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Virtual Reality

Started by castro diaz, May 16, 2019, 04:31:12 PM

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El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: mobias on January 02, 2021, 06:24:40 PM


I tried one in Sydney. They're great. Its so immersive you really do feel like you're standing in the street there.

Awesome, excited to try it. That's my "holidays" booked for the year...

So the G2 is the best one after the Quest 2, then the Valve Index is the "gold standard"? 1000 quid for the latter though, way more than I'd be willing to pay. 300 for the Quest 2 is right at my budget level so happy to go for that for now.

mobias

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on January 02, 2021, 06:35:21 PM
Awesome, excited to try it. That's my "holidays" booked for the year...

So the G2 is the best one after the Quest 2, then the Valve Index is the "gold standard"? 1000 quid for the latter though, way more than I'd be willing to pay. 300 for the Quest 2 is right at my budget level so happy to go for that for now.

The G2 is a technically better headset than the Quest 2. Noticeably sharper screens, I think they're something like 35% higher resolution. Also the G2 has a wider angle of view. 120 degrees over the Quest 2's 90 degrees. So with the G2 its slightly less like you're seeing the world through a diving mask and that also means there's a larger 'sweet spot' area where the eye perceives things as being in focus. Of course all that means you need quite a beefy PC to power it all. Certainly in flight sim.

Yeah the Valve Index is a beast of a headset I think but from what I've seen and read the gold standard of VR headsets are the Pimax headsets. Particularly the Pimax 8KX. Which has something like 200 degree angle of view and two 4K screens. Its not a beginners headset though and from what I've read you've got to know what you're doing to set it up. They're popular within in the flight sim community although apparently they won't work with Flight Simulator 2020 because it doesn't as yet support headsets with more than a 120 degree angle of view. Obviously you need a total beast of a PC and then some to use a Pimax headset. The full headset set up itself is almost three grand from what I can see.

https://eu.pimax.com/?utm_source=NA_Site&utm_medium=autoredirect&utm_campaign=Geo_Country_Redirect


El Unicornio, mang

I've got a beefy high end gaming laptop so that wouldn't be an issue. The G2 sounds tempting but I think bang for buck the Quest 2 probably a better option for me currently, the extra money I could use for a steering wheel or something. It's going to be a big step up from my Google Cardboard, in any case, haha.

mobias

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on January 02, 2021, 07:40:44 PM
I've got a beefy high end gaming laptop so that wouldn't be an issue. The G2 sounds tempting but I think bang for buck the Quest 2 probably a better option for me currently, the extra money I could use for a steering wheel or something. It's going to be a big step up from my Google Cardboard, in any case, haha.

The Quest 2 is great. Total bargain for what you pay for it. The fact that you can use it as a stand alone headset is a great feature too. Top tip though. If you've got a decent gaming laptop use that for all the gaming processing and stream to the Quest 2 using the virtual desktop app you can get for it. The graphics chips in the headset are good for basic smartphone type games (the headset has smartphone hardware in it) but obviously aren't anywhere near as good as a Nvidia graphics card is going to be. So get your PC to do all the heavy work. You'll need it anyway for loads of VR games on Steam.

You'll need to order a Quest 2 link cable though. Don't get the expensive Oculus one. Any one off Amazon for 20 quid will do. You'll need one to sideload the headset in developer mode using the sidequest software to enable virtual desktop streaming. The ability to do that isn't currently actively flaunted by Facebook for some reason. I guess because its all still in development. To activate it you need go into developer mode and delve into some sub menus. Its actually pretty straightforward though. Streaming is about 20% more efficient than using a link cable. That actually equates to a noticeable performance boost in something like flight simulator. You do see an increase in FPS. Its worth pointing out you do need a 5Ghz wi-fi router for it though.

peanutbutter

is 5GHz enough? I thought you'd need wifi 6 to pull that off okay.


RE: Virtual Desktop? Is there some kinda bullshit where you've to buy it independently for both your PC and headset?

El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: mobias on January 02, 2021, 08:03:53 PM
The Quest 2 is great. Total bargain for what you pay for it. The fact that you can use it as a stand alone headset is a great feature too. Top tip though. If you've got a decent gaming laptop use that for all the gaming processing and stream to the Quest 2 using the virtual desktop app you can get for it. The graphics chips in the headset are good for basic smartphone type games (the headset has smartphone hardware in it) but obviously aren't anywhere near as good as a Nvidia graphics card is going to be. So get your PC to do all the heavy work. You'll need it anyway for loads of VR games on Steam.

You'll need to order a Quest 2 link cable though. Don't get the expensive Oculus one. Any one off Amazon for 20 quid will do. You'll need one to sideload the headset in developer mode using the sidequest software to enable virtual desktop streaming. The ability to do that isn't currently actively flaunted by Facebook for some reason. I guess because its all still in development. To activate it you need go into developer mode and delve into some sub menus. Its actually pretty straightforward though. Streaming is about 20% more efficient than using a link cable. That actually equates to a noticeable performance boost in something like flight simulator. You do see an increase in FPS. Its worth pointing out you do need a 5Ghz wi-fi router for it though.

Thanks for the tips, got a 5Ghz wi-fi router so that's fine. I'll order one of those link cables separately when I order the headset. Got RTX 2080 in my laptop so should be fine for most PC VR games. Sadly can't upgrade to the 3080.

mobias

Quote from: peanutbutter on January 02, 2021, 08:23:59 PM
is 5GHz enough? I thought you'd need wifi 6 to pull that off okay.


RE: Virtual Desktop? Is there some kinda bullshit where you've to buy it independently for both your PC and headset?

Yeah 5 is enough. 6 would be ideal of course.

You've got to buy the virtual desktop app for the headset. Its £12.99 I think. Its free for the PC though.

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on January 02, 2021, 08:29:09 PM
Thanks for the tips, got a 5Ghz wi-fi router so that's fine. I'll order one of those link cables separately when I order the headset. Got RTX 2080 in my laptop so should be fine for most PC VR games. Sadly can't upgrade to the 3080.

From what I can gather at the moment the Nvidia 2000 series cards (and earlier) are actually better for VR than the new RTX 3000 series. The new cards are not currently well optimised for VR. They're just too new I think. I've got a shiny new RTX3080 and I'm pretty much getting the same VR performance in flight sim that someone with a GTX1080ti is getting.


Sonny_Jim

Just wanted to say that as an old Arcade vet, Polybius is fudging amazing.  Yes the novelty has worn off massively, but it's something I still sit down and play for an hour an month, 1 year after purchasing.  Apparently Mooselife is due to come out on PSVR 'soon', the cert process for PSVR is an absolute fucker.

Also on the topic of longevity/fad, Dirt Rally VR with a wheel is great fun.  I've unlocked everything but still go for a spin 2-3 times a week just because it's fun.  Also the online servers are still running, so thumbs up to Codemasters for that.  I did read that EA has just bought them so expect that the servers to be shutdown soon.

EDIT:  Also what with the entire world + dog trying to get a PS5, it's probably a good time to find some cheap PSVR+PS4 combos.

El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: mobias on January 02, 2021, 08:30:11 PM
Yeah 5 is enough. 6 would be ideal of course.

You've got to buy the virtual desktop app for the headset. Its £12.99 I think. Its free for the PC though.

From what I can gather at the moment the Nvidia 2000 series cards (and earlier) are actually better for VR than the new RTX 3000 series. The new cards are not currently well optimised for VR. They're just too new I think. I've got a shiny new RTX3080 and I'm pretty much getting the same VR performance in flight sim that someone with a GTX1080ti is getting.

OK cool. Just checked and my laptop is apparently no.1 on the market for VR gaming, which is nice.

https://www.laptopmag.com/uk/articles/vr-ready-laptops

Went ahead and ordered the Quest 2 from Argos same day delivery so will have it this afternoon to try it. 300 quid, weirdly I'm seeing the same ones selling like hot cakes on ebay for 350+ used, I guess a lot of people not realising they can get them new for less. Or maybe only certain local Argos stores have them in stock? Even Amazon doesn't have any that aren't going for over 400 from the marketplace.

The Virtual Desktop app is actually 15 quid for PC (I think they recently changed it from being free), worth it though.

peanutbutter

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on January 03, 2021, 10:57:06 AM
weirdly I'm seeing the same ones selling like hot cakes on ebay for 350+ used, I guess a lot of people not realising they can get them new for less.
I've seen this happen a few times with things. My best guess is  that they're people who have given up on trying to find it in stock and are just assuming they'll have to pay a slight premium on eBay.


No way am I paying for virtual desktop on both things, I'll look into pirating it instead. Just increase the price you're gonna start into that kind of fuckery...

El Unicornio, mang

Oh, so there's a PC and a headset version separately then. Well I found a crack of the PC one so I'll just use that

mobias

There's two different versions of the Quest 2. The only difference between the cheaper and more expensive version is that one is only 64GB of internal memory whilst the more expensive one has 256GB.
I actually didn't know that until after I paid £399 for the larger memory one and since I'm only going to use it as a PC headset I feel I robbed myself of 100 quid. Mind you the cheaper one is harder to get
hold of by the looks of things. Its the more sought after version.

One thing thats worth mentioning is that you'll want to upgrade the headstrap you get with it for the Elite headstrap sooner rather than later. The out of box head strap is cheap and uncomfortable. You have
wear it way too tight to get a snug fit. Hence my currently irritated and swollen eyes.


El Unicornio, mang

Yeah I was wondering if the ones on ebay selling for 350+ were second hand 256GB models, but they're 64 (like I got).

I heard about the strap issues so will invest in the Elite.

peanutbutter

I think the out of the box one is fine, I will be getting the elite but like... if they had figured out a way to make the controllers shrink down or something along with the default strap the whole thing would be absurdly portable.
Will be getting the Elite Strap though. My goal is to just have the headset right beside my desk and do 30 minutes directly after work each day to create some kind of mental divide between work and leisure and the initial tweaking of the current strap is enough to make that a bit more of a chore than I'd like.

Anyone buying the Quest without a PC powerful enough to link up to would be better getting the 256GB one I suspect, 64GB is not gonna be enough for how big the games are likely to get in the next 12-18 months. I can't see me ever needing more the 64GB (assuming this guy lasts me 2 years).


RE: Sony and VR, from what I gather they've made a few good VR games themselves, if they're thinking of bailing on VR is there any chance those will hit PC?

mobias

The thing about the head strap is a VR headset should fit on like well fitted comfortable helmet rather than like a diving mask or ski goggles. I guess the problem is for keep fit apps and games where you
need to fling yourself around the room you do need the headset to fit tightly and more like a pair of goggles. For sitting down and playing something like flight simulator I want the comfy helmet approach.

Quote from: peanutbutter on January 03, 2021, 01:27:20 PM

RE: Sony and VR, from what I gather they've made a few good VR games themselves, if they're thinking of bailing on VR is there any chance those will hit PC?

I don't think Sony have said anything definitive about what they're doing with the Playstation VR system but the fact that its not been promoted along with the PS5
the way it was with the PS4 Pro is making people assume they're done with it. It never sold well. I reckon the Quest 2 is a game changer though. People are going to realise that stand alone
headsets are the way into making VR a mass market product. Especially at the moment. The pandemic has really worked in VR's favour. 


peanutbutter

Quote from: mobias on January 03, 2021, 01:55:51 PM
reckon the Quest 2 is a game changer though. People are going to realise that stand alone
headsets are the way into making VR a mass market product
It's somewhat anecdotal but I've seen more than enough accounts of non-gaming types being hugely into Beat Saber that suggests it's really at the cusp of being in a price range of having that kind of Wii Sports mass appeal.

That being said, initial onboarding is def an issue, I gave away my old headset to someone who would absolutely fucking love the likes of Beat Saber and the Thrill of the Fight but they haven't even bothered setting it up yet. The whole Oculus app connection thing is a bizarre layer of obfuscation, I'd have to assume one of the less insidious reasons for the facebook integration is to try and resolve the shitshow that is everything around the apps and stores.

mobias

It pretty obvious VR is going to the next 'big thing' in tech. I'm surprised Apple have been so late to the game but maybe they'll release something along the lines of what the original iPhone
did for the mobile phone market.

https://www.laptopmag.com/uk/news/apple-vr-headset-rumors-release-date-price-specs-and-what-we-want#:~:text=The%20Apple%20VR%20headset%20is,a%20sleeker%20headset%20in%202023.

peanutbutter

Apple have included a lidar sensor in the iPhone 12 Pro and the new M1 processors (which are presumably pretty conservative as a first run of their ARM system) seem to meet base VR GPU performance requirements. They're definitely working towards AR/VR but are laying out the core hardware groundwork first.

gmoney

The Bigscreen app is a lot of fun. People put on films in a virtual cinema. You can put on your own public or private rooms. I just watched the last 40 minutes of Dial M For Murder 3D sat next to a bloke in a viking helmet.

We should do a screening of something.

El Unicornio, mang

Just played some Half Life: Alyx on it. Wow, absolutely incredible. Running at over 60fps on high via wifi so really smooth. I see what people mean about it feeling like you're looking through a diving mask, although it kind of fits with the post-apocalyptic setting. Seeing my floating hands respond just as my own hands are (more or less) is such a bizarre feeling, but also feels oddly natural. Also did a walk around NYC during a snow storm via the YouTube 360 thing, brilliant. Even just the simple ones like a tranquil beach scene are nice for relaxing/escaping. Definitely feel cut off from the real world.

Felt so futuristic doing all this, like someone in a 90s movie about the future when the tech seemed outrageous. I have to take a rest from it every now and again though, definitely can't see myself spending hours on end immersed in VR.

Dirt Rally 2.0 is a fiver on steam through tomorrow so I'm looking forward to having a go on that when it downloads (107GB!)

mobias

#110
Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on January 03, 2021, 07:45:12 PM
Just played some Half Life: Alyx on it. Wow, absolutely incredible. Running at over 60fps on high via wifi so really smooth. I see what people mean about it feeling like you're looking through a diving mask, although it kind of fits with the post-apocalyptic setting. Seeing my floating hands respond just as my own hands are (more or less) is such a bizarre feeling, but also feels oddly natural. Also did a walk around NYC during a snow storm via the YouTube 360 thing, brilliant. Even just the simple ones like a tranquil beach scene are nice for relaxing/escaping. Definitely feel cut off from the real world.

Felt so futuristic doing all this, like someone in a 90s movie about the future when the tech seemed outrageous. I have to take a rest from it every now and again though, definitely can't see myself spending hours on end immersed in VR.

Dirt Rally 2.0 is a fiver on steam through tomorrow so I'm looking forward to having a go on that when it downloads (107GB!)

Flight sim is a total must now you've got your headset. Be warned though setting up the Quest 2 is a bit of a nightmare. However there are a lot of useful guides out there. This one being the best. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SDWF-nsee8&t=1165s Follow that to the letter and it should hopefully be hassle free for you.

You'll find motion sickness is a very real issue in flight sim but you do get used to it. It made me really nauseas to begin with but now I can do loop the loops in a fast jet no problem at all.


Quote from: gmoney on January 03, 2021, 07:32:38 PM

We should do a screening of something.

Totally up for a trip to the virtual cinema sometime. No heavy petting up at the back though.

El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: mobias on January 03, 2021, 08:25:44 PM
Flight sim is a total must now you've got your headset. Be warned though setting up the Quest 2 is a bit of a nightmare. However there are a lot of useful guides out there. This one being the best. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SDWF-nsee8&t=1165s Follow that to the letter and it should hopefully be hassle free for you.

You'll find motion sickness is a very real issue in flight sim but you do get used to it. It made me really nauseas to begin with but now I can do loop the loops in a fast jet no problem at all.


Cool, thanks for the link. Already did quite a bit of finagling to get the sidequest, virtual desktop, steam vr and all that stuff running for Alyx. Will get on setting up MFS asap.

I had a quick go on a free rollercoaster app and had to stop as I was getting motion sickness, so definitely will be wary of that with MFS.

I like the virtual environment thing on the main screen, was switching through them and wandering around them as far as my guardian boundary would allow. Wish I had a room big/empty enough to explore them fully and experiment with using real furniture to mimic whatever is in the scene. Will definitely try to do it in the back garden when the weather's warmer.

mobias

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on January 03, 2021, 08:51:35 PM

I had a quick go on a free rollercoaster app and had to stop as I was getting motion sickness, so definitely will be wary of that with MFS.

I like the virtual environment thing on the main screen, was switching through them and wandering around them as far as my guardian boundary would allow. Wish I had a room big/empty enough to explore them fully and experiment with using real furniture to mimic whatever is in the scene. Will definitely try to do it in the back garden when the weather's warmer.

Flight sim feels well weird to begin with. It really is so immersive you get vertigo looking out the window and you really feel your stomach go when you bank the plane. Its quite fascinating really because your eyes are telling your that your body is moving high up in aeroplane but your other senses are well aware that you're actually sitting at your desk at home or wherever. Its very strange to begin with. Whats interesting though is how quickly you get used to it. Like your brain learns very quickly what this new sensory overload is all about. Like I said I don't get sick or feel my stomach go at all now. I just wish it looked and performed as well as it does on a standard monitor.

El Unicornio, mang

Yeah there's definitely some aspects of VR which feel very weird. I tried a running one but the problem is that when you're running on the spot but moving forward (in the game) you end up running backwards (or it feels like you're running backwards). It's a very strange, uncomfortable sensation, I had to stop or I would have done myself an injury. Might have to stick to Wii Sports for my virtual jogging needs...

peanutbutter

Two that look really cool to me in terms of space perception and movement are Lone Echo (no gravity so you just push yourself off things to move) and Tea For God (which seems more like a tech demo and is maybe best experienced without reading what it does, but it'd be good to play with as large of a room area as you can manage, I reckon).

I've read loads that say having a fan pointed at you does a lot to reduce motion sickness by keeping your body grounded.

mobias

Quote from: peanutbutter on January 03, 2021, 10:06:02 PM

I've read loads that say having a fan pointed at you does a lot to reduce motion sickness by keeping your body grounded.

Funnily enough I was just thinking that it would be really immersive to have a powerful fan pointing at you if you were flying in an open top bi-plane in flight sim.

My top experience in VR so far is buzzing around the Swiss alps in FS2020 in this thing https://orbxdirect.com/product/indiafoxtecho-mb339-msfs

Its really quite mind blowing fun. I would say for flight sim some sort of HOTAS is a worthwhile investment for VR.

El Unicornio, mang

#116
Definitely hoping motion sickness eases, I played Dirt Rally 2.0 last night and genuinely felt like I'd been on rough seas all day after about 5 minutes. Itching to get on Flight Simulator, I have to reinstall it as the pirate copy I had didn't have Bing Maps after update 1, not sure I can afford the 60 quid right now on top of this.

Had a go on Google Earth (available through Oculus Link and also Steam VR, they're identical so no issues doing it wirelessly with the latter) which is magnificent, felt like Godzilla going through all these cities, and then it's easy to get down to the street view stuff to go on virtual walks. Walked up and down my own street first, natch.

Also played Pavlov VR, first person shooter which is free on SideQuest, worth checking out. Just the feeling of actually physically moving and shooting (within my guardian boundaries) and doing the real actions like pulling out magazines and cocking chambers is a treat. And it can by played online/multiplayer so really like a virtual paintball session.

mobias

Motion sickness definitely eases off. Once you get flight sim just do it for a little flight each day and you soon get used to it. First time I had a shot in a fast jet in it I really had to go and lie down
after about a minute of flying. Now I've just been zipping around over the Scottish highlands in a Eurofighter Typhoon at 750kts. My stomach didn't turn once. One thing I've noticed which is a very weird feeling
and slightly odd reaction is that with flying up high in the sim, especially gaining altitude quickly, my ears try and pop. Its a really strange reaction to just how immersive it is.

Another top tip is that you can turn the guardian boundaries off. Its great in flight sim. If you've got a big enough space in whatever room you're playing you can go for a walk out the wing of your
aircraft or go for a walk round and under it. Its quite amazing. If you had a garden and strong enough wi-fi you could go for a fair old walk in the simulator.

El Unicornio, mang

OK, that's good to know, I could still enjoy the thing without sickness inducing games but really want to be able to play them too. I'll just ease myself in from now on.

The wifi is strong, 100 Mbps usually and it's upstairs at completely the opposite side of the house to where I usually am, so if I bring it down to the back room it should be fine for the back garden. Worth a try anyway. Although I'll have to be mindful of my cat getting in the way, as she likes to do, she's hefty enough to trip me up.

Sonny_Jim

Quote from: mobias on January 04, 2021, 04:02:46 PM
One thing I've noticed which is a very weird feeling
and slightly odd reaction is that with flying up high in the sim, especially gaining altitude quickly, my ears try and pop. Its a really strange reaction to just how immersive it is.
If I had to guess, it probably uses a psychosomatic trick of changing the audio (cutting the high end) to simulate your eardrums being under pressure.