Star Trek - Picard show

[oy vey]

Red Letter Media review is out.

[Blumf]

Yep, they're not massively impressed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfQdf93e63I

Mainly ripping apart the dumb Romulan Supernova idea.

They do complain that Picard isn't a friend to Data, but I think, throughout the show and in the films, you do see Picard as a mentor to Data, a guiding father figure somewhat.

[oy vey]

Yeah I didn't agree with the Picard/Data argument against their friendship. I recall an episode where Picard mentored Data in drama - he played Scrooge in the holodeck. And there's the small issue of Data saving Picard's life sacrificing his own.

[Malcy]

Of course they were friends. The whole bridge crew were. I don't see the appeal of those two annoying idiots.

[Cloud]

I have very minimal respect for most Youtube "reviewers" to be honest.  Still need to check out the ones who were recommended in the Doctor Who thread as the Youtube algorithm is obsessed with shoving the "SJWs ruining my show with all their white male hating liberal leftism" types to the top (Nerdrotic, Computing Forever et al)

[Zero Gravitas]

RLM are usually quite good, or at least quite entertaining but that was poorly thought out and too soon a judgement.

Those hack frauds must have been especially drunk when they viewed the episode, they didn't seem to have the chain of events of the evacuation figured out, misrepresented that ToS scene and don't seem to be able to parse what 'reclamation' means.

[oy vey]

They lost the plot a bit on this one. I don't agree with their First Contact movie review either. I do like 'em otherwise - best of the worst is where their talents are better placed. And shitting on Star Wars.

Off topic I watched this youtuber's Doctor Who docs recently. Rather excellent: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHfd027RMxLoPodwqvXHOkw

Top tip: stay away from Trek reviewer Dave Cullen if you don't like liberal feminism bashing.

[Cloud]

Top tip: stay away from Trek reviewer Dave Cullen if you don't like liberal feminism bashing.

Yep, that's the one who has the "Computing Forever" channel but seems to bounce between that and his own name.  From what I've seen his whole channel is "these bleddy social justice warriors" and swearing that he's DONE FOREVER with Star Trek and Doctor Who... until next week

[oy vey]

Yep, that's the one who has the "Computing Forever" channel but seems to bounce between that and his own name.  From what I've seen his whole channel is "these bleddy social justice warriors" and swearing that he's DONE FOREVER with Star Trek and Doctor Who... until next week

The guy's a fucking ginge as well. The nerve.

[idunnosomename]

i watched that rlm re:view this morning and for what it's worth i was a bit confused on a lot of their criticisms having not seen the show, it all seemed a bit rushed and they didn't contextualise things very well. i probably know star trek slightly better than Jay, but not much, but this does look bobbins imo

it'd be better if mike did a star trek podcast with Rich probably then they could get them out quicker to react to these home streaming things.

[New folder]

I don't think Rich Evans is actually that good at reviewing. He's being overused beyond his abilities. Of course the Picard thing is shit but they seem to miss the point of why it's shit (see grainger's posts).

Maybe they criticise it on a less superficial level after ten minutes, but I'm not fucking watching almost an hour of this crap.

[bgmnts]

Just watched the RLM review and it was quite good, as a half Star Trek fan. As someone who watched a bit of the original series and a few seasons of TNG, it is quite sad how it has devolved. Maybe thats the way art HAS to go but still. There is no room for old school star trek anymore. The world is too volatile.

Kind of reminds me of science fiction in general, you start off with these really interesting late 19th century works which have something to say and are political commentary or allegory or whatever. Then you have the 50s sci fi which is all about America is great and will pave the way to the new future. The Star Wars happens and its bang bang in space blow shit up good vs evil.

Depressing. Fucksake star trek.

[Cloud]

I wouldn't worry about the bleakness too much.  The impression I get is that it's about saying things CAN get bleak but CAN get back to their former glory as long as you're willing to stand up for progressive values and not be complacent and just assume a utopian future is rock solid and never at any kind of risk.

[oy vey]

Agreed. Also, good story is built on conflict. We've seen several hundred episodes of utopia coming up against external and/or philosophical conflicts. DS9 was brave enough (with Gene Roddenbery's blessing) to introduce limits to the federation's utopia. Now we're seeing something larger scale. It is still possible to go back to the joyful trekking of old. It's called The Orville. You'll note that, as enjoyable as The Orville is, it's all too familiar. Like the premise and stories have already been done. They have.

[bgmnts]

The conflict was always more interesting when it was all about diplomacy and politics and interpersonal relatiomships and philosophical ideas. You dont need headache inducing gun fights and action sequences to have conflict. Thats Star Wars really isn't it?

Its obviously popular and thats fine but it just feels like its insulting the audience a bit. Or audiences are getting dumber.

[oy vey]

That's why I skipped Discovery and the movie reboots didn't do it for me, though I sort of enjoyed the third one. The older series had their action scenes but they usually meant something meaningful. I don't see that over tuned action in Picard, not yet anyway. There was a bit, but it was balanced with plenty of Patrick Stewart brooding, which I'm on board with. For now.

[Shaky]

Not seen it mentioned much but I thought Alison Pill was great as Dr. Jurati. She really sold a fairly exposition heavy scene and will be a nice addition to Picard's new crew.

[Lemming]

Watched the RLM vid. They leap to conclusions a fair bit and assume too much from one episode, but I think most of what they say is sound and I share a lot of their fears.

One thing that really rings true is how the writers of Discovery and (possibly) Picard are focused heavily on symbols, or things that people know about Star Trek from pop culture. Discovery's entire first season is about Klingons (even though they're not really anything like any Klingons we've seen), and the protagonist is Spock's never-before-seen-or-mentioned sister. They also have to end up in the Mirror Universe at some point for no fucking reason, because... people remember it. Then they build half of the second season entirely around The Cage, which I thought was just a bizarre thing to do even if the result was something much more watchable than season one. That's not to mention bringing Spock in because people remember Spock, bringing Section 31 in because people remember Section 31, having the Enterprise show up because it's Star Trek so it must have the Enterprise, right. And a Short Trek about tribbles, why not, everyone remembers them.

It's annoying because a lot of the new original content the writers created for Discovery was fine - the myciciiiclclcilciciciileleal network was interesting enough, the Kelpiens and goo-monsters were fine, the giant sphere that tries to download itself into the ship and fucks everything up was exactly the kind of cool weird space shit you'd expect to see in Star Trek. But then the series carries all this weird baggage from TOS/DS9 that it really didn't need to have and which completely drags it down. Picard could still go either way, but the entire plot appears to revolve around things and people we've already seen - Romulans, Soong-type androids, Borg cube, Seven, Hugh. All of which, like they say in the RLM vid, people vaguely aware of Star Trek know about.

This ties into the grimdark/"compromised Federation" stuff because Star Trek's entire appeal - to many people, anyway - is that it's mostly about reasonable people who prefer discussion to fighting and always focus on finding diplomatic and nonviolent solutions to problems (even in DS9). That's what sets Star Trek apart from other shows - I honestly can't think of any other TV sci-fi in a similar vein. Some fans hold the Federation's moral integrity so dear because there's virtually nothing else like it on TV. If you take that away, you've got all the symbols of Star Trek - Borg cube, Picard, Romulans - but you've got something that doesn't really feel like any incarnation of Star Trek before it, which is a fair thing for alienated fans to lament. I don't think Picard has strayed too far into grimdarkness yet, and I don't think we can tell what direction things are going in from just one episode, but two seasons of Discovery have convinced me the modern Star Trek writers and producers literally don't have it in them to write a traditional Star Trek story. That is to say, a story where there's not necessarily any conflict between heroes (and and maybe not even conflict with the antagonists), no ludicrously high-stakes drama, and where the main driving force behind plots is people discussing and considering solutions to problems, so I'm just glaring at the screen with a look of weaponised skepticism until they prove me wrong.

Also I just want them to eventually make an episodic series where you get an all-new adventure every week but that's all but gone as a style now :(

[evilcommiedictator]

Everyone going bananas over one episode. Brilliant stuff, get rid of those rumors about Nerds overreacting, RLM could have been half the length, a nate sent me some 'drunken' reviewer who honestly would have yrouble reviewing Wallace and Gromit because there are too many themes in it

[Malcy]

Read the last issue of the prequel comic earlier. Adds absolutely nothing to the series at all. Hoping that the show is going to have some flashbacks instead.

[idunnosomename]

problem is youtube rewards longer content now, earlier RLM stuff was muuuch shorter. sometimes restrictions are a boon to creativity. similarly Star Trek TNG on network TV vs this streaming guff

[Dex Sawash]

Pickard show is available on Pluto TV now (1st episode)

[New folder]

I never really believed Picard would be anything but a modern generic grimdark action sci-fi spectacle. To be honest, I'm not quite sure how TNG got away with some of its quirks at the time. Perhaps somebody at Paramount just said "Do your space show or whatever mate, not arsed" and people managed to weasel some creative freedom out of it -- the brand wasn't yet as tightly controlled. Now the Star Trek franchise is too valuable to allow room for any creative risks to take place.

The people involved in TNG had an interesting and unique vision in mind, and it shows. It's far from perfect, but for all its faults, the show is different, vibrant and creatively exploratory. I'm personally enthralled with the timeless computer interface designs, inspiring outlook into the future -- putting exploration, diplomacy and humanity's more idealistic aspiration for a better world as the main focus of the show. Even the Roddenberry-esque aspects of it feel more interesting and provocative if you compare them with a dispassionate, gagged production.

In a lot of prominent sequel/prequel cases, they misunderstand why the source material was well regarded in the first place. So they readily apply these "proven to work" methods, and it becomes another trivial consumer product with a Star Trek sticker on it. The source material ends up disrespected because of the adherence to current fads, and all creative decisions are made by some faceless risk assessment management team. An artistic piece should challenge the audience's views and expectations. Otherwise it simply panders to the viewer, and while they may enjoy it, and it might be well received at the time, do these things stand the test of time, and how much artistic value do they truly hold? It's all empty calories innit.

[earl_sleek]

How is Picard grimdark? It's not even that normaldark (so far), not compared to the Dominon or the fucking Borg.

[oy vey]

TOS - mix of lighthearted, fucked up, action, suspense etc. Limited only by FX budget and capabilities of the time. Top rated episodes: City on the Edge of Forever, Mirror Mirror, Balance of Terror (grimdark as anything today). Early TNG - Roddenberry criticised and sidelined for more "modern" touch. Enter Berman and the Borg. Later, Berman/Braga criticised for Voyager not being dark and gritty enough (and overly episodic style). Top rated episodes? Year of Hell and Scorpion. DS9 labelled darkgrim, despite a mix of story styles to match TOS/TNG/Voyager (The Visitor, Trials and Tribble-ations, Vic Fontain episodes, etc.). Only difference? Arc style of writing and dark space station sets. Aaaand Section 31 and In the Pale Moonlight I grant you but anyway DS9 was supposed to be what it was, ignore it if you want.

Is it darkgrim or grimdark? Sounds like a cunt from Game of Thrones.

[Alberon]

Just watched the second episode. It continues the measured pace the first episode had, but it isn't spinning its wheels as the plot setup continues.

It's not slow, though, and it certainly isn't grimdark. In this episode

Spoiler alert

Picard visits Starfleet and runs into the latest of a long and illustrious line of useless admirals, the type that littered TNG back in the day. It turns out that a Vulcan commodore (and I'm so glad that rank is back for some reason) in charge of security is working with the Romulans. We learn a little bit more about Picard's two Romulan helpers and what the goal of the Romulan attackers last episode could be. Quite a few nods to Star Trek history, some TNG characters get namechecked, as is the Stargazer when Picard meets the doctor from that ship again. Picard's neurological problem from All Good Things apparently is starting to bite (I'm glad somehow that wasn't ignored or handwaved away) and Vazquez Rocks appears again for the upmteenth time.

[close]

It's good. It's certainly pissing all over Discovery at this point (though to be fair that isn't hard, just stop the camera doing cartwheels and have non-irritating characters and you're three quarters the way there). Patrick Stewart is fantastic as always, but it's not just him lifting the show up. As I said before this feels like Star Trek and it's entertaining.

[Malcy]

I thought the second episode was fairly shit and a huge comedown from last week. The Irish Romulan really needs to get to fuck.

The bad.

Spoiler alert

"De cheeky feckers"

Sorry what? Fuck off. Makes no sense as to why she would speak this way. It's really off putting. Discovery version of the NCC-1701, Discovery style drones whizzing about making noise, Discovery shuttles EVERYWHERE. Couldn't they have designed something new or a slight update on what was in service 20 years previous? Lens flare, and the Romulans & Vulcans look like they're having a competition to see who can have the biggest ears.

And why do so many people speak like they're in an American high school. Fuck right off! 

[close]

The Good.

Spoiler alert

Nice to know that Geordi didn't die in the attack on Utopia Planitia considering he was the one in charge of the whole thing. Irrumodic syndrome being addressed. An unseen Stargazer Doctor. The music isn't bad and I'm beginning to like the theme as well.

[close]

I had big hopes for this after the utter bucket of shite we got with Discovery and most of those pointless awful Short Treks.

Spoiler alert

I'm in no rush to watch next week's a day early though. This one put me in a mood for the day. So many things irritated me.  But the Feckers was so bad and so out of place and nonsensical that I watched the rest of it annoyed.

[close]

[oy vey]

Anti Leptons, be gorra.

[Alberon]

So the Romulans are more realistic when they speak with an American accent?

[Malcy]

So the Romulans are more realistic when they speak with an American accent?

It's not the accent as much as what she said. I doubt that would have been in the script if the actress wasn't Irish. So why do it?