Author Topic: Star Trek - Picard show  (Read 41256 times)

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #660 on: March 25, 2020, 04:02:05 PM »
Hi!

Just popped in to see if Picard has improved at all! Wait, what? It's got even worse? Well, shit.

Random thought when watching "Elementary, Dear Data" this morning. Star Trek always had plot holes and unsatisfactory endings and thinly-written characters and people not learning from what should have been life-changing incidents two weeks ago, right? But we forgive it willingly because we're having a good time.

With Picard, the simple fact that everything looks like bilge water and none of the characters or stories are fun means it's for the bin.

To be clear: I'm not saying we're harshly judging Picard or remembering proper Trek too fondly or anything like that. I'm saying that this horrible show is beyond contempt on every level.

Blumf

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #661 on: March 25, 2020, 05:57:16 PM »
There's also that fact that old Trek used to be stand alone episodes (with exceptions, mostly DS9), so you can excuse a bit of hand waving and character inconsistency to fit everything into 40 minutes.

This show will be 10 episodes, over 6 hours, of people being miserable dumbasses, for one story.

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #662 on: March 25, 2020, 06:22:22 PM »
There's also that fact that old Trek used to be stand alone episodes (with exceptions, mostly DS9), so you can excuse a bit of hand waving and character inconsistency to fit everything into 40 minutes.

This show will be 10 episodes, over 6 hours, of people being miserable dumbasses, for one story.

Agreed. Watching it is like drinking bin juice. Slowly.

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #663 on: March 25, 2020, 07:49:10 PM »
There's also that fact that old Trek used to be stand alone episodes (with exceptions, mostly DS9), so you can excuse a bit of hand waving and character inconsistency to fit everything into 40 minutes.

This show will be 10 episodes, over 6 hours, of people being miserable dumbasses, for one story.

It isn't one story though and thats part of the problem, it's lots of bits of stories hanging off a thin main narrative. And none of the bits have enough about them to be interesting. And the people are miserable dumbasses.

Alberon

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #664 on: March 25, 2020, 09:53:16 PM »
I don't hate the show entirely. It has the usual problem many penultimate episodes of a season these days in that it sets up the action packed finale but ends up being slow and boring itself while doing so.

This did feel more like Trek than most of what has gone before and it is miles better than Discovery, but it still isn't good enough. Raffi as a character is terrible and the murdering cyberneticist is just plain annoying. Only Picard, Rios and Soji are at all interesting, which is two up on Discovery.

The season arc has been way too thin and it would have been better to have more standalone episode stories bulking it out. Doing a whole season of standalone episodes might no longer be the model for television in the streaming age as it was in the syndication age (and I can understand why), but a better middle ground would be character arcs and story arcs running through a series of mostly individual episode stories. That way you keep the serialised draw to bring the audience back for the whole series with the faster speed of a standalone episode.

Lemming

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #665 on: March 25, 2020, 10:16:00 PM »
Picard honestly feels less like Star Trek than Discovery did to me. They're both flashy nonsense with plots that make the worst videogame writing look good, but Discovery (the second season, anyway) had a few new ideas of its own and went for the occasional semi-standalone episode. Picard feels more like elements and characters of previous Star Trek series being brutally stripped of all context and twisted to fit into this crap muddled story that's about fifty different things and also nothing all at the same time, with every episode except the casino planet (terrible) and the RikerTroi episode (boring) all blending together into one nightmarish blur.

Raffi is indeed terrible but I think Michelle Hurd deserves praise for doing great work with near-nonexistent material. She just about managed to sell that scene with her son that came out of nowhere, meant nothing and likely will not be mentioned again. Soji, Rios and Jurati are all some combination of boring, annoying, or both, while Narek and Narissa are beyond cringeworthy. Picard feels like a new character with little connection to TNG's Picard, and not a very interesting new character at that. My favourite character is Admiral Clancy because Picard really should just "shut the fuck up".

Actually, all the actors deserve praise for working with what they've got - except for Patrick Stewart, that is. Patrick Stewart can't even act anymore. It's like he's in a regional theatre production. "BUT to ACC-USE her of BE-ING a TAL SHIAAAAR AGENT?!?! *gurn*". He's actually sucking the life out of every scene he's in, and that's really bad news when no scene in the show has any life in it to start with. He's creating anti-life vacuums, to the point where it's almost a relief when it cuts to yet another scene of Jurati crying or Soji panicking just to break up the monotony.

The only thing it really has over Discovery is that the plot is actually possible to follow, unlike the Red Angel stuff, but Discovery was so offensively stupid and incoherent - especially towards the end - that it was at least easy to laugh at. This is just an exercise in checking how long's left every 5 minutes and wondering how it's possible that you're only halfway through the episode when it feels like you've been watching it for hours and yet almost nothing's happened on screen.

In conclusion, can't wait for the already-commissioned second series and I'm going to buy a Raffi FunkoPop to recreate my favourite scenes.

oy vey

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #666 on: March 25, 2020, 10:35:34 PM »
Watching each episode piss away is a bit like final GoT season all over again. I can't imagine any kind of last episode redeeming it now. Even Q can't save it. It's not the darkness, it's the shitty writing. It's like the writers fucked a load of post-its on a wall and forgot to throw away shite and develop the rest into a coherent script.

Wonderful Butternut

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #667 on: March 25, 2020, 10:59:13 PM »
Gun to my head, I'd say that Disco feels more like Star Trek than Picard on the basis that they're actually in Starfleet, on a Starfleet ship doing science and exploration with their starship. But scratch beneath the surface and any 'Trek feel' from either series is shallow overtures. Pike's completely empty sound-offs with Disco's crew about how great they are and how positively Starfleet views them. Picard being touched at seeing the Hugh and xBs only for loads of them to die in very next episode. etc. etc.

That being said, I have more hope that Picard might come good. Dunno why. Maybe I'm some sort of moron. Disco mid season 1 was starting to look like it could get good with, but then they fucked everything aspect of it that had promise, and turned all the characters into shallow cut-outs by the middle of season 2. Picard's characters are largely shallow cut-outs too, but they could develop, whilst Disco's have regressed, even within relatively short run of the show so far.[1]
 1. Don't wanna harp on too much cos I mentioned it in another thread, but I really cannot get over Saru 'evolving' into a more predatory species. Couldn't have a gradual change in him where he realises himself that he needs to be firm and less pessimistic to become an effective starship captain, but at the same time not entirely abandon his 'prey species' instinct for danger to protect the people under his command? No? That's too subtle? Okay, he has to talk about how powerful he feels and gain the ability to fire bone darts instead.

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #668 on: March 26, 2020, 11:13:48 AM »
They're both flashy nonsense

Flashy would never have been a word I'd have chosen to describe these shows, but you're spot-on. Flashy is right. In the way that BoJo is "flashy" with his big, useless, expensive, unwanted, alienating construction projects. Picard is like Garden Bridge. Disco is like HS2. All noise and no signal. Meaningless, nutrient-free brown polystyrene.

Another thought. Did anyone catch the Star Trek episode of The Toys That Made Us? They talked about (I'm struggling to remember the right word) "re-badging" or "badge-slapping" or something where toy manufactures would slap the Trek brand onto an unrelated product by way of shifting units. The result was stuff like that helmet: https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2016/09/08/shittest-star-trek-merchandising-ever-made/

Picard is that helmet. But nowhere near as fun. And it's canon!

*goes off to be sick in a bucket*

Malcy

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #669 on: March 26, 2020, 11:44:58 AM »
Well that's that over with thank fuck.

What was the point in bringing Seven in to this? She had little to do except revenge kills and become lesbian. Chakotay must have let the side down.

We've already had Data's death. Don't be making me sob over it again...

Nice of Riker to turn up with a massive fleet of IDENTICAL looking ships to face off against the massive fleet of IDENTICAL Romulan ships and then leave just as quick.

Soong was a real Soong and not Lore then. If they hadn't killed off Maddox he could have filled that role easily.

The Riker bits were the best I thought. Good to see him on a bridge.

What was that Sonic Screwdriver equivalent thingy? It just seemed to appear as a super handy plot device not once but twice.

And what in the name of fuck was coming out of that portal? Big mechanical claws making a load of noise. Piss off.

I swear the writers are just writing any old shite and being happy with it.



No more. There was maybe 20 mins of the whole series that I liked. I'll just remember those bits and delete the rest. Should have known it was going to be shit.

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #670 on: March 26, 2020, 03:23:13 PM »
Well that's that over with thank fuck.

What was the point in bringing Seven in to this? She had little to do except revenge kills and become lesbian. Chakotay must have let the side down.

We've already had Data's death. Don't be making me sob over it again...

Nice of Riker to turn up with a massive fleet of IDENTICAL looking ships to face off against the massive fleet of IDENTICAL Romulan ships and then leave just as quick.

Soong was a real Soong and not Lore then. If they hadn't killed off Maddox he could have filled that role easily.

The Riker bits were the best I thought. Good to see him on a bridge.

What was that Sonic Screwdriver equivalent thingy? It just seemed to appear as a super handy plot device not once but twice.

And what in the name of fuck was coming out of that portal? Big mechanical claws making a load of noise. Piss off.

I swear the writers are just writing any old shite and being happy with it.



No more. There was maybe 20 mins of the whole series that I liked. I'll just remember those bits and delete the rest. Should have known it was going to be shit.

Holy Fuck. Are they even professional writers? That sounds like fanfic written in a spunk-smelling room with the blinds down. And not in a good way.

Zero Gravitas

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #671 on: March 26, 2020, 04:07:01 PM »
So what wasn't ultimately fluff that had no effect on anything?

I'm not sure what elements were vital to the plot anymore, the core of it was:

Romulans framed synths for the destruction of mars and schemed to know the source of even more advanced synths in order to get rid of them too, ultimately being dissuaded from achieving this when confronted by the federation fleet.

I don't want to discount creative world building as pointless but the existence of the borg cube, the borg XB integration and predation plot, the romulan system's destruction, the knock on effects on the destruction of mars on the romulan evacuation - it feels flippant to dismiss them as set pieces but I'm struggling to feel they're realised elements of the story - even given that this has been 10 hours of screen time it doesn't seem like a lot has gone on that actually involves the core arc, and what has gone on truly related to the core arc seems watery and half thought out.

Perhaps it's the heavy and repetitive blending of the core arc intermixed with half-integrated skeletons of episodic plots; but this lost its identity as either.

This whole thing has made me very sad.

Alberon

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #672 on: March 26, 2020, 05:23:24 PM »
Okay, I've defended this series up till now.

But that was just shit.

Badly written shit.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 05:35:12 PM by Alberon »

Alberon

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #673 on: March 26, 2020, 05:43:43 PM »
And just to add a rant about that old chestnut that death allows us to live. No, it bloody doesn't! If everyone could live as long as they wanted would we be any different apart from a lot happier? Whenever this anti-immortality stuff comes up it always seems like sour grapes to me. "Living forever would be so horrible. I wouldn't want it anyway."

Rather than this slow descent to decrepitude and death (assuming it doesn't just leap out at me suddenly one day) I'd much prefer living to 495 (or 4595 or whatever) deciding that was enough, throwing a big party and then peacefully ceasing to exist.


Load of wank.

And to top it all Picard is dead and we're expected to follow the adventures of an android with his memories copied to it tottering around next series. I don't bloody think so.

Zero Gravitas

  • What I gotta do to get your bovine visna?
Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #674 on: March 26, 2020, 05:45:57 PM »
...the adventures of an android with his memories copied to it tottering around next series. I don't bloody think so.

He's done it probably thousands of times before, but previously the new bodes were freshly materialised meat.

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #675 on: March 26, 2020, 06:14:17 PM »
I forgot about Lore. That would have been really interesting if he'd changed and tried to built a lasting legacy to his father and brother. There'd have been character growth, interesting reflections, emotional weight. Would he try to correct what he saw as flaws in Data's design? Would he aspire to recreate his brother's nobility? But instead we got a random Soong.

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #676 on: March 26, 2020, 06:31:19 PM »
Okay, I've defended this series up till now.

But that was just shit.

Badly written shit.

Aw, sorry Alberon. Genuinely. I enjoyed your cautious optimism through the early episodes.

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #677 on: March 26, 2020, 08:49:15 PM »
Okay, I've defended this series up till now.

But that was just shit.

Badly written shit.

I'd defended it up to and including the Riker/Troi episode, but everything after that I really struggled with, and then the season finale was piss poor stuff indeed. I'm genuinely surprised as I love Michael Chabon's novels, but this was so simplistic and poorly plotted compared to them. I could pick apart about a million things (or thirteen, anyhow) but most of all, are they just letting Agnes off the hook for murdering Maddox now?

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #678 on: March 26, 2020, 10:27:56 PM »
The Troi and Riker episode annoyed me, Marina Sirtis' husky voice aside. It was lazy emotional manipulation, trying to make us face the consequences of the Federations horrible ban. Look a child died of science babble that could have easily been solved by techno babble, but the Federation have done that thing that makes absolutely no sense, damn them. Real deep stuff.

Wonderful Butternut

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #679 on: March 26, 2020, 11:19:55 PM »
I kinda liked the last episode in a way, but at the same time I know it was just pure fan service and fluff:

Pull on our heart-strings with Data. Again. Check.

Have Riker turn up to help save the day with 200 ships. Check. (They really should've made them pre-existing designs, which should still be in service though. Those thing were fucking ugly)

Have Picard sacrifice himself even though it was blindingly obvious he wasn't going to stay dead. Check.
(Once you've introduced the Golem in the previous episode, we all know what it's going to be used for. But you could at least do a bit better than Picard 'dying' with more than 15 minutes left. It's really obvious he's not going to stay dead when there's that much episode left.
Also if he thought he was going to die, why didn't he ask Riker to hang around?)

Peaceful, happy, resolution which is supposed to undo 9 episodes of miserable shit. Check
(I'm surprised it didn't resurrect Troi & Riker's dead son along Icheb & Hugh)


And then there's pure pointlessness and silliness:

The android's magic wand. I could buy it as a repair tool, but also being able to generate 200 images of La Sirena? And 200 images of La Sirena that act and manouvre indepedently of the original. Fuck off. Right off. And it's unnecessary from the point of view of the narrative. Just have Captain Beard turn up a few minutes earlier.

Seven & Raffi holding hands at the end for no reason. If you want Seven to be in season 2 and be a lesbian, that's fine. Just build it in season 2, please, rather than lazily tacking it on at the end here.

This Picard loving Data stuff... there's only so many times you can have them say that without concluding that Picard wanted to fuck Data. Is that what they actually mean?


Now that they've made everything happy and nice and positive again, can we have a real Star Trek series now?

Zero Gravitas

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #680 on: March 26, 2020, 11:49:34 PM »
Insultingly careless and cheap, there was also the recent discovery that the 'Admonition' https://youtu.be/VLCxAJdCZGg was for a large part Shutterstock videos. Totally libellous gossip is that Secret Hideout funneled bags of PIC wonga into STD season 3.

Wonderful Butternut

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #681 on: March 26, 2020, 11:54:52 PM »
Totally libellous gossip is that Secret Hideout funneled bags of PIC wonga into STD season 3.

Totally libellous gossip has been that that Disco has been a complete commercial failure that was going to be cancelled and result in the IP being sold to Seth McFarlane, so I'd take that with a pinch of salt. Whilst it's not completely incompatible for these two things to have truth in them (PIC money used to save DIS S3?) that seasons 4 & 5 of Disco have been green lit makes it a bit of a stretch.

Chairman Yang

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #682 on: March 27, 2020, 12:05:33 AM »
Righto. I'm settling in with this hot stream of piss and I'm going to watch every. single. second of it.

Wish me luck.

Chairman Yang

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #683 on: March 27, 2020, 12:36:02 AM »
This is so shit! I've seen fan films with more believable green-screening. Just pay the fucking hundred bucks for a second spaceship mesh... Jesus Christ.

Chairman Yang

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #684 on: March 27, 2020, 12:47:22 AM »
Pfffff... what?!

It was all about love the whole time? The importance of making a human connection the whole time? It was about FAMBLY THE WHOLE TIME?!

Fuck off was it ever the fuck about that.

Edit: Glad that nobody in Star Trek ever needs to die again, though...
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 01:16:14 AM by Chairman Yang »

Zero Gravitas

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #685 on: March 27, 2020, 01:31:33 AM »
Whenever this anti-immortality stuff comes up it always seems like sour grapes to me. "Living forever would be so horrible. I wouldn't want it anyway."

Data was 41 when he died, hardly a full life, certainly not compared to Picard, I suspect he just said whatever was most likely to end his 20 years of stimulated isolation in a grey room.

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #686 on: March 27, 2020, 08:00:27 AM »
Quick question for people who watched to the end:

The Romulan who liked drama. i.e. the lad with the haircut who told them the rules about life on the Artifact. Did he ever make a second appearance?

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #687 on: March 27, 2020, 12:23:21 PM »
Quick question for people who watched to the end:

The Romulan who liked drama. i.e. the lad with the haircut who told them the rules about life on the Artifact. Did he ever make a second appearance?

He went to the android base with them and was never mentioned again as far as I remember. They didn't even have him reacting to the news his sister was dead!

The multiple spaceships things was silly as has been mentioned, especially when they had a Borg cube on the planet which it seems 7 just left behind.

Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #688 on: March 27, 2020, 01:09:18 PM »
He went to the android base with them and was never mentioned again as far as I remember. They didn't even have him reacting to the news his sister was dead!

Oh wait, not that Romulan. I may have misremembered who said what in that first episode. I'm not curious about he of the sister (Narek, I believe he is called). I'm curious about the lad who was standing up on the gantry and said something like "there could be active drones here. If you see a drone on the loose... run."

Chairman Yang

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Re: Star Trek - Picard show
« Reply #689 on: March 27, 2020, 01:13:20 PM »
I'm really struggling with what Picard is ultimately about.

So we've got the Federation right, which off-screen rolls back rights for androids without comment and then produces a slave class which goes berserk and so then 'synths are banned'. OK.

But then the protest all the sympathetic characters make, and the issue the free androids are fighting for, is 'our rights are being denied by this ban' and 'this ban is an insult to the personhood of synthetic life' but like... the ban isn't the issue, it's the original decision to enslave sentient machines. The happy ending to the story is a reversal of the material illegality of androids but that doesn't also undo their classification as property. What's to stop the Federation just making a million slave Datas again next Tuesday?

There's a really confusing allegory here with slavery and civil rights that conflates the two and positions... I guess, legal slave ownership and universal suffrage as being politically aligned? The issue is one of liberty and personhood not a right to exist as a nation. If anything the plot of Picard is closer to the issues of Jewish identity and nation state but were the androids ever... exterminated? It's certainly what the current androids seem worried about. If so, how the fuck do you parse the genocidal revenge plan that exists for all of half an episode?

What the fuck is Picard actually about, friends?!

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