Danny Baker. #CANCELLED.

[Danger Man]

Interesting point on the hypocrisy of the BBC. Alan Sugar wasn't sacked over this, which is much more clear cut in terms of the point he was making.



EDIT: Someone remind me how to make pictures less ridiculously massive.

type 'width=400' after 'img' at the start. 

[Josef K]

I don't think anyone, certainly not Baker himself, is claiming that he wasn't aware of the 'monkey = black person' racist trope. Just that he didn't consider it when finding a funny picture of a monkey in a suit.

For a long time he had a segment on his most recent BBC show called "Monkeys Dressed As Famous People, Plus Fairground Music" that involved some fairground music playing in the background while he listed the names of some famous people, who the listener was supposed to imagine a monkey dressed as. It was as shit as it sounds, but was harmless whimsy. And at some point I imagine the 'famous people' would have included someone of a different ethnicity, which no-one (as far as I know) batted an eyelid at. This tweet was essentially the same thing.

He should've been aware of how it looks when a person (baby) of colour is the subject of it. Puppet imagery is a standard trope in political cartoons but any half decent cartoonist should know that it's also been used in anti-semitic imagery and that they should reconsider using it about a Jewish political figure. Same applies here.

Like I said earlier in the thread, I disagree with his firing, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect highly paid broadcasters to have a basic awareness of some of the most well known racist tropes.

[idunnosomename]

his bantery apology was just awful though

NO IT ISNT FUCK PINTREST

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-mendi-the-gentleman-chimp_n_4220823?guccounter=1

[madhair60]

It is up there with the worst apologies ever.

[Huxleys Babkins]

He should've been aware of how it looks when a person (baby) of colour is the subject of it. Puppet imagery is a standard trope in political cartoons but any half decent cartoonist should know that it's also been used in anti-semitic imagery and that they should reconsider using it about a Jewish political figure. Same applies here.

Like I said earlier in the thread, I disagree with his firing, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect highly paid broadcasters to have a basic awareness of some of the most well known racist tropes.

The worst thing is that Baker lives and breathes football. He knows the connection very well. What the fuck was he thinking?

[Utter Shit]

type 'width=400' after 'img' at the start. 

Cheers!

[Bennett Brauer]

I don't think anyone, certainly not Baker himself, is claiming that he wasn't aware of the 'monkey = black person' racist trope. Just that he didn't consider it when finding a funny picture of a monkey in a suit.

For a long time he had a segment on his most recent BBC show called "Monkeys Dressed As Famous People, Plus Fairground Music" that involved some fairground music playing in the background while he listed the names of some famous people, who the listener was supposed to imagine a monkey dressed as. It was as shit as it sounds, but was harmless whimsy. And at some point I imagine the 'famous people' would have included someone of a different ethnicity, which no-one (as far as I know) batted an eyelid at. This tweet was essentially the same thing.

Exactly. The implication didn't cross his mind in his usual white heat of looking for funny ideas to tweet while having a fair old bit to drink, something he does almost every evening. Thoughtless yes, but typical of him.

I'd be amazed if the subject was allowed to come up on QT tonight, and I doubt Farage would defend the vociferous Corbyn-supporting Baker even if it did.

[buntyman]

So Danny baker is claiming he actually thought that photo was of Prince Harry and Megan with their newborn baby? How stupid does he think we are? The sooner this racist's widows are panned in the better

[Huxleys Babkins]

I'd be amazed if the subject was allowed to come up on QT tonight, and I doubt Farage would defend the vociferous Corbyn-supporting Baker even if it did.

No, he'd use it as evidence that it's the lefty liberal media class who are, in fact, the true fascists.

[poodlefaker]

For a long time he had a segment on his most recent BBC show called "Monkeys Dressed As Famous People, Plus Fairground Music" that involved some fairground music playing in the background while he listed the names of some famous people, who the listener was supposed to imagine a monkey dressed as

I've never heard this but it's exactly the kind of unfunny-idea-flogged-to-death I always associate with Danny Baker. TFI Friday was full of this shit.

[biggytitbo]

That's absolutely ludicrous.

ChalkSign me up as another who didn't make any such link between a monkey and a mixed-race child until it was pointed out, I'm in the "it says more about those who DO see the connection" camp.

I don't think it matters whether you can see the connection or not, even the most cursory overview of the incident its abundantly clear Baker didn't see the connection and it was totally accidental. He accidentally posted something some people regard as racist in the same way someone might accidentally trip on a loose curb stone.

[idunnosomename]

I've never heard this but it's exactly the kind of unfunny-idea-flogged-to-death I always associate with Danny Baker. TFI Friday was full of this shit.

You come from
A far-off star
You're a fat alien
Ha ha ha

[Beagle 2]

Is "person of colour" now a widely accepted term in the UK? I worked in equality five years ago or so, and that - obviously an American term - was strongly resisted by black colleagues particularly as something we should be using, but I've seen it being used more and more. It seems patronising and othering to me.

[Utter Shit]

I don't think it matters whether you can see the connection or not, even the most cursory overview of the incident its abundantly clear Baker didn't see the connection and it was totally accidental. He accidentally posted something some people regard as racist in the same way someone might accidentally trip on a loose curb stone.

If that loose curb stone was famous for having people tripping over it, to the point that it was reasonable to expect people to avoid it.

[Danger Man]

Is "person of colour" now a widely accepted term in the UK?

No.  But who knows what the future will be?

[Jumblegraws]

I don't think it matters whether you can see the connection or not, even the most cursory overview of the incident its abundantly clear Baker didn't see the connection and it was totally accidental. He accidentally posted something some people regard as racist in the same way someone might accidentally trip on a loose curb stone.

Save your shit analogies for the Brexit threads

[Josef K]

Is "person of colour" now a widely accepted term in the UK? I worked in equality five years ago or so, and that - obviously an American term - was strongly resisted by black colleagues particularly as something we should be using, but I've seen it being used more and more. It seems patronising and othering to me.

Generally see a split between POC and BAME from POC/BAME I follow on Twitter. I don't think I've ever seen a pushback against either term though.

[Uncle TechTip]

The worst thing is that Baker lives and breathes football. He knows the connection very well. What the fuck was he thinking?

I don't think that's true at all anymore. Armchair fan, no more.

That's not to say, he shouldn't have been more alive to the connection.

A crass mistake, made in the blink of an eye. So sad that it must come to this. There can't be any going back now, he's been fired by the BBC three times.

Has there been any clamour to get him off the airwaves? Would there have been much opposition if they just issued a statement accepting the apology, it would be forgotten by tomorrow? Especially in light of that Sugar tweet. Funny as I was listening to the story on the recent lineker Baker podcast about how Sugar nearly had Dan arrested for getting Spurs fans to boycott the club shop.

[Buelligan]

If that loose curb stone was famous for having people tripping over it, to the point that it was reasonable to expect people to avoid it.

Indeed.  And the "circus animals" thing.

I can well believe many people looked at the original photo and it took them a moment or two or even someone else explaining it to them to get to the racist football trope.  That's a complete given.

Now, how many people looked at that photograph and got to oh yeah, "circus animals", Baker's making another of his clever oblique socio-political observations about Britain's modern relationship with the monarchy.  Give me a fucking break.  Or is he really that bad?

[Beagle 2]

It would have blown over possibly even by now if they hadn't thrown him under a bus. They wanted rid.

Aw, no Dannny Baker podcast next week! All those topics left hanging. Will Lineker sack him off as well?

[Ambient Sheep]

(This has been slightly overtaken by other posts made while I was offline for an hour or so, but posting anyway.)

What does it say about black or mixed-race people who have been on the receiving end of 'monkey' jibes?

Good point.  I guess they do have a right to be offended but I -- perhaps erroneously -- assumed that it wasn't them that was kicking up the fuss.

Anyone who isn't aware of that racist connection needs to have a word with themselves.

I mean, I'm not totally unaware of it, but I really have to think hard to make it.  It's absolutely not the first thing that comes to my mind.  I just see a "funny" monkey pic... quite a few parents call their kids "cheeky little monkeys" (which personally I hate but hey-ho).

Maybe it's not a connection I readily make because I don't watch football regularly?... and to follow on from Cuellar's and Danger Man's points, probably because I'm neither black nor mixed-race.

Perhaps mixed-race people are so marginalised that nobody thinks they can be offended by things.

I guess I need to check my privilege.


Thing is it's so bloody nonsensical... if it was intended to be racist then why isn't the mother a monkey too?!

[Ambient Sheep]

These tedious people have trained themselves to see a picture of a monkey and react as if it can only be a racist hate campaign, because what, black/minority ethnic/mixed race/peoples of colour all look like monkeys? That's their go-to association for monkey whimsy? That's a deeply twisted way of seeing the world, and I'd be amazed if any of the HURR DURR smartphone-bashing pricks and cunts feigning offence at this have a very happy life.

Yeah this... this is what I was trying to say.

Excluding black and mixed-race people who have actually been affected by such awful shit -- they have every right to be offended, although I'd hope they'd realise that in this case it was almost certainly inadvertent.

[Buelligan]

Thing is it's so bloody nonsensical... if it was intended to be racist then why isn't the mother a monkey too?!

If it was intended to be racist, perhaps he couldn't find an old picture of a mother and baby with a human "father".

Yeah this... this is what I was trying to say.

Excluding black and mixed-race people who have actually been affected by such awful shit -- they have every right to be offended, although I'd hope they'd realise that in this case it was almost certainly inadvertent.

Martin Niemöller weeps into his fist.

[thecuriousorange]

Limmy has declared him cancelled.

[Ambient Sheep]

Martin Niemöller weeps into his fist.

Oh ffs, I'm not talking about people who are doing this from a good place...

[Buelligan]

What do you mean then? 

Do you mean that one race can care about the abuse of another if they can show their hearts are pure but at the same time, people in general can fuck about all over other people's feelings as long as they're too stupid or drunk to know what they're doing?

[phantom_power]

These claims about performative outrage rely on circular reasoning. How are you able to divine so confidently when people are being disingenuous? You can quite easily make a case that there was no racist intent here, can't you just do that instead of making assumptions about other people's sincerity?

OK so it is either performative outrage or being out for blood regardless of explanation or apology. I am not sure which is worse

[phantom_power]

What tweet?

I thought that must have been a tweet you were quoting because I can't believe someone would say that otherwise

[chveik]

What do you mean then? 

Do you mean that one race can care about the abuse of another if they can show their hearts are pure but at the same time, people in general can fuck about all over other people's feelings as long as they're too stupid or drunk to know what they're doing?

you should know better then. "race" is the ultimate racist word.

[Dex Sawash]

You can't even call a mixed race baby a money these days! Fiscal correctness gone mad!

Corrected that for you