Star Trek - Picard show

[Malcy]

Really impressed by that. Looked great as well. Usually I'd watch Discovery and have an ever growing list of problems with it. Only had one with Picard and that was the Irish Romulan who needs to pick an accent and stick with it.

Also lots of little callbacks to TNG including an interesting one to 'Measure Of A Man'. One thing I've been wondering since watching the Children Of Mars Short Trek and reading the prequel comic is if a certain character survived the attack on Utopia Planitia. Hoping it gets addressed in the series or the final issue which oddly, like the prequel book comes out when the series is airing and not before.

I think the weeks in between episodes are going to be long! I downloaded it Thursday morning but held off and just made do with First Contact & Nemesis until it went on Prime and I could enjoy it on the big TV with headphones.

[Ambient Sheep]

What do I need to have watched before seeing this?  I've not seen anything since Insurrection and about half a season of Enterprise (pretty much everything before that, though).

So Nemesis, the entire Kelvin-verse, and Discovery have all passed me by.

Does this matter for understanding Picard?  Fir example, Romulus' fate had entirely passed me by until now.  What's that in?

[Alberon]

You can ignore the Kelvin-verse films, all you need to know about Nemesis is Data died and Discovery effectively doesn't exist.

Romulus' fate was a plot point in the first Kelvin film but you don't need to know anything beyond what is said in the first episode of Picard (not that it was covered in much greater detail in the film).

In short, Picard is designed to be understood by someone who watched TNG, bits of the other shows and is only vaguely aware of the films. You're good to go.

Another point I've been thinking about is the visual language. Discovery based its on the Kelvin films which most fans seemed to think was a mistake. Picard's seems to be an evolution of the prime universe series and films and is better for it.

[Chairman Yang]

Yeah, that was exactly OK. Largely fan fiction, but unlike Discovery it wasn't filmed by a mad bastard on a Catherine Wheel. To be honest I wish it was just a straight sequel about a post-war Federation with Picard as just a background character.

Also, whoever is editing the trailers should be shot with a Varon T Disruptor.

[beanheadmcginty]

May have missed something, but that Romulan couple in Picard's chateau - are they servants?

[Natnar]

Are any DS9 characters going to be popping up on Picard at some point?

[Bad Ambassador]

Are any DS9 characters going to be popping up on Picard at some point?

I would have said there was no immediate reason since Picard didn't know any of them apart from Miles O'Brien, but he didn't know Seven of Nine either, so there we are.

[Shaky]

May have missed something, but that Romulan couple in Picard's chateau - are they servants?

He's employing them but they certainly seem more like friends.

[Malcy]

May have missed something, but that Romulan couple in Picard's chateau - are they servants?

I don't know if it will be explained who they are in the show but the prequel comic has their backstory.

Are any DS9 characters going to be popping up on Picard at some point?

Would be great to see O'Brien & Worf but apart from that not sure any of the original DS9 would have any reason to appear. Seven was brought in when they realised her character would fit in with the story well. An he was asked to be in Nemesis but declined because she saw no reason for her to be in it.

Robert Picardo said he had been in talks for his EMH to appear in S2.

[Malcy]

The Section 31 show that no one asked for is filming in May.

[Blumf]

I would have said there was no immediate reason since Picard didn't know any of them apart from Miles O'Brien

Picard had chat with Sisko in the first episode of DS9. He pretends not to know O'Brien.

[Sin Agog]

Picard had chat with Sisko in the first episode of DS9. He pretends not to know O'Brien.

There is no end to the lengths this fictional universe will go to fuck with Miles O'Brien.

[Blumf]

[Phil_A]

May have missed something, but that Romulan couple in Picard's chateau - are they servants?

They seem more like his carers, but the implication was they were there out of respect for Picard due to his actions saving the Romulans.

[Ambient Sheep]

You can ignore the Kelvin-verse films, all you need to know about Nemesis is Data died and Discovery effectively doesn't exist.

Romulus' fate was a plot point in the first Kelvin film but you don't need to know anything beyond what is said in the first episode of Picard (not that it was covered in much greater detail in the film).

In short, Picard is designed to be understood by someone who watched TNG, bits of the other shows and is only vaguely aware of the films. You're good to go.

Brilliant, thank you so much for the info.

Come to think of it I'd vaguely heard about Data.  Must catch up with Nemesis some day (assuming I haven't actually watched it and just forgotten about it, but given its release date, and especially its timing against Enterprise, it's more than likely I haven't).

I've been meaning to watch the Kelvin films (was quite excited when the first one came out) but it never happened.  Picked them up cheap in CEX last year but haven't yet got round to watching them, didn't know if I had to before this (although I expected I didn't, but nice to have it confirmed).

I would probably have watched Discovery but missed its E4 debut.  Ah well.

Anyway thanks again!  Really looking forward to this.

[oy vey]

Picard had chat with Sisko in the first episode of DS9. He pretends not to know O'Brien.

Eh... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn8fQRgb_XM

Robert Picardo said he had been in talks for his EMH to appear in S2.

Funny, watching the first episode I was thinking of the EMH. He's presumably tooling around somewhere with his mobile emitter intact, but given the

Spoiler alert

anti-synthetic laws surely he would be affected or even in hiding perhaps

[close]

. Also, when Dahj's

Spoiler alert

boyfriend is offed I was surprised she didn't call for medical assistance - surely they have something for that - ideally an EMH of some sort. They've had many iterations since mark 1

[close]

.

Generally I like it so far. Patrick Stewart is very much the anchor here (as he was to large degree in TNG). The pace is slightly wonky. Dahj's plot is fast and choppy while Picard is lounging about for quite a few scenes. I think we see him open those morning windows 3 times. Otherwise I like it - it feels like Trek, but fresh. Comparing to earlier series it also feels like a natural progression (I skipped Discovery after the pilot, but otherwise "I've seen everything"). The shooting style is occasionally droney (majestic bird's eye sweeps) - I was used to the tight thriller style of First Contact and Voyager's Scorpion (I rewatched relevant episodes to refresh). But I will get used to it. The cinematography looks beautiful, the music is solid, and the fx are top notch. Let's see how it goes.

[Blumf]

Eh... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn8fQRgb_XM

A little Trek humour

[Malcy]

Eh... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn8fQRgb_XM

A really great little scene which is oddly missing from TV repeats.

Bonus Colm Meany https://youtube.com/watch?v=OgYHCMMgn_U

[Alberon]

How did I miss this until now?

Fantastic!

[Blumf]

Aye, really like the art style.
https://chiefobrienatwork.com/

[colacentral]

I never noticed Colm Meaney's resemblance to Bobby Hill until now.

[phantom_power]

I thought that was really good, so much better than ST:D. Realistic characters, intriguing plot, lived-in world. It looked great. Stewart manages to do something different in this than how he plays Xavier in X-Men, for example, that makes it clear he is Picard. This is definitely more Michael Chabon than Akiva Goldsman

[Zero Gravitas]

That final scene with Dr Jurati had the heavy hand of focus group confusion laying on it:

P: I believe that Maddox modeled her on an old painting of Data's.
J: A female? Yes, I suppose you could make them that way.
P: Uh, I'm sorry? "Them"?
J: They're created in pairs.
P: Twins?...Twins.
P: So there's another one.

6 repetitions to make it clear that the person you're about to see isn't the same one that got blow'd up and melted earlier, particularly weird as you'd not generally take 'them' as plural in that context.

I found quite a few sections sat poorly with me in the same way, the "She's Activating! She's Activa-!" comment in the first scene. The "this painting had a title" and the portentous pause along with '...accessing...' from Index. Among others.

None of which were really needed apart from in the view of the most jaded screenwriting mindset that gives little respect to the viewer.

Perhaps I'm just grumpy, it's not as if TNG wasn't famous for it's laughable analogy to make the technobabble easier to follow "It might just give us enough to pour a little vinegar in baby's milk!" but this seems of a different character to me.

[Zero Gravitas]

This did please me however:



ST finally listening to Mike Stoklasa.

[Malcy]

I didn't notice that. Then again there's so many little details that are so easy to miss. The shot of Boston has a couple as well. A Ferengi building and spot the DS9 character advertising on a billboard!

https://i.imgur.com/xHQEXd3.jpg

[Jim Bob]

I don't know if it will be explained who they are in the show but the prequel comic has their backstory.

And to think that they say that art of filmmaking is dead.  It's not dead, it's just in a prequel comic.

Robert Picardo said he had been in talks for his EMH to appear in S2.

Name checks out.

[oy vey]

A really great little scene which is oddly missing from TV repeats.

Shafted by 20th century TV as well.

Picard gets to live out a life with a hot wife, best friends and a family. O'Brien gets 20 years in alien Shawshank.

[grainger]

I'm a huge TNG fan, or at least I was back in the day (I can see the flaws now), and I'm surprised to see so many people (here and elsewhere) saying it feels like TNG. To me, it really, really doesn't. Picard might be a great show, but it's absolutely not what I want from Star Trek, and it certainly doesn't feel like TNG.

I would get on with it better if it was a separate SF show starring Patrick Stewart. I'm trying to enjoy Picard as a separate thing, but my brain keeps short-circuiting when I remember this is meant to be 30 years on from TNG - and to me, it just isn't the same world. It just feels like Picard (the character) has gone through into a parallel universe. One that's not as distinctive, or as interesting to inhabit.

Aside from the obligatory grimdark, the world of Picard also feels oddly lower-tech than TNG - like everything is taken from our world. The designers seem far less visionary than the creators of TNG were. They can't imagine anything not based on 2020 or other SF movies/shows. Blade-runner-esque cities, people wearing modern suits, and so on.

The original ST, and TNG, had technologies the characters used as a matter of course that seemed amazing at the time, but pre-empted what we have. Picard doesn't even try to think about this - this doesn't seem to be on the agenda. The day-to-day tech they use is just stuff from TNG with a 2020-esque interface. The Daystrom Institute looked like the office I work in. The civilian clothes looked like the ones that people in my office building wear[nb]Ah yes, ha ha ha TNG pyjamas etc. But at least it wasn't the same as going to work. [/nb]. Oddly, the Starfleet uniforms we see aren't much different to 90s Trek - here, the showrunners have stuck to Trek orthodoxy, when it's precisely the kind of ting they should have rethought. Instead, they've kept the superficial details but changed the underlying worldview.

Also, let's discuss the grimdark (which was already boring about 15 years ago). Trek was meant to give us something different, give us an optimistic future, not "the future is shit". There always has been, and always will be, plenty of SF that does that (basically everything else except the optimism of the original Star Wars, before they made that grimdark too). And yes, I realise that we have Trek precendent here: DS9 was also grimdark. I didn't like that show, either, for exactly the same reason. Grimdark doesn't make it a bad show. But please don't do that with Star Trek[nb]And yes, I realise that of course Picard (the character) is going to fight against the grimdark. But that's also what every other grimdark show does.[/nb].

Now I already know from reading about Trek online that I am in a tiny minority here - everyone wants Trek to be "dark" and more "realistic". But I maintain that this really, really isn't Star Trek. It may be better, that's a judgement call, but it isn't Trek. I also realise that to may (most?) TNG fans, this does feel like TNG. I find this odd, but fair enough. But I want someone to say all this, no-one else has, so I'm doing it.

As you can tell, I am quite upset about this. TNG - and probably more than anthing else, its world, as clunkily realised as it often was - meant a great deal to me. By design, that world isn't here.

[oy vey]

Also, let's discuss the grimdark (which was already boring about 15 years ago). Trek was meant to give us something different, give us an optimistic future, not "the future is shit". There always has been, and always will be, plenty of SF that does that (basically everything else except the optimism of the original Star Wars, before they made that grimdark too). And yes, I realise that we have Trek precendent here: DS9 was also grimdark. I didn't like that show, either, for exactly the same reason. Grimdark doesn't make it a bad show. But please don't do that with Star Trek[nb]And yes, I realise that of course Picard (the character) is going to fight against the grimdark. But that's also what every other grimdark show does.[/nb].

You do have a point on the dark turn. I'd say the writers/producers want to say something about our post-2016 world. I am mildly concerned it's veering too close to Bladerunner but let's see where they take it. Picard will clean it all up no doubt, like the scouring of the shire.

Sacrilege on not liking DS9. You have foresaken the prophets young man!

[Malcy]

I don't think it feels like TNG. And I can believe that the post Nemesis Federation is the way it is. The Dominion War changed everything.

It's like many producers, writers and cast have said about Star Trek in that although Gene's vision of the future was nice and everything it wasn't practical. Of course all these darker elements would be prevalent. They were present in every race in Star Trek including humans. It's just that the focus was always on the other race's bad points.

They're making a whole series based on Section 31. Albeit the shitty Discovery version and not the cloak and dagger style of DS9 & Enterprise.