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Danny Baker. #CANCELLED.

Started by king_tubby, May 08, 2019, 08:40:40 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Josef K

I don't think he should've been fired but how can someone who's worked in broadcasting as long as him not be aware of the racist history of monkey comparisons?

Also, his apology was *terrible*

Cuellar

Quote from: Funcrusher on May 09, 2019, 11:15:12 AM
And he has realised for his oversight and apologised. What else can he do?

Indeed. I've never said he should be sacked for this.

Quote from: Jumblegraws on May 09, 2019, 11:08:46 AM


I don't see how you can accept that a lot of people are rightly sensitive about racism but complain when they respond accordingly to something like this.


No room for nuance then? Is it 'responding accordingly' to disbelieve that it was unintentional and to not accept an apology?
We all know that racism is bad but do we have to insist that every tenuous example of it comes straight from the bowels of the devil himself?

Cuellar

Quote from: Josef K on May 09, 2019, 11:17:04 AM
I don't think he should've been fired but how can someone who's worked in broadcasting as long as him not be aware of the racist history of monkey comparisons?

Also, his apology was *terrible*

Especially considering there was a high profile example of it in the world of football not 2 months ago, which sparked a long debate in the media about how to handle racist abuse from fans.

Jumblegraws

Quote from: Funcrusher on May 09, 2019, 11:12:13 AM
Danny Baker is not a racist and has inadvertently made a mistake. What is achieved by pillorying him? He apologised very fully and deleted the tweet ASAP, If you oppose racism your opponents are racists. If you're a posturing virtue signaller your opposition is potentially everyone.
I don't personally think there was much wisdom in sacking him over this. Like I said earlier in the thread, intent is only one component of how people will be judging his actions, there's also impact. I'm not really in a position to gauge how harm caused by images that evoke - intentionally or otherwise - this particular racist trope or how reckless DB has been. I suspect neither are you, so maybe dial back your "posturing virtue signaller" assumptions for a change?

Danger Man

Quote from: Josef K on May 09, 2019, 11:17:04 AM
Also, his apology was *terrible*

Exactly.

"Sorry my gag pic of the little fella in the posh outfit has whipped some up. Never occurred to me because, well, mind not diseased,"

"Sincere apologies for the stupid unthinking gag pic earlier. Was supposed to be joke about royals vs circus animals in posh clothes but interpreted as about monkeys & race, so rightly deleted. Royal watching not my forte. Also, guessing it was my turn in the barrel."


He couldn't just apologise, could he? The charmless man.

Josef K

Absolutely! The 'mind not diseased' part is nearly as bad as the initial joke - completely puts the responsibility on people of colour who are pissed off with it, rather than himself
'Oh you're seeing racism in my portrayal of a mixed race baby as a monkey? Your mind is so diseased!!!'

Autopsy Turvey

Quote from: Utter Shit on May 09, 2019, 11:12:04 AM
Christ almighty it isn't fucking rubbish. Educate yourself.

It is utter shit mate. These tedious people have trained themselves to see a picture of a monkey and react as if it can only be a racist hate campaign, because what, black/minority ethnic/mixed race/peoples of colour all look like monkeys? That's their go-to association for monkey whimsy? That's a deeply twisted way of seeing the world, and I'd be amazed if any of the HURR DURR smartphone-bashing pricks and cunts feigning offence at this have a very happy life.

buntyman

Surely no one thinks Danny baker is claiming not to know about the racist use of monkey imagery. Silly monkey pictures can be funny in a non racist way too.  Only after this outrage was it highlighted to me that the royal baby is mixed race as I also don't follow the royal family very closely.

Jumblegraws

Quote from: solidified gruel merchant on May 09, 2019, 11:18:29 AM
No room for nuance then? Is it 'responding accordingly' to disbelieve that it was unintentional and to not accept an apology?
We all know that racism is bad but do we have to insist that every tenuous example of it comes straight from the bowels of the devil himself?
Your take seems to be "there was no racist intent, end of", so I'm not sure I'm the one disregarding nuance here. I don't know what it feels like to have had racist monkey jibes thrown at me, so I can't say with any authority that any particular individual has responded disproportionately.

Funcrusher

Quote from: Utter Shit on May 09, 2019, 11:16:30 AM
Learn to read as part of educating yourself, I have literally already said that it is "much more likely to have been ridiculously stupid misjudgement rather than deliberate racism".

I've said plenty of idiotic stuff over the years, but I've never been stupid enough to accidentally make myself appear racist, or to feign ignorance towards one of the most famous racist tropes.

So is it a misjudgement or is he feigning?

I seem to recall calling you a cunt when you were effectively calling Fry a reverse racist for bemoaning white racism. You have a track record of idiocy for sure.

Icehaven

I was watching an episode of Friends on Netflix recently where Joey and Ross both start dating the same girl. Joey ends up hijacking Ross's date with her and although they pretend to her that they don't know each other, they get into a slanging match hurling insults at each other which makes it obvious that they do. It culminates when Joey roars ''Monkey lover!!" at Ross (a reference to the fact Ross had a pet monkey for a while) at which point they both look round and realise the girl, who was black, has gone. It's from a later series so was probably made/written in 2000-2004 or thereabouts but it still struck me as amazing that no one involved either noticed or thought it could be a bit too close to the bone, or that it wasn't intentional. Or am I just looking at it with 2019 eyes (well 2 eyes in 2019, but you know what I mean).

Funcrusher

Quote from: Jumblegraws on May 09, 2019, 11:27:57 AM
Your take seems to be "there was no racist intent, end of", so I'm not sure I'm the one disregarding nuance here. I don't know what it feels like to have had racist monkey jibes thrown at me, so I can't say with any authority that any particular individual has responded disproportionately.

You can't really say anything about the matter with authority then, but are doing so nevertheless, as is the way on here.

Jumblegraws

Quote from: Funcrusher on May 09, 2019, 11:29:33 AM
You can't really say anything about the matter with authority then, but are doing so nevertheless, as is the way on here.
No, I'm just making the assumption at the outset that whilst the tweet didn't get me particularly animated, people who are claiming to have been hurt by it and who think DB was reckless in posting it are being sincere and have good reason to feel this way as a matter of life experience.

Norton Canes

Farage is going to weigh in on this Baker thing on QT tonight, isn't he.

idunnosomename

hope this important issue is brought up on Question Time

EDIT I DONT  BELIEVE IT!!!!

gilbertharding

Just wait until the animal rights people get wind of all this.

Funcrusher

Quote from: Jumblegraws on May 09, 2019, 11:33:51 AM
No, I'm just making the assumption at the outset that whilst the tweet didn't get me particularly animated, people who are claiming to have been hurt by it and who think DB was reckless in posting it are being sincere and have good reason to feel this way as a matter of life experience.

I think your assumption about people on the internet is fairly ridiculous.

chveik

Quote from: Funcrusher on May 09, 2019, 11:29:33 AM
You can't really say anything about the matter with authority then, but are doing so nevertheless, as is the way on here.

"on here"

Buelligan

Hey everybody - be on your guard against outrage - friendly warning there.

I've already said what I think about Baker not understanding the monkey trope.  I would just add that the BBC may feel the need to make a point from the outset. 

There has been a fairly well-documented history of British media hunting royals, sometimes to the death.  It may be that the BBC are trying to flag up that hunting season is closed for this little one, at least until he is old enough to run away. 

Danger Man

Having found my DB quotes on the Guardian website I moved on to read Barney Roney's report about Ajax Spurs.....

QuoteAnd, freeze that moment. As the ball bounced back out of the netting behind André Onana the white shapes wilted and stretched out across the grass. A knot of bodies gathered in the far corner. A strange kind of stillness spread around those huge clanky iron stands. From up in the gods there was something else, a gathering hiss of joy from the travelling Tottenham support.

Ajax claim to have a long history as a Jewish club and away fans often hiss to mimic the sound of the gas chambers.


CANCEL BARNEY RONEY NOW

notjosh

Quote from: Paulie Walnuts on May 09, 2019, 06:59:32 AM
Exactly, anyone who has followed Baker down the years knows he has a minor obsession with monkeys dressed as humans (or famous people, as the bit goes)

A cursory twitter search backs this up:
https://twitter.com/prodnose/status/376757458502307840

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. 'Racist trope' is not my go-to association with monkeys in clothes, and frankly I'd forgotten that Meghan Markle was mixed race. It wouldn't be at the forefront of my mind even if I did know.

Jumblegraws

Quote from: Funcrusher on May 09, 2019, 11:36:51 AM
I think your assumption about people on the internet is fairly ridiculous.
There surely are people who are more interested in appearing righteous than about countering social ills that have jumped on this. They might even outnumber people who are responding angrily as a matter of sincerity and personal experience. But the existence of the former doesn't invalidate the views of the latter. And frankly, neither group is culpable for executive decisions taken by the BBC.

Petey Pate

He should have tweeted a photo of a baby lizard instead. Or if the reference to the reptilian bloodline conspiracy theory is too antisemitic for some, then a baby cockroach or any other kind of parasitic animal.

king_tubby

Quote from: Danger Man on May 09, 2019, 11:39:28 AM
CANCEL BARNEY RONEY NOW

Fully on board with this, to be honest.

Utter Shit

Quote from: Funcrusher on May 09, 2019, 11:28:13 AM
So is it a misjudgement or is he feigning?

In my opinion it was a misjudgement, that's why he deleted it when people pointed out the implications. He hasn't feigned anything - once he realised, he accepted that it had obvious connotations. That's why he used words like "Enormous mistake", "Grotesque", "Alerted to circs. Appalled. Deleted. Apologised.", "Sincere apologies for the stupid unthinking gag pic earlier.", "rightly deleted". He was aware of the connotations, he just didn't think of them in that situation for whatever mad reason.

QuoteI seem to recall calling you a cunt when you were effectively calling Fry a reverse racist for bemoaning white racism. You have a track record of idiocy for sure.

Congratulations on calling me a cunt. I don't remember this incident you're talking about, and would imagine given my opinions on this sort of thing that that is either a lie or a manipulation of the truth to suit your needs at this time. Feel free to dig it up and prove me wrong, perhaps I decided to be a racist that day.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Funcrusher on May 09, 2019, 10:48:16 AM
Hope this happens to a few more CAB favourites. It might be instructive.

Of nominative determinism?

gilbertharding

I think among my favourite people on the internet used to be the racists who never fail to abuse Stan Collymore for hitting Ulrika Johnson or going dogging, no matter what he was actually talking about.

Old Thrashbarg

I don't think anyone, certainly not Baker himself, is claiming that he wasn't aware of the 'monkey = black person' racist trope. Just that he didn't consider it when finding a funny picture of a monkey in a suit.

For a long time he had a segment on his most recent BBC show called "Monkeys Dressed As Famous People, Plus Fairground Music" that involved some fairground music playing in the background while he listed the names of some famous people, who the listener was supposed to imagine a monkey dressed as. It was as shit as it sounds, but was harmless whimsy. And at some point I imagine the 'famous people' would have included someone of a different ethnicity, which no-one (as far as I know) batted an eyelid at. This tweet was essentially the same thing.

Utter Shit

#179
Interesting point on the hypocrisy of the BBC. Alan Sugar wasn't sacked over this, which is much more clear cut in terms of the point he was making.



EDIT: Someone remind me how to make pictures less ridiculously massive.