Author Topic: The 'Fuck You, Disney' Thread  (Read 6660 times)

St_Eddie

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Re: The Fuck You, Disney Thread
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2019, 10:13:34 PM »
cringe af.

How appropriate. You fight like a cow.

Re: The Fuck You, Disney Thread
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2019, 10:18:37 PM »
Everytime something related to Disney is the rehash of some old shit (not just live action remakes but Star Wars, certain Marvel, KH etc) comes out I think ffs this is the point where they start cannabalising themselves. But no people love this shit. I remember when Bush Jnr got re-elected people said at least we'll get good art. Then when Obama got elected we'd now have bad art. Then when Trump got elected W people were like artists are stupid. But the point is that mainstream art has been the fucking same.

St_Eddie

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Re: The Fuck You, Disney Thread
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2019, 10:18:59 PM »
Arsed, cigs. But relieved this isn't about Song of the South not being on the streaming service.

Nah, I'm not bothered about that but I am bothered by this...

Quote from: Movie Web
Disney+ will not stream 1946's Song of the South and it will cut a controversial scene from 1941's Dumbo...

Disney is cutting a scene from 1941's original Dumbo movie. The movie spawned the ride at Disneyland and was recently remade by director Tim Burton, though he chose to omit the scene in question too. The aforementioned scene involves the group of crows Dumbo meets up with who give him a feather, allowing him to fly. The leader of the crows is named Jim, as in Jim Crow, which is a not-so-subtle reference to the racist laws that allowed segregation until 1965. Jim even makes some of the same movements and poses as the 19th century blackface character.

Unlike Song of the South, Dumbo has been available unedited for a number of years. Disney+ is moving forward with these edits so far, but it is unclear if they will be altering or omitting any more projects from the vault as the launch date nears. Elements of the original Peter Pan, The Jungle Book, Fantasia, The Aristocats, The Little Mermaid, and Aladdin have all been criticized for being racist over the years, so Disney could very well go in and do some further edits in the near future.

Either have the film on your streaming service or don't.  Either is acceptable but what isn't acceptable is censorship and the airbrushing of history.

Fuck you, Disney.

Re: The Fuck You, Disney Thread
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2019, 10:24:42 PM »
Disney Life has the original Dumbo on it, with the crow scene.

St_Eddie

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Re: The Fuck You, Disney Thread
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2019, 10:28:01 PM »
Disney Life has the original Dumbo on it, with the crow scene.

Probably not for much longer.  Regardless, the DVD also has the scene on it, as does the VHS but that's rather beside the point.

Re: The Fuck You, Disney Thread
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2019, 10:28:43 PM »
The crow scene is the best fucking bit! With the pink elephants and that.

St_Eddie

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Re: The Fuck You, Disney Thread
« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2019, 10:30:56 PM »
So now Dumbo is going to be holding a feather in his trunk for no particular reason.  Bravo, Disney.  Bravo.  Oh, and...

Fuck you, Disney.

Re: The Fuck You, Disney Thread
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2019, 10:33:36 PM »
To be fair, I feel as though Ron Gilbert is being a bit silly by not entertaining the idea of simply licensing the IP from Disney to make his game.  He's stated his reason as being because he believes that Disney will dictate to him on how to make the game but personally, I don't think that they would bother.

Ah, I hadn't realised that was a legit option for him to take and that his own stubbornness was part of the issue. Kind of feel like retracting my previous Fuck You, Disney. I'll get them on something else though, mark my words. Like who outside of Disney even wanted a Toy Story 4 after the perfect closure of 3?

Sin Agog

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Re: The Fuck You, Disney Thread
« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2019, 10:34:02 PM »
But I be done seen everything, when I see an elephant of color fly

St_Eddie

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Re: The Fuck You, Disney Thread
« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2019, 10:50:29 PM »
Really grasping at straws there. Ofcourse they don't want people smoking in the film. Why would anyone want to give free advertisement for cigarettes or make it seem cool?
There's no need for smoking in movies anno 2019.

There's no need for smoking in movies these days?  As in ever?  You are aware that a character who smokes can visually inform the the viewer about the nature of that character, right?  Cigarettes are not used to "give free advertisement for cigarettes".

Ah, I hadn't realised that was a legit option for him to take and that his own stubbornness was part of the issue. Kind of feel like retracting my previous Fuck You, Disney. I'll get them on something else though, mark my words. Like who outside of Disney even wanted a Toy Story 4 after the perfect closure of 3?

This is the same company that inflicted Cars 2 and Cars 3 on the world.  That's just adding insult to injury!  Truly, The Mouse knows no shame.

Fuck you, Disney.

Re: The 'Fuck You, Disney' Thread
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2019, 11:08:24 PM »
Cars 3 was great. What did you not like about that film when you saw it?

And how can cigarettes visually inform someone about a character?

Sin Agog

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Re: The 'Fuck You, Disney' Thread
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2019, 11:11:35 PM »
^ clearly someone who hasn't seen To Have & Have Not.

And no cigarettes cant visually inform someone about a character.

I'm OK with cutting them out of a remake.  They're grotty things that have robbed me of several loved ones, but the above statement simply ain't so.  In the context of West Side Story, innercity kids acting tougher and older than they really are by sucking on cigs would speak volumes about their character.

Re: The 'Fuck You, Disney' Thread
« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2019, 11:16:52 PM »
You quoted me just before the edit. I commented and then thought wait maybe Im wrong and people have a few examples so changed it.

Indeed never seen To Have and Have Not.

St_Eddie

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Re: The 'Fuck You, Disney' Thread
« Reply #43 on: April 24, 2019, 11:37:06 PM »
Cars 3 was great. What did you not like about that film when you saw it?

I haven't and never will watch Cars 3 because it's Cars 3.

And how can cigarettes visually inform someone about a character?

Addictive personality / person who is stressed / someone who is working class (or someone who is well to do if they're smoking a cigar, or posh if they're using a cigarette holder).  It can be an effective cinematic shorthand.

Asking how a cigarette can visually inform the viewer about a character is no different to asking how an outfit can inform the viewer about a character, or how somebody drinking can inform the viewer about a character.

Mister Six

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Re: The 'Fuck You, Disney' Thread
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2019, 12:06:06 AM »
I'd be more convinced at the need for cigs in West Side Story if it was a camp, daft musical with finger-click fight choreography. It's not fucking Kes.

I'm OK with cutting them out of a remake.  They're grotty things that have robbed me of several loved ones, but the above statement simply ain't so.  In the context of West Side Story, innercity kids acting tougher and older than they really are by sucking on cigs would speak volumes about their character.

Maybe they could do what they did with the original West Side Story and just cast a bunch of 40-year-olds as the teens.

Hey, did you know that this guy from West Side Story...



Is this guy from Twin Peaks?



It's true.

St_Eddie

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Re: The 'Fuck You, Disney' Thread
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2019, 12:26:24 AM »
I'd be more convinced at the need for cigs in West Side Story if it was a camp, daft musical with finger-click fight choreography. It's not fucking Kes.

I feel as though you're missing the point somewhat.  The no cigarette mandate is not a film specific decision, it's an across the board rule.  Since when has dictating what can and cannot happen in art been a good thing?

If Disney were producing Kes today, then Ken Loach could wave those kids with cigarettes scenes goodbye.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 12:52:24 AM by St_Eddie »

Sin Agog

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Re: The 'Fuck You, Disney' Thread
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2019, 12:43:42 AM »
Since when has dictating what can and cannot happen in art been a good thing?

Since man first looked at the rear end of a horse with lust in his eyes.

Kelvin

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Re: The 'Fuck You, Disney' Thread
« Reply #47 on: April 25, 2019, 12:43:52 AM »
I feel as though you're missing the point somewhat.  The no cigarette mandate is not a film specific decision, it's an across the board rule.  Since when has dictating what can and cannot happen in art been a good thing?

I basically agree with your Fuck Disney attitude. The strong arming of theater chains, the way their fans just hand wave their expanding monopoly of the market, the fact they're so brilliant at mass producing "just good enough" films (much of Marvel, Star Wars, and their live action remakes).

However, I do think it's a bit odd to suggest that Disney is the only Studio that interferes with a film, or has a dictated set of standards/rules. They all do - so focusing on Disney saying that directors can't include smoking in their films is a bit odd when they all mandate actors to use, cuts they want to see made, entire subplots they want to see added. Hollywood studios interfere, and sometimes it works out for the better, often it produces a more anodyne or homogeneous film. That's the nature of the industry. A problem, yes, but certainly not one unique to Disney, or best exemplified by them forbidding smoking.

St_Eddie

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Re: The 'Fuck You, Disney' Thread
« Reply #48 on: April 25, 2019, 12:56:31 AM »
I basically agree with your Fuck Disney attitude. The strong arming of theater chains, the way their fans just hand wave their expanding monopoly of the market, the fact they're so brilliant at mass producing "just good enough" films (much of Marvel, Star Wars, and their live action remakes).

Absolutely bang on the money.  Particularly in regards to fans hand-waving away something which is extremely troubling.

However, I do think it's a bit odd to suggest that Disney is the only Studio that interferes with a film, or has a dictated set of standards/rules. They all do - so focusing on Disney saying that directors can't include smoking in their films is a bit odd when they all mandate actors to use, cuts they want to see made, entire subplots they want to see added. Hollywood studios interfere, and sometimes it works out for the better, often it produces a more anodyne or homogeneous film. That's the nature of the industry. A problem, yes, but certainly not one unique to Disney, or best exemplified by them forbidding smoking.

Aye, this is a fair point.  I just never turn down an opportunity to knock Disney, I guess because you know, fuck 'em.  They need bringing down several thousand pegs.

Mister Six

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Re: The 'Fuck You, Disney' Thread
« Reply #49 on: April 25, 2019, 01:34:44 AM »
I feel as though you're missing the point somewhat.  The no cigarette mandate is not a film specific decision, it's an across the board rule.  Since when has dictating what can and cannot happen in art been a good thing?

Since when has Disney made art?

Smoking's a horrible habit and not putting it in family films is totally fine.

St_Eddie

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Re: The 'Fuck You, Disney' Thread
« Reply #50 on: April 25, 2019, 02:20:36 AM »
Since when has Disney made art?

Touché.

Chriddof

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Re: The Fuck You, Disney Thread
« Reply #51 on: April 25, 2019, 02:42:49 AM »
The complete series of Fraggle Rock has been released on bluray last year. There are talks of making a new series for their streaming network.

Except it's the version of Fraggle Rock which has the US "wraparound" inserts that's on Blu-Ray, instead of the UK ones. Here's an explanation of what those are from Wikipedia:

Quote
The producers made the series with the intention of it airing in various forms internationally. That concept grew out of Jim Henson's experience adapting Sesame Street to the requirements of foreign markets.[1] The human "wraparound" segments were produced separately in several countries, so the viewer could always relate to the world of the program.

Quote
The British inserts were filmed at the TVS Studios in Southampton, and later at the TVS Television Theatre in Gillingham, Kent (since closed) and presents Fraggle Rock as a rocky sea-island with a lighthouse. Exterior footage was that of St Anthony's Lighthouse located near Falmouth in Cornwall. The lighthouse keeper is The Captain (played by Fulton Mackay), a retired sailor who lives with his faithful dog Sprocket.

(It should also be mentioned that the UK editions also apparently differed in the audio mix - it had extra sound effects added, and additional or alternate music.)

Now, a long story: in 1993 a company called International Family Entertainment bought the rights to the MTM Productions archive (the production company set up by Mary Tyler Moore). The MTM archive was at the time owned by the almost-dead TVS, who had ceased broadcasting only a month before the deal was secured. TVS bought MTM in 1988 as part of the ill-fated attempts at expansion which ended up sinking them. The MTM stuff came with all the TVS stuff in one big package when IFE bought it; IFE itself was then sold onto 20th Century Fox / News Corporation in 1997, who merged the IFE and MTM archives to make Fox Family Worldwide. They also inherited the TVS archive.

In 2001 it was all sold again to Disney, who just wanted Fox Family Worldwide and had zero interest in the TVS side of the purchase, but got it anyway by default. For reasons that have never been explained (but which most likely boils down to "who gives a shit about this limey stuff"), the essential paperwork needed to rebroadcast the programmes, or release them on any home video format, or put them on streaming services was thrown away.

These archives of course would include the UK wraparound segments for the UK version of Fraggle Rock, along with Mr Majeka, No 73, etc. Only a tiny fraction of these segments have turned up in any official release (and even then only as extras), due to both the aforementioned legal problems and the fact that the masters of the complete UK editions appear to be gone and may only survive via VHS recordings. There have been rumours that the original British master tapes of not just Fraggle Rock but everything that TVS produced were junked at some point by Disney in the last 10 -15 years. The Fraggle Rock UK extras on the Blu-Ray are said to have come from a very small collection of inserts (as opposed to full shows) which were held by The Jim Henson Company, possibly as examples for broadcasters in other countries.

This of course also means that a significant part of 1980s British television only exists through VHS off-airs. There's this Youtube channel that was started with the intention of preserving those offairs of TVS material (along with shows from other broadcasters, and lots of lovely old ITV / C4 ad breaks to boot).

As far as I know the only TVS shows that are still regularly re-broadcast are Art Attack (made by an independent production company for TVS, who presumably held onto their own copies of the masters plus the paperwork - and which was being repeated on one of the Disney TV channels last time I checked) and Catchphrase (the previous also applies here - it was made by Action Time for TVS, and has been repeated on Challenge). A few select VHS-sourced clips of No. 73 were included in a clips show a few years ago, apparently thanks to a huge amount of research done by the programme makers to work out all the required residuals.

Re: The 'Fuck You, Disney' Thread
« Reply #52 on: April 25, 2019, 02:58:04 AM »
Since when has Disney made art?

Smoking's a horrible habit and not putting it in family films is totally fine.

I think you could argue that their blockbusters really signal a focus almost totally on entertainment, I mean compared to a lot of bog standard blockbusters of the 90's and 00's I think the Marvel films have more variety and ambition to them but there IMHO not aiming at "art". Probably the "artiest" blockbusters they've put out in recent years are Tron Legacy and Rogue One and both of those didn't last as franchises.

Re: The 'Fuck You, Disney' Thread
« Reply #53 on: April 25, 2019, 05:27:33 AM »
However, I do think it's a bit odd to suggest that Disney is the only Studio that interferes with a film, or has a dictated set of standards/rules. They all do - so focusing on Disney saying that directors can't include smoking in their films is a bit odd when they all mandate actors to use, cuts they want to see made, entire subplots they want to see added. Hollywood studios interfere, and sometimes it works out for the better, often it produces a more anodyne or homogeneous film. That's the nature of the industry. A problem, yes, but certainly not one unique to Disney, or best exemplified by them forbidding smoking.
I agree that other studios are no good as well, but sets Disney apart and makes them worse for me is the fact that have an allegiance to squeaky clean family entertainment. Which there isn't anything inherently wrong with, but it certainly imposes more limits on artists than other studios. I'm not sure exactly how they'll handle the Fox properties, if they'll continue putting out more adult films under the Fox label, but the announcement that the library of Simpsons episodes are going to be exclusive to their Disney-branded streaming service does not bode well to me.

I personally believe that Disney is a key part of the infantilization of culture. I don't know how to sum this all up in a way that makes sense because I'm stupid and don't really want to be writing anything right now, but I'm sure you're all familiar with the Tumblr/certain parts of Twitter mindset that if a film presents something, it is therefore endorsing it? And thus, the film overall is bad/cancelled/whatever? To me that's the product of a generation of minds flooded by Disney movies. Regardless of the quality of most of their films, you have to admit that they're simplistic and represent an extremely unrealistic view of the world. This would be fine if the only people who took these films seriously were the audience they were made for, children. That is not the case.
Adults fucking LOVE Disney. And it's not always a case of simple nostalgia. If you meet a grown person who REALLY likes Disney, they get fucking LIVID if you disparage the company (at least this has been my experience, growing up I had a close friend whose family went to Disney World twice a year and had a house covered in Mickey Mouse garbage, the fucking sinks had Mickey Mouse printed on the inside of them). This has gotten worse now that Disney owns Marvel and Star Wars, because people who love Marvel and Star Wars are also fucking insane. That's why the Disney brand is so insidious to me. They have an army of diehard fans, growing larger the more properties and therefore fanbases they acquire, who will do anything for them, and deflect any criticism. And thus, personal expression dies a little more.
Most children grow up watching Disney films. I did not. As a child I grew up watching Warner Brothers cartoons. The plots of most Warner Bros cartoons, usually, involve an animal trying to murder another animal. This is why I'm so unhappy.
I'm not going to edit any of this.

zomgmouse

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Re: The 'Fuck You, Disney' Thread
« Reply #54 on: April 25, 2019, 05:30:04 AM »
I haven't read any of this thread but would like to concur with its central - nay, titular - message.

Fuck you, Disney.

Phoenix Lazarus

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Re: The 'Fuck You, Disney' Thread
« Reply #55 on: April 25, 2019, 05:48:35 AM »
Mickey Mouse should have sued for libel over Life on Mars's lyrics.

Re: The 'Fuck You, Disney' Thread
« Reply #56 on: April 25, 2019, 06:51:35 AM »
I agree that other studios are no good as well, but sets Disney apart and makes them worse for me is the fact that have an allegiance to squeaky clean family entertainment. Which there isn't anything inherently wrong with, but it certainly imposes more limits on artists than other studios. I'm not sure exactly how they'll handle the Fox properties, if they'll continue putting out more adult films under the Fox label, but the announcement that the library of Simpsons episodes are going to be exclusive to their Disney-branded streaming service does not bode well to me.

I personally believe that Disney is a key part of the infantilization of culture. I don't know how to sum this all up in a way that makes sense because I'm stupid and don't really want to be writing anything right now, but I'm sure you're all familiar with the Tumblr/certain parts of Twitter mindset that if a film presents something, it is therefore endorsing it? And thus, the film overall is bad/cancelled/whatever? To me that's the product of a generation of minds flooded by Disney movies. Regardless of the quality of most of their films, you have to admit that they're simplistic and represent an extremely unrealistic view of the world. This would be fine if the only people who took these films seriously were the audience they were made for, children. That is not the case.
Adults fucking LOVE Disney. And it's not always a case of simple nostalgia. If you meet a grown person who REALLY likes Disney, they get fucking LIVID if you disparage the company (at least this has been my experience, growing up I had a close friend whose family went to Disney World twice a year and had a house covered in Mickey Mouse garbage, the fucking sinks had Mickey Mouse printed on the inside of them). This has gotten worse now that Disney owns Marvel and Star Wars, because people who love Marvel and Star Wars are also fucking insane. That's why the Disney brand is so insidious to me. They have an army of diehard fans, growing larger the more properties and therefore fanbases they acquire, who will do anything for them, and deflect any criticism. And thus, personal expression dies a little more.
Most children grow up watching Disney films. I did not. As a child I grew up watching Warner Brothers cartoons. The plots of most Warner Bros cartoons, usually, involve an animal trying to murder another animal. This is why I'm so unhappy.
I'm not going to edit any of this.

So what you're saying is, Disney makes things people really like?

To answer your question about Fox: they recently announced that they had plans for Alien sequels, Deadpool sequels etc and that they would continue to be released under Fox, so I expect that Fox will continue as normal for all intents and purposes and be free to release "adult" material, like Miramax did for example.

I'm assuming West Side Story is going to be a big summer film geared towards families so the smoking thing doesn't surprise or bother me.

I don't mind their streaming service either - at first I selfishly got annoyed at the thought of Netflix getting shitter and other studios copying the idea and pulling their material from Netflix and Amazon too until only the largely abysmal Netflix originals remained. But actually if anyone's concerned about monopolies, it's a good thing that Netflix and Amazon take a kicking. The more competition the better. It could also be a lifeline for physical media - buy what you specifically like rather than spending a fortune on multiple streaming services which you rarely have time to watch anyway.

Really, I think other studios just need to up their game. The likes of Sony and Universal have been gash for years.

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Re: The Fuck You, Disney Thread
« Reply #57 on: April 25, 2019, 07:35:17 AM »
Find me one person who is actually like "I really enjoy Mickey Mouse as a character, and look forward to seeing him on screen" FUCKING NOBODY thinks this

To be fair I think the studio had realised this by about the mid-40s.

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Re: The 'Fuck You, Disney' Thread
« Reply #58 on: April 25, 2019, 07:48:29 AM »
Chalk me up as somebody else who doesn’t think cigarettes need to be promoted in any family film.  I’m glad that trend has died out to be honest.

If your film absolutely can’t survive without carefully shot smoking scenes to make the habit look sexy, rebellious, alluring, a device to make you the centre of attention, a device to make you seem like the outcast - and whatever else is on the Marlboro instruction sheet then it’s probably not a very good film is it, really.

Kids have been seduced into starting smoking due to scenes in The Breakfast Club, as well as many other films targeted at them.  So it’s no small matter, in my view. 

And I can’t fathom why the decision to not show young people smoking in a West Side Story remake would deeply annoy anybody.  Kids aren’t thinking “that cigarette there indicates that this family are of a lower income threshold,” they’re thinking “that looks cool”.  And anyone smoking in films isn’t limited to certain subsets of society anyway - the point of promoting smoking in films is to help you see that everyone does it, in as many circumstances as possible.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 07:58:39 AM by Replies From View »

Re: The 'Fuck You, Disney' Thread
« Reply #59 on: April 25, 2019, 08:11:04 AM »
Chalk me up as somebody else who doesn’t think cigarettes need to be promoted in any family film.  I’m glad that trend has died out to be honest.

If your film absolutely can’t survive without carefully shot smoking scenes to make the habit look sexy, rebellious, alluring, a device to make you the centre of attention, a device to make you seem like the outcast - and whatever else is on the Marlboro instruction sheet then it’s probably not a very good film is it, really.

Kids have been seduced into starting smoking due to scenes in The Breakfast Club, as well as many other films targeted at them.  So it’s no small matter, in my view. 

And I can’t fathom why the decision to not show young people smoking in a West Side Story remake would deeply annoy anybody.  Kids aren’t thinking “that cigarette there indicates that this family are of a lower income threshold,” they’re thinking “that looks cool”.  And anyone smoking in films isn’t limited to certain subsets of society anyway - the point of promoting smoking in films is to help you see that everyone does it, in as many circumstances as possible.

Well said. Couldnt agree more.

There is no point in smoking in movies. I hope in a few year there wont be any films with smoking in it. In all the examples given how cigarettes can visually inform someone about a character can easily be substituted for something else. Its just a cheap method indeed and a weird argument to defend. No smoking in (family) films is a good rule.

Quote
So what you're saying is, Disney makes things people really like?

To answer your question about Fox: they recently announced that they had plans for Alien sequels, Deadpool sequels etc and that they would continue to be released under Fox, so I expect that Fox will continue as normal for all intents and purposes and be free to release "adult" material, like Miramax did for example.

I'm assuming West Side Story is going to be a big summer film geared towards families so the smoking thing doesn't surprise or bother me.

I don't mind their streaming service either - at first I selfishly got annoyed at the thought of Netflix getting shitter and other studios copying the idea and pulling their material from Netflix and Amazon too until only the largely abysmal Netflix originals remained. But actually if anyone's concerned about monopolies, it's a good thing that Netflix and Amazon take a kicking. The more competition the better. It could also be a lifeline for physical media - buy what you specifically like rather than spending a fortune on multiple streaming services which you rarely have time to watch anyway.

Really, I think other studios just need to up their game. The likes of Sony and Universal have been gash for years.   

Yup. Great points.