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Virtual Reality

Started by castro diaz, May 16, 2019, 04:31:12 PM

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El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: Blue Jam on March 18, 2021, 12:14:48 PM
Just ordered a Quest 2!

Had been mulling over getting a VR headset for about a year now, ever since werk bought an Oculus Rift for public understanding of science-type events (yes, really) just before the pandemic happened and we had to cancel them all, and then being advised to get a cheap PS4/PSVR set-up by some friends who were getting fit in Covid with Beat Saber and eulogising about it.

I assumed the price of a PS4 VR set-up would have dropped now the PS5 is out but the PS4 still aint cheap and the goggles aren't either, and I wouldn't want to spend that much on a console coming to the end of its life cycle, especially not as I'd then have to buy all the games on top of that. I didn't fancy the Rift or the Quest 1 as my laptop with its integrated graphics isn't powerful enough for VR, and there weren't that many standalone games for the Quest 1 at the time.

The Quest 2 however sounds like a real game-changer- properly wireless, no need for sideloading or other faffing about, no need to spend more on a graphics card that you would on the headset itself, and with a load of standalone games which look pretty decent. Also it seems cheap for an impressive-sounding piece of kit, especially as you don't have to buy any cables or extra controllers or any other peripherals, and the games range in price from free to £22. Seems a bit odd when consoles use the opposite pricing strategy. Is this deliberate, maybe because a lot of the userbase will be PC games who are used to forking out for a decent rig and playing cheap games on it?

I won't be able to use it with my PC but I can use it with my Xbox, in 2D of course but Subnautica will probably still be prohibitively terrifying on it.

It arrives on Saturday... and if I'm not sold on it they still have resale value so fuckit.

Enjoy! I recommend these for tips and reviews.

https://www.youtube.com/c/CasChary/videos

https://www.youtube.com/c/VirtualRealityOasis/videos

And yeah, you can pretty much get the same as you pay for them on ebay if you decide to resell. I've even seen them going for more used on there than they sell for new, I guess some people don't shop around...

I highly recommend The Thrill of the Fight, it's only 8 quid and you'll definitely get fit with it, along with Beat Saber. Anne Frank VR is a good free starter one you can download directly from the in-game menu and get you used to controls/moving within the guardian boundary etc.

Blue Jam

Subscribed, cheers!

eBay's a weird one alright. I remember when I was in the market for a pair of Technics 1210s back in my DJing days and was watching eBay for a cheap second-hand pair. I kept being outbid by people paying the RRP for a brand new pair. They knew exactly what a brand new pair cost and set that as their maximum bid instead of just buying a new pair in full working order, with a guarantee, and the lids intact (second-hand sets are often missing the lids) from the site they were browsing to check the price. Weird. It's like some people have a strange loyalty to eBay or forget that retailers exist.

The Thrill Of The Fight and Beat Saber are definitely on the list. I used to kickbox yonks ago, forgotten it all know but I know how to throw a punch and a boxing game might be very cathartic as well good for fitness. Might get Audioshield as I like the idea of being able to work out to music of my choosing but it doesn't look like it offers as much of a strenuous workout. Racket Nx looks right up my street, a bit like Dropshot mode in Rocket League. Heard good things about Thumper. Red Matter looks like the kind of "you're the only survivor on a spaceship gone wrong" game I struggle to resist... there's loads I want to try and loads more coming, I'm nowhere near this excited about the PS5 or Series X.

POPULATION: ONE looks like an immersive Crackdown  and I'd be seriously impressed if that's what all the flying around really felt like, but I get vertiginous enough playing the originals in 2D. Maybe if I'm feeling brave. Ditto for The Climb 2- sounds pretty exhilarating, if you can handle it.

Richie's Plank Experience is right out. Brrrrrrrr.

Blue Jam

Think I'll start slow, just try out the pre-loaded demos this weekend and get used to playing within the guardian boundary. Don't want to end up doing this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMceVbo3Tm4

El Unicornio, mang

Ha, it's very easy to do that kind of thing, you really do lose sense of your real environment when you're  in the VR world. Take care with roomscale boundary set-up, I banged my knees up really badly when I was getting started because I had set the guardian boundary with the coffee table in the room thinking "I'll just remember it's there and avoid it". Of course I didn't, ouch. If you're doing one where you walk/turn around you'll find you're in a completely different place than you expect when you remove the headset.

Yeah, I attempted Richie's Plank Experience a few times, couldn't do it.

When you first start it up at the menu screen there's a nice kind of stylized environment you can explore, and there's about 10 others you can choose from (a spaceship, a futuristic apartment, etc). I'd really like to have a massive space like an empty warehouse to properly walk around them. Also a recent update allows you to measure your couch and it will appear in the VR world in the right space for sitting on. They're adding updates like this pretty regularly (think they're up to version 26 currently) and they happen automatically so no need to manually download.

For watching movies, I use Virtual Desktop as it has the best environments, although it requires a PC so you'll probably want to get Bigscreen Beta (free) which has all kinds of cinemas and fancy apartments and such, and you can watch movies either that you've put on the headset, or live "events" (like they'll say "Ghost in the Shell 3D starting at 8pm") with your friends or other online people, who you'll see in the audience as little characters, quite weird.

The headset also has 3 different pupil distance settings for the lenses which you select by manually pushing them sideways, you'll definitely want to set this before doing anything.

popcorn

While playing Alyx I routinely found myself trying to steady myself on walls or tables, and after having played for a couple of hours I came across a sofa in the game and momentarily thought "ooh I might just have a sit down".

El Unicornio, mang

Had a couple of moments similar to that playing Alyx, it's very real/immersive. I felt genuine disgust at the part when you pull the rotting corpse out of the window. Could almost smell it.

I was playing Bogo one night (free pet simulator thing) and was stroking his head then felt fur and realised I was stroking my actual cat who had sat down next to me.

Ferris

Is PSVR a load of old toot then?

Blue Jam

#157
I set up Virtual Desktop in anticipation a few days ago but I didn't know about Bigscreen Beta, that sounds like it'd be a really nice thing to try now I can't get to an actual cinema, cheers.

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on March 18, 2021, 03:06:56 PM
Ha, it's very easy to do that kind of thing, you really do lose sense of your real environment when you're  in the VR world. Take care with roomscale boundary set-up, I banged my knees up really badly when I was getting started because I had set the guardian boundary with the coffee table in the room thinking "I'll just remember it's there and avoid it". Of course I didn't, ouch. If you're doing one where you walk/turn around you'll find you're in a completely different place than you expect when you remove the headset.

Apparently if you take someone to a big open space blindfold them and then tell them to walk in a straight line they'll actually walk in a circle while being convinced they were walking straight ahead. I'll have to look up the research (EDIT: Souman et al 2009) but it's fascinating how spatial awareness and visuals don't always match up even with the human body in the real world, never mind in VR. It's a wonder we don't get motion sickness while walking.

Quote from: popcorn on March 18, 2021, 03:09:09 PM
While playing Alyx I routinely found myself trying to steady myself on walls or tables, and after having played for a couple of hours I came across a sofa in the game and momentarily thought "ooh I might just have a sit down".

Hahahahahahaha. Will be a long time until I try Alyx, not planning on investing in a PC gaming rig anytime soon. Looks great though.

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on March 18, 2021, 03:17:23 PM
I was playing Bogo one night (free pet simulator thing) and was stroking his head then felt fur and realised I was stroking my actual cat who had sat down next to me.

Hahahahahahahaha... and a dog simulator is just what I need, will check out Bogo, cheers.

I'm definitely going to stick to sitting/standing games for a while before I try any roomscale titles. Got a decent-sized shared garden and I suppose titting about with an Oculus wouldn't look any more daft than doing yoga or t'ai chi out there. It is a shared garden though, big risk of an Airbnb twat thinking it'd be funny to tap me on the shoulder. I suppose I could go out there at night but then I'd just be at risk of tripping over a randy fox instead.

Both excited and scared to find out just how immersive this thing is now.

El Unicornio, mang

Oh, if you use Virtual Desktop that's definitely the better option for watching films with the virtual environments, they're more real looking. The auditorium, home theatre and nighttime posh NYC apartment are my go to ones. The BigScreen ones are good too but more cartoony/stylised, although it's nice to have the virtual cinemagoers so it feels a bit more social.

mobias

The Quest 2 is great fun and a very good headset for the price. The tech is moving really fast now. Quest 3 all but announced for the end of this year and Oculus have even said the Quest 4 is also in development. Stand alone headsets are the big game changer. HTC apparently have a new version of the Vive coming out later this year. Won't be hugely cheap though. From what I've heard people won't really try and compete with Oculus for the Quest 2 market share. The real battle is going to be in the £500 to £1000 range.

Best VR experience I've had recently is flying a helicopter in VR in flight sim 2020. Overwhelmingly immersive flying over London as the sun sets over the city. 

Blue Jam

Tried Farming Simulator in VR yet mobias? Serious question. I bet it would be very relaxing and it would look gorgeous.

The Quest 2 only came out a few months ago, please don't tell me my new purchase will be obsolete before the year's out!

mobias

Quote from: Blue Jam on March 18, 2021, 09:42:10 PM
Tried Farming Simulator in VR yet mobias? Serious question. I bet it would be very relaxing and it would look gorgeous.

The Quest 2 only came out a few months ago, please don't tell me my new purchase will be obsolete before the year's out!

I don't think it'll be obsolete its more a case of Oculus wanting to move fast to create a whole Oculus ecosystem. The tech is there now for them to have cameras on the inside of the headset that will track your eye movement. This would help
with the so called 'sweet spot' problem that all consumer level headsets have where they only have a relatively small area which is actually sharp to the eye.

Farming Simulator in VR would be ace. There's various programs out there for making games playable in VR. Vorpx is the most popular I think.  https://www.vorpx.com/

El Unicornio, mang

I read the Oculus 3 won't be out until 2022 at the earliest, maybe 2023, and the Quest 2 looks to be getting an upgrade to 120fps so should still be good for a while. There's always going to be slightly better stuff round the corner. The VR tech does seem to be moving at a good pace now though. Exciting times, thinking about where things could be at in 10-20 years, or when I'm spending my retirement home years plugged into San Junipero.

peanutbutter

Price drop for the quest 2 near Christmas seems like the smarter move to me. If they can get these things down below 200 theyd absolutely exploded in popularity .


My motherboard apparently has a WiFi 6 card built in, reckon that could hotspot the virtual desktop app reasonably well?

mobias

Quote from: peanutbutter on March 20, 2021, 10:33:51 AM


My motherboard apparently has a WiFi 6 card built in, reckon that could hotspot the virtual desktop app reasonably well?

Yeah but what is your actual router rated at? If its 5Ghz or 6Ghz then you'll be fine.

El Unicornio, mang

I have 5Ghz, it's capped at 300mbps which Virtual Desktop warns will result in poor performance but I've rarely had issues. Although with stuff like Half Life Alyx a link cable is better if you don't have the 1000mbps+ internet.

One tip for people just getting into this: let the headset just sit on top of your head after first turning it on, for 2-3 mins, or you'll get major steaming on the lenses.

mobias

From what I can gather later this year Oculus will unlock the speed of their fibre optic cable so you'll be able to get much faster data transfer speeds from your PC with that. I'm not sure if you'll need USB 3.2 capabilities or not. That cable is £80 though. Could be worth it. I've cranked the Quest 2 up to its full resolution and it it quite gloriously clear. Terrible performance though, certainly with flight sim.

Ferris

Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on March 18, 2021, 03:19:04 PM
Is PSVR a load of old toot then?

Actually an even simpler question from your friendly neighbourhood simpleton:

If the PSVR is a load of old toot, and I have a Dell XPS laptop (which I don't think is powerful enough for all this gaming malarkey), is there such a system that is self contained (ie doesn't need to link to an existing console or computer)?

I accept I could probably figure this out on google but I'm secretly a technological dunce and it would take me a while to get to the bottom of it all. I'd also like to play with VR cos it's super fun.

El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on March 20, 2021, 02:12:46 PM
Actually an even simpler question from your friendly neighbourhood simpleton:

If the PSVR is a load of old toot, and I have a Dell XPS laptop (which I don't think is powerful enough for all this gaming malarkey), is there such a system that is self contained (ie doesn't need to link to an existing console or computer)?

I accept I could probably figure this out on google but I'm secretly a technological dunce and it would take me a while to get to the bottom of it all. I'd also like to play with VR cos it's super fun.

The Oculus Quest 2 is self-contained. The only requirement is a facebook account. If you're planning on getting a lot of games, films etc and having them kept on the headset at all times, the 256GB option obviously worth getting over the 64GB, although even the more graphically advanced Quest games like Arizona Sunshine are only about 12GB (vs 60GB for Steam VR titles like Half Life Alyx). Regular stuff like Beat Saber, Vader Immortal and Gun Club VR are only 1-3 GB each.

Blue Jam

I went for the 64Gb version as every single review said the extra storage isn't worth the extra £100 unless you're planning to travel with it and be without wifi for long periods. I did wonder if there would eventually be games requiring more than the effective 50Gb of free space but plenty of AAA Xbox titles are smaller than that.

El Unicornio, mang

Yeah, I can't imagine going over the limit. Even if you did travel, you could fit 20-30 regular sized games on it.

Blue Jam

I also read that films are more of a problem as they take up much more space, but if you're streaming them from various Oculus apps or casting them from Virtual Desktop that's not an issue at all is it? As for travel, in-flight entertainment is pretty good these days, I can't imagine wanting to bring a load of films on a plane, and even if I did a tablet or laptop would be infinitely more practical.

I could see how the extra storage would be good for the public understanding of science stuff my workplace does (3D micrographs, astrophotography files etc take up a lot of space) but I couldn't think of a good reason for me to fork out the extra £100 for my humble needs.

El Unicornio, mang

Yeah, you'll want 1080p quality/decent bitrate for video, so at least 3GB for an average length film. The Oculus Quest 2 is 4k resolution so obviously ultra HD even better although those can be huge, usually at least 30GB so I tend to reserve 4k for streaming YouTube videos.

If you're casting from Virtual Desktop it doesn't matter, it doesn't use any space on your headset. Although it only casts the resolution that your monitor (or TV if you're hooked up to one) is capable of and both my laptop and TV are only 1080p so I can't stream wirelessly above that. If you use a link cable it automatically sets it to the headset resolution (4k) so you can stream 4k movies from your PC or other device using that method, even if your PC is only 1080p.

Blue Jam

Just unboxed the Quest 2. Sexy bit of kit isn't it?

Initial thoughts after switching it on: THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER.

Second thoughts: Beat Saber is not as easy as it looks.

I think I'm in love.

castro diaz

Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on March 20, 2021, 02:12:46 PM
Actually an even simpler question from your friendly neighbourhood simpleton:

If the PSVR is a load of old toot, and I have a Dell XPS laptop (which I don't think is powerful enough for all this gaming malarkey), is there such a system that is self contained (ie doesn't need to link to an existing console or computer)?

I accept I could probably figure this out on google but I'm secretly a technological dunce and it would take me a while to get to the bottom of it all. I'd also like to play with VR cos it's super fun.

PSVR has its detractors but if you already have a PS4/5 and are looking for a relatively inexpensive way to dip your tits in the VR waters then I'd say it's your best bet.  The headset is by common consensus the most comfortable on the market, the gamepad is the best way to play a certain type of game (excellent hand in a box puzzler Statik couldn't be played and wouldn't be as ingenious without it, turning its greatest limitation into its best feature) and, almost five years into its little life, it now has a robust back catalogue of top tier games and exclusives the envy of the Western World.  Exclusives like

Cack your pants at Resident Evil 7, be a metal sod in Iron Man VR, strangle innocent people in the service industry in all 3 Hitman games, create and share handmade content in Dreams, the gaming community's equivalent of Tony Hart's little noticeboard.  Act Bobby Big Bollocks in slag 'em up Blood and Truth.  And, of course, Astro Bot, a game so pure and exhilarating that it should be illegal to see photos of it out of VR, in much the same way we shouldn't draw pictures of the prophet Muhammad.

Really it only misses Half Life Alyx and that Microsoft Flight Simulator for sexual predators.  Here's a Top 25 list and there's another dozen or so that could or should have made the cut.

You may well already have some games that are also fully playable in VR at no extra cost (Tetris Effect, Star Wars Squadrons, or lurid multiverse expedition No Man's Sky) or can be updated for a small fee (Dirty Rally, or the clunky but absorbing 70s Quebecois thriller Kona).  Many games have been given away with PS+ such as futuristic mechaball sports game RIGS, the balletic majesty of geometry in Bound, the terrifying rollercoaster shooter Rush of Blood, tactical team FPS Firewall and exemplary sci-fi story shooter Farpoint and next week of the ten games being given away for free as part of Sony's Stay at Home initiative, five are VR games, a statement of intent from Sony perhaps, in the same week that they've shown off the new, improved controllers for PSVR2.  The games are:

Moss, as talked about here
Quote from: castro diaz on March 23, 2020, 01:36:04 AM
In more pastoral news I have also played Moss, a game discussed in user Dewt's multipage behemoth of a thread which somehow managed to get less traffic than a discussion in another sub-forum about good Australian comedy.  Moss is a charming platformer which sees you guide Quill, an earnest little mouse, on a gentle adventure through a series of Tolkienesque dioramas like some kind of benevolent giant with learning disabilities.  It's a bit like Animals of Farthing Wood written by Jimmy Page and none the worse for it.  There is one particular moment, deftly curated, that happens just far enough into the game that you have genuinely started to worry for this daft sod and the fate of her world.  Hope seems lost and as she resolutely trundles across a log to what looks like another piece of bad news, a magnificent stag lopes into shot, dwarfing Quill from the background, and it idly stoops to drink from a marsh before gingerly wading away, oblivious to the magic it has left behind. 


A majestic few seconds and something that reminded me of when me and my brother, on hard times with soft hearts, saw a deer cross our path in New Zealand which was the tender, divine reassurance I needed at that point in my life.

The combat is fairly generic and the puzzle elements mostly boil down to you moving a rock that was in his way, but it's a beautiful, enchanting world to poke your head into and I was always sad to leave.  Similar then perhaps to The Lost Bear, a 2D platformer again set in the woods, but one that's been infested with man's rust.  You view events from a deliberate distance, sat in the sole chair of a tumbledown theatre as the action takes place on stage, the darkening plot gradually creeping into the theatre before you, the audience, are eventually engulfed by twine and branch.  It was quite unsettling and, again, a game that would be utterly unremarkable if seen on a screen, but because of VR it's a game I can still feel now on the back of my neck eleven months later.

Thumper, rhythm/anxiety simulator set in the level of hell where all the Estate Agents are.
Paper Beast, ethereal landscape puzzler and the closest connection I have ever felt to the natural world.  Breathtaking enormity of the animal kingdom, except they're all made of paper.
Rez Infinite, synesthesia and awe generator.
The superfluous Astro Bot, a platformer so great I can't even begin writing about it.  Suffice to say I watched that little guy run around his exquisitely crafted world with an unbending happiness.  Unmissable joy that is an PSVR exclusive and probably worth the entry alone.  I don't love my children nearly as much as that little metal cunt.

It has genuinely reinvigorated my love for the genre and is how I spend 75% of my gaming time.  Going back to flatscreen gaming, regardless of the game in question, feels like such a regressive, remote experience now.  It is also, due to the pando, a welcome transportive remove from the crushing reality of reality. 

Due diligence demands I mention that the Move wands, really designed for preteens or drunk divorcees to hold while playing Just Dance 2015, aren't nearly as good the Quest's touch controllers and the resolution isn't as good as high end PCVR rigs, as I believe they insist on being called.  No getting away from that, but the immersion makes up for the graphical hit in my opinion and you get used to the Move controllers and soon forget your holding them.  It is also tethered by a cable, although that doesn't particular bother me and its long enough to allow reasonable movement and doesn't ever get in the way.  All that said, it is easily the cheapest (I got mine new two Christmases ago for £170 with two games) and most popular headset on the market (online lobbies busier than the Quest).  The AIM controller (rifle) is also a great if sadly under implemented peripheral.  Add that to boasting VR's best and most diverse library, first party support from Sony and the frequent sales then I reckon it's your best option.  No insidious Facebook bollocks either.

I would also be happy to game share with you so you could download my library, keeping the costs down a fair bit. 

In less important news I read about what happened to your boy in another thread I can no longer find.  Hope he's doing alright, must have been awful.

Pinball

This is interesting. They've reached their funding target, and are proven in the sense they have made 3 previous versions of this headset.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/goovis-lite-crystal-clear-personal-3d-cinema#/

I dream of the day when VR headsets have this picture quality! I'm assuming this device can't be used for VR? A damn shame...


Pinball


kryton2.0

Virtual reality annoys me. Sure it looks good, but I was excited about it as teen when I watched Gamesmaster and Tomorrow's world, now it's too little too late. And it's not like you can sit down with a big chong and a relaxing beer to play anything, it's all slash this, stab that, jump forward and fucking collide with the flat-screen.

Ferris

@CastroDiaz

That's very kind (the very helpful and detailed post, the offer, and best wishes for Ferris Jr). He's out of hospital now and although his temperature keeps spiking (which is incredibly stressful and requires active management of the "wake him up at 3.30am to give him more acetominophen then hope like fuck he goes back to sleep" kind), he's basically fine. We watched all the Thomas the tank engine eps narrated by George Carlin in the basement today which was powerful medicine.

My life as a grad student means large purchases are a bit of a pipe dream at the moment, but I still have savings and I'm making like one mad purchase every few months so I reckon this might be the next one.

Pinball

Quote from: kryton2.0 on March 20, 2021, 09:00:15 PM
Virtual reality annoys me. Sure it looks good, but I was excited about it as teen when I watched Gamesmaster and Tomorrow's world, now it's too little too late. And it's not like you can sit down with a big chong and a relaxing beer to play anything, it's all slash this, stab that, jump forward and fucking collide with the flat-screen.
Polybius VR?

https://store.steampowered.com/app/906120/POLYBIUS/