Star Trek - Picard show

[Camp Tramp]

Data is juuuust starting to get on my tits a bit now, get an emotion chip in him asap, already halfway through season 4.

YES baby Worf, although Alexander is the shittest name for a Klingon going. It has NO HONOUR.

Also, is a white actor playing a Klingon 'blacking up'? Unsure.

Martok is white too

[Alberon]

I think it'd be worse if it was decreed only black actors could play Klingons. It's tricky as the colouring used occurs naturally in some human races. I mean, you're not going to have this argument about a Cardassian or an Andorian.

[Wonderful Butternut]

I think it'd be worse if it was decreed only black actors could play Klingons. It's tricky as the colouring used occurs naturally in some human races. I mean, you're not going to have this argument about a Cardassian or an Andorian.

Majority of Klingons are played by white actors. Michael Ansara (Kang), John Colicos (Kor), William Campbell (Koloth), Robert O'Reilly (Gowron), J.G. Hertzler (Martok), Charles Cooper (Kord/K'mpec), David Warner (Gorkon), Patrick Massatt (Duras). Worf and Kurn are actually the only two I can think of who are played by black actors.

I saw some guy getting very butthurt about a black Romulan somewhere on t'internet a few years back.

[Blumf]

I saw some guy getting very butthurt about a black Romulan somewhere on t'internet a few years back.

Did anyone point out the various black Vulcans to him?

[colacentral]

I never liked Troi, and like Sirtis even less. But I do agree that there are multiple episodes where the writers use a different character for something that would make more sense for her. The one that springs to mind is Cause and Effect - surely an empath should be the lead rather than Crusher, as the character most likely to intuitively sense something's wrong. Guinan's character doesn't help much with that either, being basically another Troi. Again it would have made more sense for Troi to notice the time line had changed in Yesterday's Enterprise. Though I prefer Guinan so I'm not complaining.

[bgmnts]

Yeah that Geordi episode didnt age well did it, creepy little cunt.

[Lemming]

Episode six:

Spoiler alert

Liked the scene with the Borg being de-borg'd and liked Hugh.

Didn't like the character moments too much, because it feels like they're doing the Discovery thing again where they skip to emotional payoffs without doing any of the necessary preliminary character work. Jurati and Rios are together now, alright then. I'm liking Raffi, but again it feels like we barely know her and we're jumping to big emotion scenes too quick.

The pacing also still feels quite plodding - the actors made the Soji and Narek scenes work relatively well but it's still a big waste of time to build towards something we've known since literally the first episode (that she's an android).

Picard's turnaround on the Borg was also funny. From "THEY'RE MONSTERS!!" to "I love the Borg. The Borg are more human... than all of us..." in 15 minutes, with literally NOTHING happening to change his mind, other than seeing a person happy at being de-borged - something he's already had done to himself, seen done to Hugh, and seen the results of in Seven of Nine.

I love the scenes where Soji can't stay awake for more than 70 seconds when calling her mother. That's how I feel watching this show sometimes!!!!!!!!!!!

Also what the fuck was up with the very end? Three security guards show up and say "put your hands up", no indication that they're about to fire, and they get murdered from behind by one of the people we're meant to be rooting for? Then it's all handwaved away? Picard even laughs about it? Total bullshit and soured me on an episode that I'd been mostly doing okay with up until that point.

[close]

[Zero Gravitas]

Maybe I'm a huge ageist but Stewart's delivery always sounds like confused pleading.

I can't think of a section I actively hated, everyone apart from Stewart and Evagora are growing on me, at least Evagora has an excuse since he's delivering absolute tripe.

Del Arco in particular was great, even if the introduction couldn't help but throw them full speed into being long lost friends.

The bones were certainly there on this one for me: Soji's plotline from picture scanning to final activation all actually gave context or information about the core mystery beyond 'ooh it's a mysery', there's a clear plan of attack and progression from the incest romulans and the process for getting there was   suitably trek for me - I'm quite interested in the crew being free of Picard, to see what they do with them, even if we're not.

Plus we find out that in all likely hood that eurotrash Sikarian aesthete piece of shit that denied voyager the magic teleporter is probably dead or borgified so that's a nice bit of headcanon.

Re-reading that it sounds like I dislike Patrick Stewart, which is fair, he gets triple blame as actor, EP and probably the strongest voice on set.

Spoiler alert

Picard's turnaround on the Borg was also funny. From "THEY'RE MONSTERS!!" to "I love the Borg. The Borg are more human... than all of us..." in 15 minutes, with literally NOTHING happening to change his mind, other than seeing a person happy at being de-borged - something he's already had done to himself, seen done to Hugh, and seen the results of in Seven of Nine.

[close]

I can only imagine they were channelling his little ship smashing rage from FC for drama and callback but didn't really think how turning that into disgust would jive with their own story when anger at 'the collective' as a hegemonizing force would have transformed better in the face of seeing what is purportedly the first instance of wide-scale adult deborgification.

Spoiler alert

Also what the fuck was up with the very end? Three security guards show up and say "put your hands up", no indication that they're about to fire, and they get murdered from behind by one of the people we're meant to be rooting for? Then it's all handwaved away? Picard even laughs about it? Total bullshit and soured me on an episode that I'd been mostly doing okay with up until that point.

[close]

It was so plainly a device to get him onboard I can forgive it, they've stabbed themselves in the foot giving him a sword in the first place.

[Malcy]

All the Picard and Hugh stuff was great. The rest was total shit.

Spoiler alert

The Queen's personal escape technology was basically an Iconian Gateway just under a different name. Even more efficient than transwarp technology. Would give the Borg a huge advantage. But nah keeps it to herself in case of emergencies.

[close]

[bgmnts]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv-wmixiiMA

RLM banging these out.

[Zero Gravitas]

All the Picard and Hugh stuff was great. The rest was total shit.

Spoiler alert

The Queen's personal escape technology was basically an Iconian Gateway just under a different name. Even more efficient than transwarp technology. Would give the Borg a huge advantage. But nah keeps it to herself in case of emergencies.

[close]

A lot are picking on that point under similar terms but:

This hub connects with thousands of transwarp conduits with end points in all four quadrants. It allows the Collective to deploy vessels almost anywhere in the galaxy within minutes.

The real objection should be that the original device depended on being used near their home planet, or just side step the real fun of it and call it pointless backreferencing.

[bgmnts]

Also, what's odd to me about the constant complaining about the horrid nature of the prejudiced, xenophobic, violent world of Picard is that these are all Patrick Stewart's ideas aren't they? Didn't Stewart want it to be a reflection of the current cultural and political situation that is happening now? Influenced by your Trumps and Johnsons and Brexit and the like?

Why aren't all these Trek fans just as angry about this in real life?
Maybe this will make them think, who knows.

[Zero Gravitas]

I don't think people are complaining about seeing a story that speaks to issues of a "prejudiced, xenophobic, violent world" as such, it's more centred around the execution and how suitable that execution is tonally and canonicaly in a star trek setting, both in terms if it being plainly hamfisted and gratuitous and breaks the conventions of trek.

Ronald D Moore put it well when he said he cared about being careful and consistent in his trek stories because:

The STAR TREK, hardcore audience loves continuity; they love accumulating data on these ships. They love knitting together all the little pieces, and compiling lists, and doing trivia. That's been a staple of the STAR TREK culture from the get-go. People really love the details. They love the fact that the details all add up and make one mosaic, and that the universe holds together. When you don't give a shit, you're telling the audience: don't bother. Don't bother to really learn this stuff, because it's not going to matter next week, anything that happened this week

Using the usual conventions of flying off to a planet to rub up against these issues would be a lot more palatable, even in the face of other stylistic changes.

[bgmnts]

Fair enough, the execution and continuity is dire.

[Lemming]

The RLM videos on this have been a godsend, if only for the solace of knowing that someone else is dreading each episode of Picard as much as I am at this point.

Also, what's odd to me about the constant complaining about the horrid nature of the prejudiced, xenophobic, violent world of Picard is that these are all Patrick Stewart's ideas aren't they? Didn't Stewart want it to be a reflection of the current cultural and political situation that is happening now? Influenced by your Trumps and Johnsons and Brexit and the like?

Why aren't all these Trek fans just as angry about this in real life?
Maybe this will make them think, who knows.

I think a few things from the awful TNG movies were his ideas too. Dune buggies.

[Wonderful Butternut]

Six episodes in and we actually get to the meat of the plot. Wonderful.

Spoiler alert

Picard's hostile attitude to the Borg on The Artefact at the start doesn't make sense. Yeah, he hates the Borg, but he knows full well what happens to them when they get disconnected, and has done since "I, Borg". They're not really Borg anymore. He should surely have the same attitude to The Artefact Borg that he has to Hugh and Seven. It was just put in so he could narrate the 'revelation' that the Borg being de-assimed is good.

I'm also surprised he finds de-assimilation on 'this scale' to be so surprising, considering that one medical team could de-assim him (albeit he wasn't Borg for long), and one now obselete EMH could de-assim Seven - you know, the person he met in the very last episode. A dedicated full medical team doing nothing else being able to de-assimilate a lot of people is hardly that surprising, is it?

I also thought his PTSD aboard The Artefact was over the top. Apart from going kill crazy, he held it together no problem aboard the assimilated Ent E. Maybe without the murder boner to focus him, the horror would play on him, but I still think him nearly falling into a pit was a bit much.

A bit conflicted on Narek relying on the old 'put the good guy in a room with a trap that kills her' routine instead of shooting her. On one had he knows how dangerous she is if she 'activates' and should make sure. But on the other hand he is so upset and conflicted about doing his duty it's maybe understandable he wasn't able to shoot her in the face. He could've gotten his "sister" to do it though.

[close]

All the Picard and Hugh stuff was great. The rest was total shit.

Spoiler alert

The Queen's personal escape technology was basically an Iconian Gateway just under a different name. Even more efficient than transwarp technology. Would give the Borg a huge advantage. But nah keeps it to herself in case of emergencies.

[close]

Tbf, the Sikarians did exist prior to this episode. But having

Spoiler alert

an actual militarily dangerous power have their spatial trajector is a bit problematic. And as Zero Gravitas says, should it fucking work away from their planet anyway? Although maybe you could handwave those two things against each other: Whatever the Borg had to do to make it work away from Sikaris makes it unsuitable for large scale use. But equally, it's dangerous technology for them to be able to develop.

[close]

[beanheadmcginty]

Is this programme being secretly bankrolled by Big Tobacco? Barely a scene goes by without someone puffing away on sone sort of cancer stick.

[Chairman Yang]

It's interesting seeing people still rankled by Picard's thoughtlessness. Would the scene have been any better if it ended with... I don't know, a cloaked Romulan escape pod?

The ending just was just more lazy video game writing; 'you arrived at the cube, here's your next waypoint, run down a corridor'. I find it impossible to care about anything because the characters are being pushed along by narrative convenience.

I mean... the Borg Queen and them having time travel were both invented in the same movie, co-written by Ronald D. Moore so... fuck it, like.

This show just sucks. Sweep all that canon under the rug with the rest of it.

[Old Nehamkin]

No need to use spoiler tags to discuss released episodes, guys!

[Lemming]

Watched the new RLM video in full and the part where they discussed the possibility of an alternate show where Seven would be a leading Borg expert at the Daystrom Institute utterly devastated me. God, I wish.

I wonder what the two (!) new unannounced live action series will consist of. I wish they'd just stop making Star Trek at this point.

[Kelvin]

I'm not watching this show, but the RLM coverage is wonderful. I honestly think the latest one might be the funniest thing they've done, Rich just accepting how shit it is, Mike still trying to come to terms with it.

[petril]

giggling away at the one line where top baldy Picard says "what you're doing is good, Hugh".

No Jean-Luc, what you've been doing is Goodhew

[jamiefairlie]

. I wish they'd just stop making Star Trek at this point.

I wish they'd start making Star Trek at this point, rather than these impostors.

[Blumf]

Well... I liked Hugh, and... erm... something resembling a story at last. Oh, and the Borg walls moving looked good.

What was that round of applause Raffi got after that call? How fucking insensitive would you have to be to think that was an appropriate thing to do? "Yay! You just burnt another bridge with an old friend, woo!"

They really are struggling to find a point for that Elrond guy.

[oy vey]

It's hitting it's stride, but is that stride enough? The flying visits are getting a bit samey. Hello Seven goodbye Seven. Hello Hugh goodbye Hugh. Who's next? It's Riker isn't it.

[Lemming]

I wish they'd start making Star Trek at this point, rather than these impostors.

Oh, yeah, that too. It's just that I'm terrified they'll fuck up anything they try at this point.

The foolish part of my mind still hopes that one of those unannounced show is an episodic Pike series, set on the Enterprise. Even if that miracle scenario occurs, it'll go tits up somehow. Probably will end with Number One going through a wormhole to the Delta Quadrant and becoming the first Borg queen or something.

[Wonderful Butternut]

Oh, yeah, that too. It's just that I'm terrified they'll fuck up anything they try at this point.

The foolish part of my mind still hopes that one of those unannounced show is an episodic Pike series, set on the Enterprise. Even if that miracle scenario occurs, it'll go tits up somehow. Probably will end with Number One going through a wormhole to the Delta Quadrant and becoming the first Borg queen or something.

Well, at least if they make a Pike series, they might actually let Christopher Pike be Christopher Pike, Great Starfleet Captain. Instead of some bloke who just sits in the command chair letting Burnham, Saru, Section 31 or some nebulous concept of fate decide everything for him.

[Sin Agog]

Animations tend to have a better pedigree for going a bit weird and stepping away from TV trends, so I'd put the best odds on the new animation being the one good new Trek.  The '70s series is great in a languid Ambien/t kind of way- if whoever makes the new one was a fan then it should be promising.

[Alberon]

Well, I still like it. Though everything with Raffi this week was just ludicrous. Even the music under the scene where she was burning another bridge with another Starfleet buddy was seriously wrong.

Rios had nothing to do this week so was given two crap scenes, but I'm still convinced he's not as ex-Starfleet as he claims, maybe in Starfleet Intelligence as opposed to Section 31.

But I enjoyed the rest. The fear of the Borg seemed more about his slow loss of control of his emotions and after he conquered that the old Picard returned.

[grainger]

Why aren't all these Trek fans just as angry about this in real life?

I am. So much so that I have grimdark fatigue. I know the world has turned to shit. I don't want every single piece of fiction to throw it in our faces. Of course, some fiction should deal with the situation we're in, but there are different ways to do it.

Trek always addressed bullshit in the real world by way of contrast, showing us an alternative. It did it in its own way, not in the way most other genre fiction tends to approach it. A lot of Trek fans don't get this, a lot of Trek creators don't get this, and as a result, we get modern Trek.