Author Topic: Star Trek - Picard show  (Read 51687 times)

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #720 on: March 29, 2020, 07:30:47 PM »
I actually can't make a coherent post about how shit this shit was. All I feel right now is, don't cry because it happened, smile because it's over.


Dogshit for simpletons

sirhenry

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #721 on: March 29, 2020, 08:27:33 PM »
And yeah, Chabon apparently trying to claim it was foreshadowed is just risible. Maybe both characters looked at each other for a split second in a blurry background shot or something and we were meant to take that as expertly laying the groundwork for romance.
But he said "apparently so." as if even he had no knowledge of any foreshadowing either and had been told by the committee that there had been some.

So glad someone here mentioned The Orville earlier on. It's not great and some of the episodes are painful but it's a welcome relief from Picard and at least it has it's heart in the right place, as opposed to Picard's chew toy.

Blumf

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #722 on: March 29, 2020, 08:43:09 PM »
So glad someone here mentioned The Orville earlier on. It's not great and some of the episodes are painful but it's a welcome relief from Picard and at least it has it's heart in the right place, as opposed to Picard's chew toy.

Have you tried Star Trek Continues? Very ropey acting (although some old Trek hands turn up here and there), but many of the stories really nail that TOS feel.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhvh2eq-XLgqNxH6npvQxGxLCUHy90IpZ

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #723 on: March 29, 2020, 09:29:08 PM »
So Chabon's basically been saying that they made Picard to provoke anti-SJW twats, implying that if you think it's shit, you are one of these. He can fuck off all over again, then, as far as I'm concerned. He's deliberately made a dark, cynical show out of a warm-hearted universe, and then accused people who don't like that as being the ones who are the right-wing cynics. What a prick.

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #724 on: March 30, 2020, 11:17:01 AM »
No never appeared again, neither did the badges or her nervous friend, or the dynamic that they were visitors in a slightly bureaucratic-ish romulan controlled research installation.

Watching that specific scene does have a weird more polished (and comfortably boring) tone to it, since those gantry sections were amongst the initial promo photos I wonder if it's not a remnant from before the cheap as chips reshoots and greenscreen it's fairly reusable scene setting if you forget that most of the elements it introduces vanish.

Thanks for that, Zero. My mind kept returning to that scene because it was actually legible. I didn't care for the "ooh, who knew Roms could be so hot"-type dialogue but at least we knew what was going on. I was okay with the idea that these youngsters were starting a new job in a weird place: relatable. But it felt like something important was being set up that just never happened.

And that gantry Romulan had such a strong look and attitude (again, the aestethic is not my bag, but he wasn't shot as background: it really felt like we were supposed to notice him) that I expected him to be a front-line character or at least to come back and do something relatively significant. Bizarre.

Blumf

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #725 on: March 30, 2020, 12:37:47 PM »
So Chabon's basically been saying that they made Picard to provoke anti-SJW twats,

So, basically, letting hate define him. What was the Picard speech at the end of the season about again?

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #726 on: March 30, 2020, 03:38:54 PM »
If I was Picard, I'd be well jarred off that they put my brain in an old man body. I'd be wanting sexy 20 year old Picard body with full head hair and muscles, not liverspot wrinkle Mr Burns bod.

"We spent all our resources and sacrificed this golem so you can live. By the way, you die in 10 years."

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #727 on: March 30, 2020, 10:31:20 PM »
A good way to take season 2 would be to take a look at the issues of Picard now being only "optionally mortal" and how tempted he might be to ask for more extensions than a brexit negotiator.

Wonderful Butternut

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #728 on: March 30, 2020, 10:45:14 PM »
A good way to take season 2 would be to take a look at the issues of Picard now being only "optionally mortal" and how tempted he might be to ask for more extensions than a brexit negotiator.

Do not give them ideas.

"Hey guys... what if he puts a micro-photon torpedo launcher in his arm? We can spend our entire CGI budget on the sequence where it comes out of his arm and then rely on artistic licence with camera focus to avoid having to spend more than $2 on any CGI starship bridges we need."


Oh, do you remember the bit where they butchered Icheb to show how edgy and cool they are? There was actually on opportunity in the last episode to give that a semblance of meaning by having Seven capture Narissa instead of kill her, because she'd discovered that vapourising Bejaysus (or whatever her name was) didn't actually make the guilt about Icheb go away. But nah, too complicated, the audience clearly wanted to see Seven kick Narissa into a chasm.

Although what's the bet she somehow bullshitted her way out of that and crops up in season 2?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 11:03:55 PM by Wonderful Butternut »

Sherman Krank

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #729 on: March 31, 2020, 01:22:39 AM »
A good way to take season 2 would be to take a look at the issues of Picard now being only "optionally mortal" and how tempted he might be to ask for more extensions than a brexit negotiator just bin the cunt.

sirhenry

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #730 on: March 31, 2020, 09:38:26 AM »
Soji just got her dream job working on the Borg cube, but instead of jumping into the work she immediately (the day she arrived as far as I could tell) jumped into bed with a Romulan she had just met.
Was this ever explained? Was there a line from him about how he'd managed to hack into her social interaction settings and set them to Cat In Heat? If so, I missed it.

Malcy

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #731 on: April 03, 2020, 06:25:54 PM »
Akiva Goldsman has written an Admirals log of Picard dealing with Coronavirus.

Quote
“Admiral’s Log. The quarantine stretches on. Essential systems continue to fail. And though many of us are used to long periods of isolation, the prohibition on physical contact, not to mention our inability to leave the ship, is beginning to wear on even the most seasoned members of the crew. Remote communication flourishes — still I am reminded there is no substitute for a direct gaze or the reassurance of a friendly touch. I am emboldened by the crew’s resilience. Despite the hardship, they continue to work their stations; productivity and routine can be an excellent balm on fear. And fear they do, how could they otherwise? The threat we face is real with no immediate end in sight. But that does not make it endless. On the contrary, this period of darkness will end, as surely as it began. Fear will fade to memory. We will survive, stronger, perhaps more aware of the profound connections we have always shared. And a time will come when we once again right this ship and sail forward together into the future, that bright unknown.” —Akiva Goldsman


Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #732 on: April 06, 2020, 09:40:18 AM »
Akiva Goldsman has written an Admirals log of Picard dealing with Coronavirus.

Blimey, that's horrible.

I'd been meaning to look into Goldsman and find out who this numbnuts might actually be. Check it out, he's got "Worst Screenplay" Golden Raspberry noms out the wazoo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akiva_Goldsman#Filmography

Batman and Robin!!!!

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #733 on: April 06, 2020, 09:43:43 AM »
Batman and Robin!!!!

The Dark Tower!!! Star Trek: Discovery!!! Rings!!!

The more I look into this guy's career, the clearer it becomes that there's absolutely no such thing as meritocracy. Off to kill self now, bye.

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #734 on: April 06, 2020, 09:53:27 AM »
So Chabon's basically been saying that they made Picard to provoke anti-SJW twats, implying that if you think it's shit, you are one of these. He can fuck off all over again, then, as far as I'm concerned. He's deliberately made a dark, cynical show out of a warm-hearted universe, and then accused people who don't like that as being the ones who are the right-wing cynics. What a prick.

Probably one of the clearest examples we've seen so far of cynical use of politics to divert criticism of poor quality work.

Trek as a whole just seems like a cushy retirement home for a load of hacks who's film careers have all tanked and now look out for each other.

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #735 on: April 06, 2020, 10:51:34 AM »
Visually, I'm trying to think of what kind of Trek I would like to see, and I think fundamentally it isn't going to happen. Any big SF franchise nowadays has to be automatically charged with bombast with CG elements flying around everywhere. Star Trek was rarely terribly subtle, but I can't stand the way modern SF movies/TV look - massively busy environments, pointlessly cavernous spaces, orange floating interfaces, etc., and I think much of this aesthetic is antithetical to Trek.

TNG's ship sets look dated, of course, and I know it now gets lambasted as being "80s hotel in space", but it embodied the philosophy behind the show. Large but welcoming, hi-tech, but pleasant for the people using it. Practical (within the reality of the world's it's set in) without being oppressive. The bridges on Discovery and Picard would just feel oppressive and migraine-inducing to work in. There's no humanism there, no concern for the people actually using it[1]. At least the more utilitarian DS9 and Ent interiors made sense, as they didn't come from the utopian Federation and therefore fitted their shows well.

So I don't think any Trek show will feel utopian again, until the design aesthetic of screen SF moves on.
 1. Yes, I realise the cigar guy's ship isn't Starfleet, but all the Starfleet bridges we do see are equally horrific.

Malcy

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #736 on: April 06, 2020, 11:13:26 AM »
I read another interview with that Chabon prick last week. He was asked about fans wanting good old episodic adventures and he said something along the lines of;

"That's what they think they want to see, but they are wrong".

Who the fuck does he think he is?

Blumf

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #737 on: April 06, 2020, 01:41:32 PM »
Is Chabon still involved in production? Thought he had wondered off leaving Kurtzman to it. Classic Hollywood screenwriter arrogance though.

Visually, I'm trying to think of what kind of Trek I would like to see, and I think fundamentally it isn't going to happen. Any big SF franchise nowadays has to be automatically charged with bombast with CG elements flying around everywhere. Star Trek was rarely terribly subtle, but I can't stand the way modern SF movies/TV look - massively busy environments, pointlessly cavernous spaces, orange floating interfaces, etc., and I think much of this aesthetic is antithetical to Trek.

I still don't have a good idea of what the main ship looks like, nor how it's laid out internally[1]. The whole show is just bored and disinterested VFX artists seeing how many polygons they can throw at the screen before their next contract. Doesn't help that there's some weird contact wrangling that stops them using classic designs (the few we did see, like the Ent. D hologram, were specially negotiated)

Here's the start of the Voyager episode Good Shepherd, from top deck bridge/captains ready room, to bottom deck (although, why they're carrying PADDs all over instead of using comms, who knows?[2])
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ud8HJgUoQs

Not to mention the famous turbolift scene in TOS that follows the layout of the ship.
 1. I'm guessing the med bay is either behind the warp core, or off to the side. Either way, it must be at the top, because of the sun roof. But then that must make it on a higher floor than the main bridge/store room area which seems to cover two levels...?
 2. Dramatic licence!

Malcy

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #738 on: April 06, 2020, 03:22:30 PM »
He's staying on as executive producer along with the other dozen of them.

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #739 on: April 06, 2020, 03:26:43 PM »
I read another interview with that Chabon prick last week. He was asked about fans wanting good old episodic adventures and he said something along the lines of;

"That's what they think they want to see, but they are wrong".

Who the fuck does he think he is?

One of those who thinks they're Henry Ford with the "if I'd asked what people wanted they'd have said a faster horse" logic.

SHEER FUCKING HUBRIS

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #740 on: April 06, 2020, 08:45:04 PM »
I don't have a problem with it not being episodic. I have a problem with it being mean-spirited, unimaginative and shit.

Nobody Soup

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #741 on: April 07, 2020, 01:48:39 AM »
I feel like I have a lot to say about this but I can't be bothered putting my thoughts into coherent words.

And given neither could the writers of this show that seems fine.

Felt like they had a few good ideas (corruption, rescued borg cube) and wanted a few cameos and call backs and just shoe horned them into a half arsed plot. All the new characters were god awful.

Major take home from the series is that 7 of 9 would have been the more interesting subject of a spin off than Picard farting about.

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #742 on: April 07, 2020, 11:40:56 AM »
I've not watched any of this, other than YouTube clips, including one where Riker appears an his armada of a million ships, that look to come out of hyperspace rather than warp, and he says something as fanfic as "Hey, I'm gonna kick your sorry Romulan ass!" and Old Man Picard sounds like he's happy to see his son visit him in a care home. It looks like a parody.

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #743 on: April 07, 2020, 08:16:09 PM »
Dogshit for simpletons

Good quote for the DVD box art there.

And going on some of the reviews on IMDB, it might be one of the better quotes they get.

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #744 on: April 14, 2020, 03:00:21 PM »

mothman

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #745 on: April 30, 2020, 10:28:08 PM »
I started this thread, so I thought I might as well check in on it and add a comment.

Ooof, that was painful. But it’s over now and I can get on with my life. Maybe there’ll be a second season, if we get past the current unpleasantness and - though I hate to say it, he seems hale & hearty but he is almost in his 80s - Patrick Stewart lasts that long.

Now, I’m a Trek starships nerd, so as you can imagine I’m feeling a bit short-changed. One new class - or rather one design, two sub-classes: there are two different nacelle designs. And according to Chabon’s Q&A, originally there were going to be four different ship designs in Riker’s fleet, but time & money meant they rushed it.[1]

RUSHED IT?! This was a fucking CBSAA & Amazon Prime flagship series! The level of promotion it’s received has been immense. And yet when it gets to the final episode, they’re all like, “Meh, it’ll do.”

That to me just says it all about a lot of Star Trek, not just this recent stuff. There’s a lot of by-the-numbers plotting, often literally - there have been some great scenes written for various instalments over the years, which either weren’t filmed for budgetary reasons or were cut for timing, and character development be damned. If you read (the late) Michael PIller’s book about the making of ST: Insurrection, it’s an absolute shitshow of a production. The script was complete by-the-numbers, a collection of plot points with no real interest in an overarching story they actually want to tell.

Sometimes by-the-numbers can work. ST:FC went through a similarly torturous writing process, first having them battling the Borg in mediaeval Italy and then when they did settle on a timeframe, originally Picard had the Earth-based plot line (actually pretending to be Zefram Cochrane) while Riker battled the Borg on the Enterprise. And yet the end result is in my (and many others’) top 3 Trek films. TNG ep “Yesterday’s Enterprise” took about a dozen people to write and it’s regarded as one of the best episodes of ANY Trek outing.

I'm not giving up on Trek. I don't get out much these days anyway (and even less so right now) so I can watch the new stuff and probably always will. It's not at the point where I can't be bothered at all - yet. I had high hopes for the Tarantino film, and have transferred that to the Hawley effort. Disco s3 will happen. The cartoons will happen. The S31 show might happen. A Pike show might happen (this I'd welcome, but I suspect Kurtzman & co will still fuck it up). But it's disappointing: I'm bingeing Halt And Catch Fire right now, have just finished Better Call Saul s5, both are light years better than any Trek since at least ST: Enterprise. Westworld may be a real Marmite show but I challenge even those who din't like it to say it's worse than DSC or PIC.
 1. If there had been four new designs, people would still have been carping about the lack of older vessels, true. But the big space battle at the start of ST: First Contact was built mainly around four new ship designs (not counting the Enterprise-E), with cameo appearances by TOS-movie & TNG ships, and it’s a fan favourite sequence and those new designs were really popular. I have the Eaglemoss models of all four on my bookshelf.

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #746 on: April 30, 2020, 11:26:12 PM »
I thought it was watchable fluff, best viewed through beer goggles. It's very much a 'turn your brain off' show which can't withstand any level scrutiny. I don't regret watching it but I fully understand why it pissed many people off. If you like your Trek to be a little bit philosophical and give you something to ponder, and if you insist that your Trek must, well, make sense, then you are going to find Picard obnoxious.

Let the healing begin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao99bNrJ_1Q

This seems excessive. Mike already spent close to 4 hours discussing this season with Rich. What is there left for Plinkett to say? I'm expecting a series of comparisons of clips from TNG and PIC, with him pointing out the dislocations between the two. 'Remember when in Next Gen Picard said THAT thing? Well in the new show he says THIS thing instead - which is completely inconsistent!' Repeat one hundred times.

Still, I suppose this is theraputic for Mike and he needs to get it out of his system. He's always been very anal about TNG.

idunnosomename

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #747 on: May 01, 2020, 01:24:56 AM »
i just hope it has plinkett having a massive uncontrolled and extended bowel discharge in the direction of alex kurtzman

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #748 on: May 01, 2020, 02:01:42 PM »

Kelvin

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #749 on: May 19, 2020, 07:34:55 AM »
Plinkett review is up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwF1iri1GjQ&t=0s

It's terrible; interminably dull, goes over mostly the same ground as they already covered, but with too much focus on listing the plot failings, and not enough analysis of the fundamental issues at the heart of the problem. Worst of all, it's just not very funny; the very definition of sarcasm being the lowest form of wit. I'm not going to say he needed Rich to bounce off, but I certainly feel like he would have been better off just focusing on the last few episode that they never got round to covering together. As it stands, it doesn't feel like he had enough new points to make.   

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