UKIP MEP candidate caught up in racial slur scandal

[Autopsy Turvey]

Careful Edgy McEdgelord

Vader gets redemption man, a true Edgy McEdgelord would prefer the Emperor, or Jar Jar Binks.

EDIT: Thank goodness that page is over, right readers!

[Buelligan]

The point is that Thatcher and right-leaning women don't see women as a discrete group in need of special treatment in the way that the left/feminists do...

How do you know this?  You're an absolute fucking idiot.  No offence.

[Autopsy Turvey]

No fair's fair, I didn't mean to make an absolute statement on that, feel free to insert words like some, may, generally, to an extent and/or in my admittedly limited understanding. I feel I'm not an absolute idiot but a semi idiot, which is arguably worse, but let he or indeed she who is without idiocy cast the first ad hominem stone.

[Autopsy Turvey]

How do you know this? 

Also just briefly, I know how Thatcher viewed the issue because she spoke about it in interviews, there are whole quotes, but I can't be cluttering up this den of radicals with reams of Thatch chat. And I've known women suspicious of feminism to voice similar thoughts on the subject of gender identity vs national identity/group vs individual, and only a few of them have been stupid, evil and/or mad. Same ratio as the feminists.

[sponk]

Also, someone said 'would he tell a child that he wouldn't even rape her? Ahh'. But I mean the layers of context for this sick shock filth quip are such that a child couldn't have been the recipient, it had to be an adult with political power who was proposing internet censorship on the basis of rape threats, without that it wouldn't exist as a sentence. The better question is would he have said it if it was a man? Not sure if that would have made it better or worse.

I guess you're not moving the goalposts but you're definitely using alternate ones as it suits. Sargon sometimes used that defense of his rape tweet, but I've seen him justify it simply by saying "it wasn't a threat, it was the opposite" so, taking that defense into account, why wouldn't you say it to a child if it wasn't a nasty or threatening thing to say?

[Buelligan]

Also just briefly, I know how Thatcher viewed the issue because she spoke about it in interviews, there are whole quotes, but I can't be cluttering up this den of radicals with reams of Thatch chat. And I've known women suspicious of feminism to voice similar thoughts on the subject of gender identity vs national identity/group vs individual, and only a few of them have been stupid, evil and/or mad. Same ratio as the feminists.

As I said before, I don't think you're able to grasp one thread of logic and maintain it, there's no point in a conversation like that so I won't make the mistake of engaging with your tsunami of unpleasant emotion again.

[TrenterPercenter]

As before I'm not addressing every point as it is exhausting but I am happy to if you feel I have run away from anything.

Whee! If you've worked extensively with the mentally ill you might have seen a disproportionate amount of what must be a lunatic fringe opinion, because it sounds a bit hyperbolic to me. I've known men to rank women in terms of physical attractiveness (and vice versa), but that doesn't mean they think the woman with the least 'sexy points' is worth nothing, surely? That would be psychopathic.

What are you talking about? You made a stupid absolutist comment about something that was easily falsifiable.  Now, rather than roll back on this error you are just making some equally stupid strawman argument. 

If you mean more broadly, that some girls feel downhearted by pictures of the impossibly attractive women employed to advertise suncream, they must have noticed that the sort of women chosen to advertise suncream don't look like anyone in the real world.

You seem to have an under developed understanding of human psychology.  Here is a tip, don't start your reasoning from the conclusions that are convenient for you.  I am guessing you are 50 plus with your comments about Thatcher and Kinnock, getting that far into life without understanding how minds are shaped by their environment is quite sad indeed.  You have an opinion, you should prefix your statements as such.

I don't understand this bit at all.

It is very simple.  Your anecdote, one that seems dripping with envy or something, about a feminist man telling a group of women they can't talk about make up, is not equivalent to the decades of research and evidence on women and oppression.  I will say again it is rank idiocy to claim it doesn't exist.  It is akin to being a flat earther, sure you can be all edgy and sneery within the your little support cult but it's not reality, everyone outside of it looking in just thinks it is deranged.  So of course you end up inventing your own conspiracy theories about "lefties" and cultural Marxists that have brainwashed people to not see the world through your mad prism.

The starting point is here for any serious commentary....."women have been oppressed throughout history, and although things have gotten better that is not to say women as a group do not face sexism in the modern age...."

There is much to debate from there, you can critique feminist thought, movements or discuss how oppressive policies or cultural views are not uniform across all women. Also how men can be oppressed and discriminated against.  It starts there though to have any adult dialogue about this.

Well I'd advise either a) believing you are worth *more* because you do not fit society's mediated paradigm, or b) who really fits society's mediated paradigm?!

Dross in the sense that you think just explaining to people what they should do is efficacious intervention.  Eating Disorders (which affects between 1-2% of the population that's 1.3 million "outliers") for example are notorious for their resistance to treatment and high mortality rates.  That is because mental health isn't just "thinking" it has a physiological basis.  There are not women in ED ICTs because no-one told them what air-brushing was.
   

Oh now. It's not absolutist, I don't mean to say absolutist things. It's never 100% anything of anyone, of course, but in my colossal experience of women....

This I find hard to believe.  If you are worried about being absolutist don't say absolutist things.  It really is that simple.  Lots of women enjoy make-up, yes?!, what has that got to do with anything.  We are talking about social conditioning and marketing.

He's not harming anyone though, really. I don't know. I suspect if he was making points you agreed with, and ridiculing the people you hate, you'd find him quite affable

Apologist nonsense.  Yes he is harming people indirectly by empowering racists, sexists and disabilists.  No, I wouldn't find him affable because I have principles that are based around not being a cowardly bully punching down on women, already oppressed groups and disabled children. Mate have a fucking look at yourself and what you are defending, you seem to think there is some equivalence, there isn't, people that behave like this cunt are cunts.  I can only imagine some deep seated anger at something or other in your life has led your mind to think someone not calling a disabled child a retard is equal to someone saying a disabled child is a retard (for money and clicks), its the reasoning at the level of a toddler (btw no more apologisms about the context of his comment I know about it and no it doesn't matter).

Yes! Yes of course, but the hatred is because he takes their talking points and suggests ways to address them without recourse to fascism. You explained re: fascism: "it is about suppression of opposition (by violence if necessary), ultranationalism, economic and cultural authoritarianism." Unless your argument is that Carl is just lying about his true beliefs, he has spoken against all of these things.

Those are the characteristics, how fascists get into power is via the inequality created by capitalism disintegrating under the weight of it's own contradictions.  The ruling classes, rather than risk fundamental change to hierarchies move to assent and promote fascists, their first job is to violently suppress opposition, which basically means the murder of socialists – like the ones rounded up and summarily shot in Italy, Germany and Chile.  Carl having a tiff with the far-right and calling them racist terms, whilst joining the new BNP and promoting ideologies that are predicated on hatred towards already oppressed groups does not make him a fucking hero, being not as much of a cunt as Richard Spencer isn't a laudable situation to be in.

Whereas if you insert the word 'inter' between the words 'ultra' and 'nationalism', all of these things come closer to describing the people who storm his venues, throw things at him, threaten his family and demand his removal from all the major Silicon Valley internet platforms.

Eh? I don't know about the silly word gymnastics.  People don't like Carl because he is rude, misogynist, racist, disablist.  It isn't complicated, it isn't an "internationalist" agenda it is because he stands for the horrible aspects of humanity.  He is an outrage generator and a bully, for money, fucking promoting him as some upstanding individuals is just pitiful, he is a fucking gnome of a man.

Of course I don't disagree that Frankie is better at jokes than Carl, but Carl's "nobody's got that much beer" howler is funnier than Boyle's mystifying line about Katie Price being raped by her disabled son.

It was a shit joke by Frankie, Carl could probably make several shit jokes if he wasn't such a horrid gimp with an awful world view the rest of the time. He doesn't do jokes anyway he does sneery put downs like the longtitted man-bitch that he is.  It is group identity building for miserable men that desperately need external targets lest they reflect on their own hated filled insides. 

It's not a happy place, rest assured its hate dynamic is essential, it is doomed to always just be on the precipice "this time next year Rodney we'll be calm happy life lovers, just as soon as we have DESTROYED the feminazis and created a civic nationalism based on the good old days when you could be openly racist".  Will you fuck, you can't build anything out of anger, you'll be doomed to circle the toilet bowl of life, burbling on and on about how the left has stopped you getting laid and clicking on videos of angry men to gulp down their digital prozac.

Is there a link to this?

Yeah have a few

https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/87vpgy/sargon_of_akkads_they_dont_raise_kids_in/
http://www.subspecieist.com/race-iq/sargon-confirms-race-realism-support-in-youtube-train-wreck-debate/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RC31maEwNs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdE-bWQK65w&feature=youtu.be (full video)

Surely there are valid, principled, liberal criticisms to be made of 'fourth wave' feminism, intersectionality, far-leftism and Islam.

Yes of course there is the operate word is "valid", making out that feminism is wrong and women are not oppressed is not valid.  As mentioned before it is simply infantile and easily refutable nonsense  usually spread by men with massive chips on their shoulders.  I have lots of sympathy for the area of male mental health but I don't see how entertaining peoples bigotry is helpful.

Well it's a world view that they recognise, and if they don't take it to Stormfront that would be brilliant. If they read John Stuart Mill instead, like Carl advises, that would be even better. Surely.

We've covered this he is not pacifying the far-right, he is promoting hatred towards the typical targets of the far-right.

Or even working class white men, yes quite.  I don't feel victimised, I just mean that if identity politics is the alt-left's order of the day, how else do white straight men 'intersect' but 'problematically'? Is there any form of politically conscionable pride in or advocation for these identities? I can hear Jess sniggering. If not, might we need to find some in the future?

Grow up.  If you want to help the cause get out there and do something, hating on women and laughing at grown men calling disabled children retards does the square root of fuck all to help working class white men, as does supporting the economic and societal conditions that have oppressed them.

And yes of course you can feel proud to be a white straight man (a human), the thing is not to be a dick about it.  It is exactly people like Carl that don't make me feel pride in being a straight white male, because this fucking state of a man is the best we can offer.  Look he isn't a nazi or the worst person in the world but he is arguably one the most pathetic.

[Dr Rock]

Carl could probably make several shit jokes if he wasn't such a horrid gimp with an awful world view the rest of the time. He doesn't do jokes anyway he does sneery put downs like the longtitted man-bitch that he is.

But in the interview he just did on the BBC he defended himself by talking about 'other comedians.' Than himself. Ironically that was funny.

[Dr Rock]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8b8Ipyv-Yk

Carl has uploaded this debate with someone that came to one of his shabby little rallies presumably because he thinks he comes off better. He super doesn't, trying to link 'muslim rape gangs' with Brexit, for a start.

[Sebastian Cobb]

When being a potty mouth is worse than being Tommy Robinson.



https://twitter.com/jessieSwiet/status/1129684367838765056

[Buelligan]

Thanks for that. Heheh.

[idunnosomename]

I got one of those via royal mail too. I didnt put it on social media because I dont want to spread it but the racist rhetoric ("muslim rape gangs", "islamification of society") is frightening, as well as blatant fascist populism against the "elites" (including, interestingly, specifically Farage)

[Dr Rock]

Corbyn attacking the far right spreading islamophobia, yesterday at a rally
video here https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1130010449368539136

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has condemned an apparent far-right surge ahead of next week's European elections, likening it to Nazi Germany.

In a speech at a campaign event in Bootle on Saturday, Mr Corbyn drew a comparison to 1930s Germany as he attacked the far-right for "simplistic answers which can only breed hatred and division."

Resurgent far-right parties could win as many as 132 MEPs across Europe according to early projections, amounting to 19 per cent of the total seats in the European Parliament.

The leader compared "propaganda" being put out ahead of the 23 May elections to the rise of the Nazi Party.

He said: "I read the propaganda being put out by the far-right in this European election, where they're blaming Muslims for all the ills of our society.

"Change that language to the language used in Germany in the 1920s and 1930s... you begin to see where this leads to."

"Change that language to the language used in Germany in the 1920s and 1930s, where they tried to blame Jewish people for all the ills of society. You begin to see where this leads to.

"We have to come together today, not just to oppose the far right but also to analyse what's happened and above all how we fix it and how we go forward."

Mr Corbyn added: "If we are to live in a world of peace, live in a world that can survive, deal with the great challenges of the world, you only do it by coming together, you only do it by pooling our minds, our brains, our energy, our imagination and our resources.

"If instead we allow the far right in Europe to mount once again the spectre, the scourge, the hatred of anti-Semitism in Poland, in Austria, in Germany, in Hungary, if we allow them to mount the spectre of Islamophobia in France, in the Netherlands or in this country, then we are weakening."

Later in his speech Mr Corbyn referenced English Defence League founder Tommy Robinson, who is running as an MEP candidate in North West England, leading to loud booing from attendees.

[Dr Rock]

Corbyn didn't mention Carl by name, but just on the basis of that interview I posted earlier, he says 'Islam is a big problem' in the UK, says non-muslim Brits 'identify first as British' while Muslims identify first as Muslim, that the grooming child abuse cases are because of Islam, and would reluctantly ban the burqa. 

He's spreading far right talking points, things that will inflame tensions and possibly lead to violence against muslims. What he said on the internet as Sargon is one thing, saying this stuff while being a politician seeking power is another. It's fascist talk.

[Dr Rock]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuUsh_l9xoE

Carl does his own Hustings because he wasn't allowed in the real one. Goes on about Islam again. Would use his power as an MEP to try to get the state to regulate which forms of Islam could be taught in the UK, and that monitoring cameras should be set up in mosques to enforce that. When asked about Tommy Robinson becoming an advisor for UKIP he says it was a 'morally correct' decision. Defends new UKIP member Paul Joseph Watson as not a conspiracy theory peddler, although that's what he is. Such as the conspiracy theory of 'the great replacement' where muslims/immigrants take over a white country
https://twitter.com/prisonplanet/status/884736662684741632

Also blithers on why he saw 'no problem' using the N word.

#keepingtrackoffascists

[madhair60]

Christ, how have you useless cunts let it get this far. Absolutely unreal.

[touchingcloth]

Are we approaching a Question Time broadcast with Paul Joseph Watson on the panel? And if so, will be bring along his map to put behind himself?

[idunnosomename]

Are we approaching a Question Time broadcast with Paul Joseph Watson on the panel? And if so, will be bring along his map to put behind himself?

they will have to construct a facsimile of his mum's attic space for him where he presumably crouches on the floor with the camera in his face

[jobotic]

I hope he smokes. He'll win just by looking the coolest.

[Barry Admin]

Back to Sargon, I mentioned on the previous page his debate with Kristi Winters, and I'm just listening again to the much more informal (and therefore enjoyable) follow up appearance he made on Kristi and Kevin Logan's stream. I remember him having a brilliantly petulant little strop at one point: https://youtu.be/5x-D2G93Skg (gets going at 11 minutes in.)

They're good, them two.

So although Sargon/Carl does Dunning-Kruger his way through barriers that might stop more self-aware people, I think in the end he does reinforce my belief in letting people talk, rather than just deplatforming them and all that tosh. As I said, his supporters are so partisan they rarely accept he's made a tit of himself, but everyone else can certainly observe the metaphorical milkshaking.

[TrenterPercenter]

Just seen the Carl Benjamin BBC interview.

He is done, it is appalling and he comes out very badly from it.  Would not be surprised if he is dropped from UKIP soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAdxfIPNtt0

[Cuellar]

Just seen the Carl Benjamin BBC interview.

He is done, it is appalling and he comes out very badly from it.  Would not be surprised if he is dropped from UKIP soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAdxfIPNtt0

Ugh.

Doubt it though, they don't care.

[Cuellar]

Back to Sargon, I mentioned on the previous page his debate with Kristi Winters, and I'm just listening again to the much more informal (and therefore enjoyable) follow up appearance he made on Kristi and Kevin Logan's stream. I remember him having a brilliantly petulant little strop at one point: https://youtu.be/5x-D2G93Skg (gets going at 11 minutes in.)

They're good, them two.

So although Sargon/Carl does Dunning-Kruger his way through barriers that might stop more self-aware people, I think in the end he does reinforce my belief in letting people talk, rather than just deplatforming them and all that tosh. As I said, his supporters are so partisan they rarely accept he's made a tit of himself, but everyone else can certainly observe the metaphorical milkshaking.

Bwahaha

Carl: "It's not just one [democrat that's been elected], though, is it"
Kristi: "But you can't show that" - [the minutes preceding have been them laughing at Carl's inability to do any basic research to back up an assertion about how many leftie democrats were elected]
Carl: "...I can, I'm just not going to"

LOL

[imitationleather]

Ugh.

Doubt it though, they don't care.

All that UKIP has now is the publicity created by Carl and the other one.

Can't believe I watched that interview. My YouTube recommendations are going to be fucked for months.

[Barry Admin]

Bwahaha

Carl: "It's not just one [democrat that's been elected], though, is it"
Kristi: "But you can't show that" - [the minutes preceding have been them laughing at Carl's inability to do any basic research to back up an assertion about how many leftie democrats were elected]
Carl: "...I can, I'm just not going to"

LOL

It's fucking great, isn't it? :-D I'd forgotten about Vee (Sargon's carrier pigeon and manservant) being dubbed a "milk-fed gimp."

[Dr Rock]

My YouTube recommendations are going to be fucked for months.

Mine are fucked right up. I had to click on a bunch of quantum physics videos to get rid of the scary far right bollocks. Still don't understand string theory.

[Endicott]

Mine are fucked right up. I had to click on a bunch of quantum physics videos to get rid of the scary far right bollocks. Still don't understand string theory.

Get into some Lenny Susskind that's where it's at.

[jobotic]

I had " Farage loses it in Marr interview" and "Farage DESTROYS IDIOT BBC presenter" in the same side menu last night.

[Barry Admin]

I never really understand the complaints about YouTube recommendations being messed up, I love having a good mix of stuff in there to choose from, and just refresh if nothing takes my fancy. Occasionally use "Not Interested" particularly for those fucking maddening Twitter/FB style updates they introduced a while back. Or you can just use your subs page.

[Buelligan]

Hmmm.  I had a visiting friend use my computer a few times when I was at work "to check their emails" a couple of years ago.  After that, for a fair old while, I kept getting really rather (very) odd-looking oriental porn recommendations. 

I ignored it and, happily, it seems to have cleared up.  But it was touch and go for a while.