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The Byrds

Started by holyzombiejesus, April 21, 2019, 11:49:21 PM

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holyzombiejesus

I used to love these when I was in my teens. They felt like ancient history back then as their records were 20 years old (like, I dunno, Arab Strap are now) but me, my friends and seemingly all the bands I liked back then adored them. They seem to have 'fallen off the critical radar' of late, to the extent that when I just heard Turn, Turn, Turn on Radio 4 I realised that I'd not thought of them for years. The song itself, whilst admittedly never being one of my favourites, sounded quite lame. Does anyone still listen to them?

Sebastian Cobb

They're a decent bunch of lads, up there with Manfredd Mann or something. Don't really get the Arab Stap reference because when I played a cassette of the Byrds on Ian's JVC top loading cassette recorder it was in the early 90's, before AS had had a hit and after the Byrds were well over 30 years old.

jobotic

Wasn't Born To Follow is perfect. I heard that on my stepdad's Easy Rider soundtrack album when I was a young teenager, but I've never heard another song of theirs that matched it.

Lordofthefiles

Sweetheart of The Rodeo is a regular on my turntable - one of my top 50 albums for sure.

Gene Clark is one of my all time favourites too but his solo stuff is far superior to his time with The Byrds.


You should revisit The Byrds immediately by the way.

holyzombiejesus

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on April 21, 2019, 11:54:34 PM
They're a decent bunch of lads, up there with Manfredd Mann or something. Don't really get the Arab Stap reference because when I played a cassette of the Byrds on Ian's JVC top loading cassette recorder it was in the early 90's, before AS had had a hit and after the Byrds were well over 30 years old.

I was just referencing a band who are as old now as the Byrds were when I first listened to them. TTT sounded so so lame when I heard it a bit ago but I rate them far higher than the Mannfredds. In football terms, they were Arsenal but now they're Rotherham. I'm hoping that this thread will inspire me to think of them as (at least) Crystal Palace.

holyzombiejesus

Quote from: Lordofthefiles on April 22, 2019, 12:01:09 AM
Gene Clark is one of my all time favourites too but his solo stuff is far superior to his time with The Byrds.


You should revisit The Byrds immediately by the way.

I will revisit. Tell me more about Gene Clark's solo stuff....

Absorb the anus burn

One of Sir Alfred Hytchcock's best.

Lordofthefiles

Quote from: holyzombiejesus on April 22, 2019, 12:06:15 AM
I will revisit. Tell me more about Gene Clark's solo stuff....

Best place to start is the anthology "Flying High".
Try "No Other" from his solo albums too, it's genreless (is that a word?) and the lyrics show what an unusual talent he was.


...and then there's this sort of thing:

https://youtu.be/oOdxNy6m-A4

Him and his mate knocking out one of the best cover versions ever.


It's not an enormously popular opinion but I bloody love the country incarnation of The Byrds - live records like Fillmore '69 and Albert Hall '71 are phenomenal once you get into the country groove of it. Still super psych-y in all the right places. Clarence White is the best guitarist I've ever heard.

Obviously Sweetheart of the Rodeo set them in that direction but Untitled is great set from that era. As much as I love Gene Clark I never rated the classic lineup - due to Crosby being such a complete and utter shit.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on April 21, 2019, 11:54:34 PM
They're a decent bunch of lads, up there with Manfredd Mann or something.

What?! The Byrds were one of the most innovative and influential bands of their generation, pioneers in the fields of folk rock (a genre they pretty much invented), raga rock, psychedelia and country rock. Their music was a massive influence on the power pop and C86 bands that followed in their wake. Every wan fucker with a fringe and a Rickenbacker owes a huge debt to the Byrds.

Manfred Mann, by contrast, were just a nice little '60s pop group, a solid second-tier act.

Quote from: LynnBenfield69 on April 22, 2019, 12:33:06 AM
It's not an enormously popular opinion but I bloody love the country incarnation of The Byrds - live records like Fillmore '69 and Albert Hall '71 are phenomenal once you get into the country groove of it. Still super psych-y in all the right places. Clarence White is the best guitarist I've ever heard.

I don't think that's an unpopular opinion. Granted, the classic jingle jangle line-up still receives more attention, but that latter incarnation featuring, as you say, the phenomenally talented Clarence White has certainly received its due in recent years. It's been the subject of lengthy Mojo articles etc.

Perhaps not unpopular but it is sad that most people associate them with their first few singles which only represent the first 2-3 years of a long career - only McGuinn played on most of the early records I believe. A lousy live band until McGuinn invited the country players in. Buffalo Springfield were the band that the Byrds could and have been in those early days.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: LynnBenfield69 on April 22, 2019, 08:37:48 AM
only McGuinn played on most of the early records I believe.

Not true. McGuinn was the only Byrd who played on Mr Tambourine Man* (the single, not the album of the same name), but every other Byrds recording was performed by the band themselves.

* Although Crosby sang harmony.

Quote from: LynnBenfield69 on April 22, 2019, 08:37:48 AM
A lousy live band until McGuinn invited the country players in. Buffalo Springfield were the band that the Byrds could and have been in those early days.

While the original incarnation of the Byrds were, by most accounts, a ropy live band, their albums were generally more impressive and eclectic than those released by Buffalo Springfield. The latter may have been superior musicians, but I find their music fairly dull for the most part. That said, For What It's Worth and Expecting to Fly are wonderful. For me, however, they couldn't compete with the Byrds in terms of range. McGuinn's mob were more experimental and interesting.

Epic Bisto

'Lady Friend' is The Byrds' finest hour.


Quote from: Lordofthefiles on April 22, 2019, 12:12:48 AMBest place to start is the anthology "Flying High".
Try "No Other" from his solo albums too, it's genreless (is that a word?) and the lyrics show what an unusual talent he was.


...and then there's this sort of thing:

https://youtu.be/oOdxNy6m-A4

Him and his mate knocking out one of the best cover versions ever.

"No Other" is brilliant, but I personally prefer "White Light".  It has the best cover of 'Tears Of Rage' - it's much better than The Band's overwrought proto-emo whinge.  Gene's version is gorgeous and the one-two punch of 'For A Spanish Guitar' and this always makes me a bit blubbery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skWHppSkqfw

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Epic Bisto on April 22, 2019, 08:52:11 AM
'Lady Friend' is The Byrds' finest hour.

One of their best, without a doubt. Crosby was understandably gutted when it didn't become a hit.

Quote from: Epic Bisto on April 22, 2019, 08:52:11 AM
"No Other" is brilliant, but I personally prefer "White Light".  It has the best cover of 'Tears Of Rage' - it's much better than The Band's overwrought proto-emo whinge.  Gene's version is gorgeous and the one-two punch of 'For A Spanish Guitar' and this always makes me a bit blubbery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skWHppSkqfw

I agree with all of this! White Light is Clark's best album, it's a masterpiece.

the science eel

I agree with all the Gene praise and I implore you not to overlook his first two solo outings - first with the Gosdin Brothers, then the one with Doug Dillard. Beautiful music.

One from each:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVsE3j34_nc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA1yzdxighs

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Absolutely, those first two GC solo albums are great. I love Echoes from his debut, it's such a fantastically ornate piece of highfalutin baroque pop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EofnxCTy8Ms

Pauline Walnuts

I find, and it's just, like my opinion man, that the Byrds are a perfect example of a band who couldn't play very well, and as result played the only things they could, and it was interesting music forged by their limitations.

Learnt to play and could actually make the music that they've always wanted to play. And all the bits that made it interesting have been knocked off and it all safe and totally boring.



To be honest it's been years since I listened to Sweetheart Of The Rodeo, maybe I'd like it now I'm older, safe and totally boring?

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

McGuinn and Hillman were gifted musicians from the get-go, so I don't think it's fair to say that the band couldn't really play. The only novice was Michael Clarke, who basically learned to play drums while actually in the group.

Sin Agog

Quote from: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on April 23, 2019, 12:49:39 AM
I find, and it's just, like my opinion man, that the Byrds are a perfect example of a band who couldn't play very well, and as result played the only things they could, and it was interesting music forged by their limitations.

Learnt to play and could actually make the music that they've always wanted to play. And all the bits that made it interesting have been knocked off and it all safe and totally boring.



To be honest it's been years since I listened to Sweetheart Of The Rodeo, maybe I'd like it now I'm older, safe and totally boring?

Wasn't their first album mostly played by session musicians, or is that apocryphal?

Anyway I don't like boring music, and I like The Byrds.  Turn Turn Turn might be their most boring album, though.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Sin Agog on April 23, 2019, 07:38:56 AM
Wasn't their first album mostly played by session musicians, or is that apocryphal?

It's apocryphal.


Sin Agog

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on April 23, 2019, 07:45:21 AM
It's apocryphal.

Wonder who started that one. I know Lester Bangs used to say it all the time, whilst simultaneously singing Tambourine's praises as a quickie trash-classic.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the confusion presumably arises from the fact that McGuinn was the only Byrd who played on the Mr Tambourine Man single. That's the only time the rest of the band were replaced by session musicians.

It's a bit like the apocryphal and now thoroughly debunked claim that Jimmy Page played the guitar solo on You Really Got Me by the Kinks.

gilbertharding

I love The Byrds too. Almost all the incarnations and versions too.

Crosby's an odd case. I can't stand Mind Gardens, but some of his other songs are among my absolute favourites.

The non-Dylan early stuff (mainly by Gene Clark?) is amazing - beautiful. The mad Psychedelic backwards guitar stuff they did after Clark left. Incredible - wondered why I bothered listening to all that garage stuff which was just a facsimile of this. The country stuff. Everything except the Dylan stuff.

Sin Agog

Why did Roger McGuinn become musical anathema the moment The Byrds broke up?  The cool synth-folk track Time Cube is pretty much the only non-Yacht Rock thing he did in almost 50 years of music-making.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: gilbertharding on April 23, 2019, 10:12:37 AM
Everything except the Dylan stuff.

You don't like any of their Dylan covers? Mr Tambourine Man? Chimes of Freedom? Come on, you must like My Back Pages! It's gorgeous.

Quote from: Sin Agog on April 23, 2019, 10:33:44 AM
Why did Roger McGuinn become musical anathema the moment The Byrds broke up?  The cool synth-folk track Time Cube is pretty much the only non-Yacht Rock thing he did in almost 50 years of music-making.

I guess he just needed the other Byrds - all 47 of them - to keep him in check. Left to his own devices he became just another boring singer-songwriter square. Still, he had at least five years of being an interesting, innovative musician, which is more than most people manage.

gilbertharding

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on April 23, 2019, 10:52:28 AM
You don't like any of their Dylan covers? Mr Tambourine Man? Chimes of Freedom? Come on, you must like My Back Pages! It's gorgeous.

Yeah - of course I wasn't being entirely serious. But I don't much like Dylan (at least not the way I feel I'm supposed to), and I like less the way lazy ignorant people think of the Byrds as a Dylan tribute band.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: gilbertharding on April 23, 2019, 11:01:21 AM
Yeah - of course I wasn't being entirely serious. But I don't much like Dylan (at least not the way I feel I'm supposed to), and I like less the way lazy ignorant people think of the Byrds as a Dylan tribute band.

Anyone who thinks that is an idiot. Obviously. Even if it was true, most of their Dylan covers are better than the originals. Dylan's Mr Tambourine Man drones on for fucking ages, when all it ever needed, as McGuinn astutely surmised, was just one verse, a couple of choruses and a chiming 12-string Rickenbacker riff.

gilbertharding

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on April 23, 2019, 11:30:20 AM
Anyone who thinks that is an idiot. Obviously. Even if it was true, most of their Dylan covers are better than the originals. Dylan's Mr Tambourine Man drones on for fucking ages, when all it ever needed, as McGuinn astutely surmised, was just one verse, a couple of choruses and a chiming 12-string Rickenbacker riff.

No argument on either point from me.

I suppose I could say that the 'truck drivin'' phase of the Byrds leaves me a little cold.

SteveDave

I enjoyed Crosby slagging off the Doors on Twitter on the weekend. Like AIDS calling Cancer a bad disease.