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The Virtues (new Shane Meadows drama)

Started by Ballad of Ballard Berkley, May 01, 2019, 10:56:50 PM

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Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

It felt tacked on because stylistically it stuck out like a sore thumb. And did it really offer any further information than the Catholic thing (and we'd already seen the photo of him with the nuns, hadn't we)? We already knew he was seeking oblivion in drink, because he'd just spent what seemed like half the episode getting plastered with strangers. Was it really necessary to watch him wolf down a kebab?

I appreciate letting scenes breathe, but there's breathing and then there's hyperventilating. I reckon the entire boozing sequence could have been cut by a good ten minutes without harming the episode.

Bence Fekete

I thought the momentum of  the race-to-the-bottom drinking scenes were very well done.  He can't stop pressing the button until he's a completely different animal, and you kind of have to go through it all with him.  Until he reaches wobbly primate kebab beast.  Until he's ruined every last scrap of relief the earlier stages of his binge had facilitated.  Great opener. 

the science eel

Ten minutes of blubbering in a kid's bedroom?

No ta

jobotic

I really want to watch this but can't face it at the moment.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: the science eel on May 22, 2019, 09:26:58 PM
Ten minutes of blubbering in a kid's bedroom?

No ta

Your loss.

Quote from: jobotic on May 22, 2019, 09:29:29 PM
I really want to watch this but can't face it at the moment.

Yeah, it's great but utterly punishing.

non capisco

This is completely riveting. I'm simultaneously champing at the bit to to watch the final episodes and dreading the intensity and consequences of Joseph's malign memories fully breaking to the surface.

Loved the scene at the dinner table with the whole family, Meadows' innate skill at verisimilitude at its finest. "Swear box!"

the science eel

Quote from: non capisco on May 22, 2019, 10:14:50 PM
This is completely riveting. I'm simultaneously champing at the bit to to watch the final episodes and dreading the intensity and consequences of Joseph's malign memories fully breaking to the surface.

Loved the scene at the dinner table with the whole family, Meadows' innate skill at verisimilitude at its finest. "Swear box!"

Yeah, that was very well done.

Every time I suggest something's improvised, someone steps in to say 'NOOO! that's not the way he works, dumb-arse!' - but surely that scene wasn't scripted. Not the kids bits, at least.

I think I'm getting a bit tired of Stephen Graham's simmering. I mean, he's very good and all, but I want him to hit a table or something. I thought he was going to twat Sinbad at the ferry office last week. But no.


gib

agree some of the scenes are improvised.

I'll be honest, i'd quite like to see the protagonist go out on the the piss again, like Clint in the second half of Unforgiven.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

The fact that he hasn't exploded into violence - which is what you expect from a Stephen Graham character - is absolutely integral to the power of this drama, it's a massive source of tension.   

Quote from: the science eel on May 22, 2019, 11:25:55 PM
Every time I suggest something's improvised, someone steps in to say 'NOOO! that's not the way he works, dumb-arse!' - but surely that scene wasn't scripted. Not the kids bits, at least.

Do they? That's a bit silly of them, Meadows dramas are known for being quite heavily semi-improvised (to a certain extent, obviously). As you say, you can't tightly script entirely natural-sounding dialogue like that.

The tension with the flasher was palpable and maybe a double bluff but ill be shocked if we don't get a combo style kicking coming his way when repressed anger pops up

the science eel


non capisco

I am in absolute awe of Stephen Graham. Also, for such a heavy watch this don't half zip past each week.

the science eel

He's great but so's everybody else. Perfect casting.

I think this and Chernobyl are the two best TV dramas we've had in a very long time. We're spoiled.

Rev+

Quote from: non capisco on May 29, 2019, 10:00:33 PM
I am in absolute awe of Stephen Graham. Also, for such a heavy watch this don't half zip past each week.

Yeah, the end of the hour really snuck up on me last week and again this time.  It might be because it tends towards long, extended scenes, but then again that usually has the opposite effect.

Mister Six

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on May 19, 2019, 12:13:53 AM
The TIE spin-off series is such a weirdly mixed bag. Initially it presented itself as a broad, unfunny comedy show, a sort of Midlands-based Shameless, utterly at odds with the tone of the original film. As it progressed, it became more in tune with Meadows' usual style - a serious, harrowing social-realist drama and character study leavened by occasional moments of dry humour.

It's definitely worth sticking with, but I do understand why people might be put off by the first couple of episodes.

Isn't that the arc of most of his films up to that point? Starting off with some humour but ratcheting up the tension and drama as it goes along? But spread over episodes rather than a couple of hours.

JesusAndYourBush

Quote from: the science eel on May 29, 2019, 10:02:51 PM
He's great but so's everybody else. Perfect casting.

I think this and Chernobyl are the two best TV dramas we've had in a very long time. We're spoiled.

At 7pm this evening I watched episode 1 of Chernobyl, so tonights episode of The Virtues came as light relief.

Presumably next week we'll find out what happened to make him run away.  Bonus points if it's something other than the obvious.

beanheadmcginty

The most recent episode confused me because I was under the impression that the punchy blonde girl was the daughter of Stephen Graham's sister. But presumably she isn't because her reaction to incest would be a bit stronger.

the science eel

Quote from: beanheadmcginty on May 30, 2019, 11:49:32 AM
The most recent episode confused me because I was under the impression that the punchy blonde girl was the daughter of Stephen Graham's sister. But presumably she isn't because her reaction to incest would be a bit stronger.

She's his sister-in-law (SG's sister's husband's sister)

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Mister Six on May 30, 2019, 01:18:49 AM
Isn't that the arc of most of his films up to that point? Starting off with some humour but ratcheting up the tension and drama as it goes along? But spread over episodes rather than a couple of hours.

Sort of. Up to a point, as you say. But TIE 86 starts off like Little Britain meets The Two Ronnies, it's far too knockabout and silly. A Room for Romeo Brass is utterly sickening when it twists from the sort of film you thought were watching into something else, but that twist feels deliberate and earned. TIE 86 staggers, jarringly, from the Fat Les Vindaloo video into... well, you know what it turns into.

DukeDeMondo

I really hope this doesn't collapse with a sad piano clatter in six day's time, because so far, for me, it's the best thing Shane Meadows has done since This Is England.

The film, I mean. And much as I enjoy Le Donk.   

Mesmerising stuff. Hasn't really put a foot wrong since it started. I will say, though, that the shot of the cement mixer mixing cement all slow motion in last night's episode put me on edge. Shane Meadows shouldn't be allowed near the slow motion any more than Stephen Graham's character here should be allowed near the stout.

Also, it's proper Incredible Hulk at times, isn't it? This man just walking the roads, walking and walking, with all this melancholy music weighing on him and this rampaging untamed beast of a thing that's inside of him just waiting to take over any minute.

But. Brilliant. Fingers crossed it sticks the landing.

non capisco

Quote from: JesusAndYourBush on May 30, 2019, 02:23:03 AM
Presumably next week we'll find out what happened to make him run away.  Bonus points if it's something other than the obvious.

Probably a scary painting in his room or something.

the science eel

Quote from: DukeDeMondo on May 30, 2019, 03:31:53 PM
...so far, for me, it's the best thing Shane Meadows has done since This Is England.

The film, I mean.

It's all amateur hour with him tho', isn't it? Dead Man's Shoes was good, but the rest?

I didn't think he had it in him.

ersatz99

That song over the end credits is terrifying.

gib

Quote from: JesusAndYourBush on May 30, 2019, 02:23:03 AM
At 7pm this evening I watched episode 1 of Chernobyl, so tonights episode of The Virtues came as light relief.

Presumably next week we'll find out what happened to make him run away.  Bonus points if it's something other than the obvious.

It shouldn't be the obvious because they sort of discarded that when he was speaking to the Irish fella.


Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: gib on May 30, 2019, 07:07:49 PM
It shouldn't be the obvious because they sort of discarded that when he was speaking to the Irish fella.
A double bluff perhaps.

Again, riveting stuff, but I'm sticking by my opinion that it's padded out. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that it started as a film script which was rewritten for the telly.

Just an incredible performance.
It's filmed around where I live and drink, in fact, there was a pub until Christmas just gone called The Barrack, where I'm sure they got the name for the fictional one in the show.
His sister's house is 6 doors up from my local and you can see my house in the distant background in some shots.
I have to echo whoever said earlier about how well he plays pissed.

Mobius

Best drunk acting ever, surely. Are we sure he isn't actually muntered in those scenes?

His sister is brilliant as well, losing her shit in the car, flitting between amused and properly livid. 32 quids worth of fooking lipstick!


Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on May 30, 2019, 08:04:33 PM
A double bluff perhaps.

Again, riveting stuff, but I'm sticking by my opinion that it's padded out. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that it started as a film script which was rewritten for the telly.

It probably was a film script, yes, but I'm glad he's turned it into four intensely meandering hours of television. Every episode makes you feel on edge, it lingers with you afterwards. Spending so much time with these characters is a sad, upsetting, queasy experience.


Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Mobius on May 31, 2019, 12:20:48 AM
Best drunk acting ever, surely. Are we sure he isn't actually muntered in those scenes?

His sister is brilliant as well, losing her shit in the car, flitting between amused and properly livid. 32 quids worth of fooking lipstick!

The acting in this is incredible. There's no 'look at me acting' filter, it's entirely natural. Meadows is the true son and heir to Ken Loach.