10 Musicians You Don't Like From The 60s?

[Petey Pate]

I also get the impression he treated Beefheart and the other musicians he worked with like his own private freakshow, "Come see my collection of weirdos, kids!"

I found out recently that none of the members of The Magic Band besides Beefheart received any money for the Trout Mask Replica sessions, as Zappa had signed the Captain as a solo artist to his label. He may have assumed that Beefheart would pay his band, but there was no legal obligation to, as the contract was in Beefheart's name only. This also meant that none of the musicians who spent a gruelling nine months locked away in a house rehearsing the album (and trying to interpret Beefheart's nonsensical musical direction) received any royalties over the years, though the Zappa Family Trust did ensure that they received something for the most recent reissue of the album.

So Beefheart could be as much as a cunt as Zappa, though FWIW Frank did pay his band members a weekly salary.

[SteveDave]

This also meant that none of the musicians who spent a gruelling nine months locked away in a house rehearsing the album (and trying to interpret Beefheart's nonsensical musical direction) received any royalties over the years

I still believe this to be peanut juice. I do believe the whole LP was recorded in 6 hours (or however long) though.

[Petey Pate]

It's completely true. Read John French's (a.k.a 'Drumbo') book about his time in the band if you have any doubts.



I've not read Zoot Horn Rollo's book but I'm sure it corroborates French's account of the creation of Trout Mask Replica.

[Howj Begg]

^ I unfriended Drumbo on facebook after he started posting a load of Trumpy bullshit on his wall. So that's one 60s musician I no longer like.

[the science eel]

^ I was about to say the same thing!

The book is exhaustive and will probably destroy a lot of the myths you might want to keep as myths. And CB doesn't come out of it too well. But it's mostly a fascinating read.

(about the book)

(but agree with the post above, too - and there are lengthy passages in the book where Drumbo blathers on about religion - a bit TOO much if you ask me)

[Petey Pate]

^ I unfriended Drumbo on facebook after he started posting a load of Trumpy bullshit on his wall. So that's one 60s musician I no longer like.

That's disappointing. I only followed The Magic Band page which he moderates, which is thankfully kept apolitical, and secular for that matter.

[Absorb the anus burn]

Dave Clark of The Dave Clark Five.

Some awful stories concerning the treatment of his bandmates.

[SteveDave]

It's completely true. Read John French's (a.k.a 'Drumbo') book about his time in the band if you have any doubts.

I tried but books can lie. Have you ever read the Bible? Yeah? Think about it!

[Epic Bisto]

^ I was about to say the same thing!

The book is exhaustive and will probably destroy a lot of the myths you might want to keep as myths. And CB doesn't come out of it too well. But it's mostly a fascinating read.

(about the book)

(but agree with the post above, too - and there are lengthy passages in the book where Drumbo blathers on about religion - a bit TOO much if you ask me)

Add me to the 'unfriending Drumbo' list.  Aside from the Trump stuff, it's rather sad that the last 20 odd years of his life is simply him turning into his violently abusive and highly manipulative ex-boss.  An amazing drummer but boy is the lad simple*

For the poster above who talked about Zoot Horn Rollo's book: he hints at some of the dark stuff, but Drumbo's book goes into the whole sordid story.  Even poor Jeff Cotton's recent interview seemed to keep going back to him describing how Beefheart would take him into the bathroom, and turn on the taps to hide the verbal abuse designed to break his spirit.

*the most unintentionally hilarious part mentioned the 1975 tour (not the exact words): "Don, can I get my wages now?" "I'll do it later--but check out these new leather shoes.  They were only 50p!" "Okay. They are nice shoes." [RECEIVES $50 MONTHS LATER]

[Epic Bisto]

Bob Markley, Kim Fowley and Jess Conrad are definitely at the top of the list, with Roger Daltrey shouting "watch yer backs!" right behind them.  I'll add Stephen Stills to the list: a puffed up intimidating egomaniac, he was a little shit to Neil Young during the Buffalo Springfield years, and this is all before the coked out "CAREFUL MATE I WAS IN NAM MATE!" shenanigans in the next decade.  Stills was essentially a folk-rock Legend Gary.

[Sin Agog]

That West Coast Pop Art album A Child's Guide to Good & Evil is so damned good.  I mean the very first song is called 'Eighteen Is Over the Hill' so there's no avoiding what we're dealing with here, but it's such a tuneful, melancholic thing.  With Michael Jackson the songs aren't actually nakedly about his depravity so I can understand uncancelling him for your ears only, but Markley's muddy paw prints are all over every one of those songs, and yet I do kind of love that record anyway.  The next one, Where's My Daddy?  Yeah, that's too fucked up even for me.

EDIT: Relistening to it now.  There is a fair bit of filler, but weirdly it's the more creepy songs on the album that are the most solid.

[the science eel]

That West Coast Pop Art album A Child's Guide to Good & Evil is so damned good.  I mean the very first song is called 'Eighteen Is Over the Hill' so there's no avoiding what we're dealing with here, but it's such a tuneful, melancholic thing. 

It's amazing. Easily the best thing they did, and one of the best 'second-tier' US psych albums of the time.

And yeah, that track - might be the best thing there. Totally fucked-up, but musically just wonderful.

[the science eel]

'Ritual #1' !

[Absorb the anus burn]

PJ Proby....(AKA Anal Proby) #CANCELLED

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/pj-probys-entire-tour-cancelled-14203480

[a duncandisorderly]

I'm not even a Clapton fan, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt here. Nice of me, I know.

I've read his book. his book, not some third-party hatchet job, mind. you'd take that benefit right back if you read it too. he's a shit.

while we're at it, jimmy page too. I'm just hoping that nothing unsavoury emerges about jeff beck, rory gallagher or robin trower.

[Sin Agog]

It's amazing. Easily the best thing they did, and one of the best 'second-tier' US psych albums of the time.

And yeah, that track - might be the best thing there. Totally fucked-up, but musically just wonderful.

I wonder if Watch Yourself would have been a minor hit if it had been made by another band.  Although even that- 'you had better watch yourself when you're around her'- is probably about Markley being tempted by some wily nymphette.  Goddamnit.

[SteveDave]

That West Coast Pop Art album A Child's Guide to Good & Evil is so damned good.  I mean the very first song is called 'Eighteen Is Over the Hill' so there's no avoiding what we're dealing with here, but it's such a tuneful, melancholic thing.  With Michael Jackson the songs aren't actually nakedly about his depravity so I can understand uncancelling him for your ears only, but Markley's muddy paw prints are all over every one of those songs, and yet I do kind of love that record anyway.  The next one, Where's My Daddy?  Yeah, that's too fucked up even for me.

EDIT: Relistening to it now.  There is a fair bit of filler, but weirdly it's the more creepy songs on the album that are the most solid.

Not to mention most of "A Group" by Markley

Elegant Ellen hardly eleven

She's inexperienced and won't lie to anyone, Not old enough to act old enough automatically

V.D, the flu, nude girls in showers with your father

And the whole lyrics to "Sweet Lady Eleven" that someone's kindly written out (with annotations) here:

https://lyrics.fandom.com/wiki/The_West_Coast_Pop_Art_Experimental_Band:Sweet_Lady_Eleven

[holyzombiejesus]

And the whole lyrics to "Sweet Lady Eleven" that someone's kindly written out (with annotations) here:

https://lyrics.fandom.com/wiki/The_West_Coast_Pop_Art_Experimental_Band:Sweet_Lady_Eleven

(General child-raping sounds)

[SteveDave]

I wonder if Watch Yourself would have been a minor hit if it had been made by another band.  Although even that- 'you had better watch yourself when you're around her'- is probably about Markley being tempted by some wily nymphette.  Goddamnit.

I'm almost positive Noel Gallagher ripped "Watch Yourself" off for "Freaky Teeth". I can't imagine him listening to WCPAEB though.

[a duncandisorderly]

"(General child-raping sounds)"

fuck's sake. but no, I still haven't forgiven jimmy page, david bowie or any of the rest of them for going after twelve year olds instead of grown-up women.

[Sin Agog]

I'm almost positive Noel Gallagher ripped "Watch Yourself" off for "Freaky Teeth". I can't imagine him listening to WCPAEB though.

I dunno.  I remember when he did a radio show with Matt Morgan, he played all these old bangers by Jacqueline Taieb and I think even something from White Noise's An Electric Storm.  Seems perfectly possible that he paid homage to WCPAEB by looting them blind.

[a duncandisorderly]

I dunno.  I remember when he did a radio show with Matt Morgan, he played all these old bangers by Jacqueline Taieb and I think even something from White Noise's An Electric Storm.  Seems perfectly possible that he paid homage to WCPAEB by looting them blind.

really? white noise? I think someone must've primed him, then- I can't imagine nog listening to that of his own volition. mind you, I did almost buy a VCS3 from johnny roadhouse that had been left there for sale by bonehead... he withdrew it when someone told them what it was really worth (i.e. more than the six grand I was expecting to get it for).

[Sin Agog]

I think he mentioned that he employs a young lad to make playlists for him, so you're right.

[holyzombiejesus]

Apparently Noel 'bought' Epic Soundtracks' legendary record collection after Epic died. Unfortunately, he'd written the cheque out wrong so it was returned to him with a request that a new one be sent (Epic's family were supposed to be getting the money) but Noel never bothered getting back to them so the collection was broken up. 

[Sin Agog]

HZJ, you know of Epic and Nikki Sudden's post-Swell Maps bleary rock revival band, Jacobites?  I'd never heard that about his record collection before, but now that you mention it I think they must have been quite a big influence on Noel 'n' all.  Although I prefer Robespierre's Velvet Basement to anything Oasis ever put out. Underrated band.  Even nicked a 30-second sample off one of their songs as the ident for a podcast I used to do.

[holyzombiejesus]

HZJ, you know of Epic and Nikki Sudden's post-Swell Maps bleary rock revival band, Jacobites?  I'd never heard that about his record collection before, but now that you mention it I think they must have been quite a big influence on Noel 'n' all.  Although I prefer Robespierre's Velvet Basement to anything Oasis ever put out. Underrated band.  Even nicked a 30-second sample off one of their songs as the ident for a podcast I used to do.

I know of but haven't ever heard anything. I've heard very little Nikki Sudden too, generally because I was completely put off by the name and look. In fact, I posted the following in the Silly Little Things That Mean You Won't Like A Band thread...

Won't contemplate even listening to Dave Kusworth because of his boring name. Won't listen to Nikki Sudden (despite loving other similar/ related stuff) because of his stupid name. Am generally loathe to listen to anything by an artist named '[name] & the [things]'. Reeks of horrible authenticity and balding Lovejoys raising a dram to their heroes.

Is there anything you'd recommend?

[Sin Agog]

Heh, weird coincidence.  Provided you can get past the fact that it's made by a couple of Noel Fielding-haired chancers with delusions of Rolling Stonedom, that album I mentioned has some excellent jangly songwriting.  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=azC86BClCVE

(Should probably avoid it though if you don't want to devalue your word).

[holyzombiejesus]

Nah, I'm happy to have my word devalued if it means I get a load of decent new records to play. Will check that out.