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The Virtues (new Shane Meadows drama)

Started by Ballad of Ballard Berkley, May 01, 2019, 10:56:50 PM

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Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: DukeDeMondo on May 30, 2019, 03:31:53 PM
I really hope this doesn't collapse with a sad piano clatter in six day's time, because so far, for me, it's the best thing Shane Meadows has done since This Is England.

The film, I mean. And much as I enjoy Le Donk.   

Mesmerising stuff. Hasn't really put a foot wrong since it started. I will say, though, that the shot of the cement mixer mixing cement all slow motion in last night's episode put me on edge. Shane Meadows shouldn't be allowed near the slow motion any more than Stephen Graham's character here should be allowed near the stout.

Weird, isn't it? Shane Meadows is such an intelligent, witty, sensitive filmmaker, you'd think he'd realise that slow-motion coupled with DEREK SAD PIANO is such a hacky trope. Does not compute.

Anyway, I agree. Best thing he's done since This is England.

Rev+

Fuck me that last half hour made me feel ill.  Exhaustingly tense.

As a whole I'd call it the best thing Shane Meadows has done full stop.  Absolutely punishing to watch, but that's kind of how it needed to be.

non capisco

Quote from: Rev+ on June 05, 2019, 11:09:58 PM
As a whole I'd call it the best thing Shane Meadows has done full stop.  Absolutely punishing to watch, but that's kind of how it needed to be.

Agreed. I think it's his masterpiece and obviously a personal exorcism of sorts. A stunning piece of drama. Having now read the Guardian interview elements of Dead Man's Shoes and A Room For Romeo Brass also now feel like dry runs at attempting to translate into narrative his feelings about what happened to him as a child.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: non capisco on June 05, 2019, 11:41:56 PM
Agreed. I think it's his masterpiece and obviously a personal exorcism of sorts. A stunning piece of drama. Having now read the Guardian interview elements of Dead Man's Shoes and A Room For Romeo Brass also now feel like dry runs at attempting to translate into narrative his feelings about what happened to him as a child.

Exactly, yes. He's been building towards this for years. 

the science eel

I wasn't altogether convinced that Meadows had it in him to produce something decent, although the performances have been excellent. But that was like a Christmas Eastenders - heavy-handed goodies-vs-baddies bollocks. A real shame.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley


Bazooka

Brilliant, other than the music bits can do one for me, find it a bit  Gervais Derek piano polarising, also the grainy flashback suff, I know its a Meadow thing, but by the last episode "I get it mate". Great performances, pacing and direction.

Top tier TV.

jobotic

I've only watched up to the point in the first one when he starts getting the drinks in for the strangers. Don't think i can take much more.

Wilbur

Crikey watched this at the weekend. Just have to agree with the praise really. Astonishing stuff from all the cast. Really moving and the photography, soundtrack, the whole thing really are perfect. Cant fault it, story telling at its best. Great stuff.

wooders1978

The only fault I can give is the sisters story arch felt a bit pointless and rushed, I do wonder if he was planning to do two series of 3 episodes each

Waking Life

They refilmed the ending to the Dinah story after they had finished; I presume the original had her forgive the mother, echoing the main storyline. Which I think would have been the better ending. They flagged she could lose her temper violently, but I wasn't sold on her going full murder in that scene, particularly given the adoption issue would have likely been a relatively temporary problem. Not sure if they wanted to avoid an overly 'resolved' ending or hinting that Joseph will clearly break down again (the hanging might have done that anyway).

thugler

Surely they'll have to do another series. Wondered where the husband had gone as that wasn't resolved at all. Amazing performances.

bgmnts

If he says gimme ya pud pud at any point i'll watch it.

Moribunderast

Just finished this. Impeccable, really. As has been noted, the acting was superb across the board. The performances along with the semi-improvised dialogue and Meadows' ability to realise very recognisable moments and settings lent the whole thing a remarkable authenticity. The stage for unbearable tension was set with that pub scene in episode 1 and it permeates throughout the rest of the series. I've loved This Is England (including the series) and Dead Man's Shoes but this feels like possibly Meadows' best work. I find it hard to fault anything, personally. I will say I found the main three "events" of the finale to be very predictable (Old mate's suicide, Joe forgiving his rapist and Dinah killing her mother) but I didn't have any real issue with that as they all were well-seeded and felt appropriate.

Quote from: Waking Life on June 11, 2019, 04:57:38 AM
They refilmed the ending to the Dinah story after they had finished; I presume the original had her forgive the mother, echoing the main storyline. Which I think would have been the better ending. They flagged she could lose her temper violently, but I wasn't sold on her going full murder in that scene, particularly given the adoption issue would have likely been a relatively temporary problem. Not sure if they wanted to avoid an overly 'resolved' ending or hinting that Joseph will clearly break down again (the hanging might have done that anyway).

I felt the Dinah thing was almost an inevitability from the moment she had the meeting regarding her kid and it only felt more so with each phone call her brother refused to answer. It was someone on the verge of giving up, desperately reaching out to one person to stop her and pretty clearly resolving herself to her decision when that person wasn't around. I also thought it worked as a contrast to Joe's story - him actually achieving a moment of redemption and forgiveness (however brief, given the events that unfold unbeknownst to him at the same time would almost certainly cause a relapse) and being somewhat saved by his family while Dinah was doomed by hers. It was fucking horrible watching all of Dinah's scenes in the finale, knowing where it was all likely headed.

I think this one will stick with me for a while. Chernobyl's next on the docket but I think I might have to sandwich in something beforehand that isn't completely grim and despairing.

peanutbutter

Thought that was good but it failed on the ending. Not sure how it would've succeeded though tbh, don't think Meadows has it in him to find a viable resolution for a character like the old Catholic woman.

I'd type more but I can't be bothered with figuring out spoiler tags right now

the science eel

He should have had every single main figure stand in line at the end and make as if they're about to take a bow. then all spontaneously combust.

That would have been fucking amazing. People would have been talking about it for years.


Twit 2

Just finished this. Incredible. I think it would be impossible to better this level of naturalistic acting. The writing and performances were immaculate, full of nuance and pathos. A lifetime's reflection and craft went into this; if it was easy to pull it off every drama would be like this, but there's hardly anything of this quality because it's ridiculously accomplished to the point of it looking easy. Graham puts most actors to shame. I really liked the performance of the flasher as well. Writing wise, the scene where he confronts his abuser was immense.

Beautifully filmed and scored too. An embarrassment of riches.

neveragain


JesusAndYourBush

Quote from: peanutbutter on June 13, 2019, 08:00:44 PM
Thought that was good but it failed on the ending. Not sure how it would've succeeded though tbh

I thought the same.  The abuse angle was too obvious, although slight twist that it wasn't at the hands of a carer or priest.  Perhaps if they'd had him witness a backstreet abortion taking place, something like that.  Can't fault the acting though, which was excellent.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: JesusAndYourBush on June 19, 2019, 02:35:16 AM
I thought the same.  The abuse angle was too obvious, although slight twist that it wasn't at the hands of a carer or priest.

It's based on something that actually happened. Shane Meadows was raped by two teenage brothers when he was a child.

Quote from: JesusAndYourBush on June 19, 2019, 02:35:16 AM
Perhaps if they'd had him witness a backstreet abortion taking place, something like that.

What?

JesusAndYourBush

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on June 19, 2019, 10:12:23 AM
What?

Because all the way through you're assuming the character suffered some sort of sexual abuse... and when you get to the end... oh, you were right. Boring.  So how about have it so he didn't suffer from any sort of physical attack on his person but have him witness something awful that'd fuck him up just as much.  It'd be a better twist and one the viewer wouldn't guess.



Moribunderast

I wasn't under the impression the abuse was meant to be a "twist". It felt like a grim inevitability and you were just waiting for him to accept (or remember) what happened to him as a kid.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Moribunderast on June 19, 2019, 12:29:14 PM
I wasn't under the impression the abuse was meant to be a "twist". It felt like a grim inevitability and you were just waiting for him to accept (or remember) what happened to him as a kid.

Exactly. Meadows made it pretty clear in episode two that Joseph had experienced some form of sexual abuse. That was a deliberate choice. Presenting what happened to Joseph - and Meadows in real life - as a shocking twist would've been really crass and insensitive.

JesusAndYourBush

Quote from: Moribunderast on June 19, 2019, 12:29:14 PM
I wasn't under the impression the abuse was meant to be a "twist". It felt like a grim inevitability and you were just waiting for him to accept (or remember) what happened to him as a kid.

I probably used the wrong word.  I only meant that when you're watching a TV programme you can't help thinking ahead, trying to figure out what the outcome might be... and it'd have been better if the outcome had been anything other than the obvious.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

It would've been better if aliens did it.

sevendaughters