' that plays Kinnear's boss. The one that also did a big real life spunk in '9 Songs'.

I liked a lot of this episode but I felt at some points it was starting to verge on silly thriller territory. I do love the big broad acting combined with nihilistic bleakness though . It made his Doctor Who so bonkers and so great too. Smuggling in crazy dark shit into brightly lit mainstream telly. God, I really didn't appreciate his Who enough at the time.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 11:46:23 AM by lipsink »