Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 28, 2024, 08:20:53 PM

Login with username, password and session length

When singers decide to start singing with a different voice for some reason

Started by Clownbaby, May 30, 2019, 07:39:56 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Bennett Brauer

Quote from: Clownbaby on June 01, 2019, 12:07:39 AM
Putting on a Bowie accent as well is a bit suspish though. Developing a similar tone to another artist over time is one thing but a sudden, very affected sounding knock-off Bowie accent coming out of nowhere from a singer who never had any prior Bowie vibes in their singing feels more to me like a conscious stylistic choice and I'm not keen.

Crappy singers trying to be Bowie have ruined Hazel O'Connor a lot of music, and I warmed to Julian Cope when he said something similar in one of his autobiographies. Although they've both looked a bit like Nazis in their time which I reckon is well out of order.

Clownbaby

What annoys me the most is that I don't think Josh Homme is a crappy singer so the mimicry of other voices is even more pointless

Twit 2

Quote from: TwinPeaks on May 31, 2019, 02:13:33 AM
I love Red House Painters but I've barely delved into his newer stuff. I think it is because of that weird affected drawl he's got now. It's silly though because they do sound like beautiful songs.

Tiny Cities and Ghosts of the Great Highway are probably his most accessible and melodic. I really love April, too.

non capisco

While we're on Bowie his voice changed fairly dramatically in the mid 70s and my theory is that the reckless amount of chisel he was shoving up his bracket shagged his voice a bit and forced him to develop more of a baritone. He never really revisited that camp bratty high register voice he uses on the Ziggy material and adjacent stuff like 'Queen Bitch' after 1975 and always sang 'Life On Mars' in a much lower key in later years.

mrClaypole

Quote from: Brundle-Fly on June 01, 2019, 12:06:42 AM
Really? I feel they're all far more relaxed on stage now, but yes, Carl did give an edge. A bit like Neville Staples from The Specials is missed too.

Also don't forget, they're not getting any younger.

Relaxed to the point of (my) boredom.  Seen them 3 times without Chas now.  No more..

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Bennett Brauer on May 31, 2019, 11:51:20 PM
I think it was Johnny Vaughan who said Elton John's latter-career voice made him sound like a pub singer. (Might even have been before Vic & Bob on Shooting Stars actually.)

I mean, this isn't bad as such, it's not as if he's out of tune or anything, but if you were inclined to perform an Elton parody this is the pub singer voice you'd adopt. He was always quite an affected singer, but all that latter-day "Awwww tonieghrt unn the boulevarrad" gubbins makes his imperial phase vocals sound like masterclasses in subtlety.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Wdjy9A6CM

I'm not having a go at the bloke for getting old, but a song as beautiful as Tiny Dancer doesn't really benefit from being bellowed.

chocky909

Quote from: non capisco on June 01, 2019, 01:17:38 AM
While we're on Bowie his voice changed fairly dramatically in the mid 70s and my theory is that the reckless amount of chisel he was shoving up his bracket shagged his voice a bit and forced him to develop more of a baritone. He never really revisited that camp bratty high register voice he uses on the Ziggy material and adjacent stuff like 'Queen Bitch' after 1975 and always sang 'Life On Mars' in a much lower key in later years.

I could be wrong but I thought it was common knowledge that his singing style (from the throat) was going to fuck his voice up permanently so he got retrained to sing from his chest or whatever that technique is called. Same reason Adele keeps losing her voice on tour - you get polyps or something when you strain your vocal cords.

Bennett Brauer

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on June 01, 2019, 01:30:53 AM
I mean, this isn't bad as such, it's not as if he's out of tune or anything, but if you were inclined to perform an Elton parody this is the pub singer voice you'd adopt. He was always quite an affected singer, but all that latter-day "Awwww tonieghrt unn the boulevarrad" gubbins makes his imperial phase vocals sound like masterclasses in subtlety.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Wdjy9A6CM

I'm not having a go at the bloke for getting old, but a song as beautiful as Tiny Dancer doesn't really benefit from being bellowed.

I'm hanging on to the eight 1970-78 albums I have because they're essential, but the vocals can't be replicated decades later.

You say "imperial phase", which I take it is more or less the 1970s, the same as so many seminal artists [David Hepworth writes]... there must have been so many incidences of singers finally copping to the fact that they couldn't do it any longer in the same key, all around the same time.

Listen to the way Fleetwood Mac had to change the key and Stevie Nicks drop her voice to perform Dreams now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eam8HmS7PiQ. I still like it, but it's lost a lot of the nuance and vulnerability that made it so lovely on the album.

Jockice

One reason I've never been able to take Japan seriously (despite their often excellent music) is David Sylvian's voice. He is so obviously trying to sound like Bryan Ferry, with those horrible 'mannered' vocals, which also (along with Ferry being a creepy-looking Tory tosser) ruined Roxy Music for me. I'm sure nobody sings like that naturally.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

What's wrong with being sexy singing unnaturally if the sound you make is good and unique? A moot point if you think the likes of Bryan Ferry sound dreadful, but that weird artifice is part of the appeal of Roxy Music.

Jockice

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on June 01, 2019, 08:36:09 AM
What's wrong with being sexy singing unnaturally if the sound you make is good and unique? A moot point if you think the likes of Bryan Ferry sound dreadful, but that weird artifice is part of the appeal of Roxy Music.

But, as I'm sure I've mentioned many times before, Ferry has always struck me as one of the creepiest blokes on earth. Part his looks, part his voice, part the way he moves on stage. Since first seeing him on TV (I must have been about seven or eight at the time) he's always actually made me feel queasy. This is long before I knew about his political views, foxhunting sons etc.

I can listen to the odd Roxy Music song and sort of appreciate it, but my dislike of Ferry is so entrenched and so long-lasting that I could never ever be a fan.

I once had a conversation about this with my sister (who used to fancy him) and she says that Dave Grohl has the same effect on her. So now you know.

TheMonk

I saw Paul Young a few years ago and he's decided to start singing with the voice of a drunken hobo with the flu.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Jockice on June 01, 2019, 09:12:14 AM
But, as I'm sure I've mentioned many times before, Ferry has always struck me as one of the creepiest blokes on earth. Part his looks, part his voice, part the way he moves on stage. Since first seeing him on TV (I must have been about seven or eight at the time) he's always actually made me feel queasy. This is long before I knew about his political views, foxhunting sons etc.

I can listen to the odd Roxy Music song and sort of appreciate it, but my dislike of Ferry is so entrenched and so long-lasting that I could never ever be a fan.

This is how I feel about Elvis Costello, so I do understand. Costello, as far as I'm aware, is a nice, liberal sort who would never knowingly kill a fox or evict a squatter, but his voice makes me feel a bit sick.

Clownbaby

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on June 01, 2019, 08:36:09 AM
What's wrong with being sexy singing unnaturally if the sound you make is good and unique? A moot point if you think the likes of Bryan Ferry sound dreadful, but that weird artifice is part of the appeal of Roxy Music.

Yeah. Bryan Ferry has the right kind of affectation for me

Brundle-Fly

Quote from: mrClaypole on June 01, 2019, 01:23:50 AM
Relaxed to the point of (my) boredom.  Seen them 3 times without Chas now.  No more..

Ah well. I feel like they're at the top their game now as a live act. (except when sometimes a certain member gets too 'refreshed' before the gig) so I guess we'll agree to disagree there. Seeing them with an orchestra at Kenwood soon. Can't wait.

Anyway, singers that change their style.  Elvis Costello, He went all vibrato crazy around the time of She.

non capisco

Oh god, yeah, Elvis Costello's vibrato. I love Elvis Costello but give it a re-he-he-he-hest, ma-ha-ha-ha-ate.

Imagine if he'd stunk up Shipbuilding or his version of My Funny Valentine with his late 90s vibrating antics. He can do restraint, you know, even if he's prone to ignoring the signposts saying "Restraint: This Way", lyrically and vocally.


Clownbaby

Alex Turner fom Arctic Monkeys is another one isn't he. A very obviious and conscious U-turn

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on June 01, 2019, 10:45:08 AM
This is how I feel about Elvis Costello, so I do understand. Costello, as far as I'm aware, is a nice, liberal sort who would never knowingly kill a fox or evict a squatter, but his voice makes me feel a bit sick.

Yeah I feel the same. He's an artist that under any other circumstance I'd probably like but I just cannot abide his honking aberration of a voice.

Dr Rock


PaulTMA

Quote from: non capisco on June 01, 2019, 01:17:38 AM
While we're on Bowie his voice changed fairly dramatically in the mid 70s and my theory is that the reckless amount of chisel he was shoving up his bracket shagged his voice a bit and forced him to develop more of a baritone. He never really revisited that camp bratty high register voice he uses on the Ziggy material and adjacent stuff like 'Queen Bitch' after 1975 and always sang 'Life On Mars' in a much lower key in later years.

What about Never Let Me Down (the song)?  In fact, I'd say he revives that voice a few times on that album.

Phil_A

Quote from: Jockice on June 01, 2019, 09:12:14 AM
But, as I'm sure I've mentioned many times before, Ferry has always struck me as one of the creepiest blokes on earth. Part his looks, part his voice, part the way he moves on stage. Since first seeing him on TV (I must have been about seven or eight at the time) he's always actually made me feel queasy. This is long before I knew about his political views, foxhunting sons etc.

I can listen to the odd Roxy Music song and sort of appreciate it, but my dislike of Ferry is so entrenched and so long-lasting that I could never ever be a fan.

I once had a conversation about this with my sister (who used to fancy him) and she says that Dave Grohl has the same effect on her. So now you know.

I don't know what you mean


mojo filters

Quote from: Twit 2 on June 01, 2019, 01:16:54 AM
Tiny Cities and Ghosts of the Great Highway are probably his most accessible and melodic. I really love April, too.

I agree that Ghosts Of The Great Highway and April are the most accessible of his original Sun Kil Moon work, though I love everything up to Universal Themes - plus the second Jesu collaboration (the first was OK but Justin Broadrick's music has this odd gritty processed sound).

Never been a big Red House Painters fan, though they have a few good tunes. Mark's voice definitely sounds different on their early material, but off the top of my head I'd say his vocals had already changed by Songs For A Blue Guitar and Old Ramon.

I respect Mark for doing his own thing right now, but got sick pretty quick of buying each new album and finding it mostly disappointing. He can obviously still write some great tunes, but he releases so much they are hard to find!

Clownbaby

Quote from: Phil_A on June 01, 2019, 09:57:27 PM
I don't know what you mean



All the eye contact in this video makes me so hilariously uncomfortable. I love it. If I find it funny, I love it

Jockice

Quote from: Brundle-Fly on June 01, 2019, 06:31:58 PM
Ah well. I feel like they're at the top their game now as a live act. (except when sometimes a certain member gets too 'refreshed' before the gig) so I guess we'll agree to disagree there. Seeing them with an orchestra at Kenwood soon. Can't wait.


Which one? My guess is Chris Foreman. He looks the type.

Jockice

Quote from: Phil_A on June 01, 2019, 09:57:27 PM
I don't know what you mean



He shares his birthday with my dad you know. That's literally the only thing I like about him.

jamiefairlie

Bernard Sumner did it twice (at least), once after abandoning the Ian-alike efforts of the Movement era and settling into his more naturalistic, often out of tune but always at least genuine, efforts that epitomised the next few albums, and secondly when he was convinced by some muso cunt that he should learn to sing properly and write songs in his own key (oh and also write 'proper' songs with choruses and so on).

This latter move exemplifies the trap many great artists fall into when they utterly misunderstand what it is that makes special. To hear him now talk about how embarrassing early NO were, with their crazy youthful follies of insisting on playing live on TV, debuting new songs before they were released, changing setlists completely from gig to gig, putting more than 15 seconds of effort into naming songs, and so on. It's so sad, that's what made them special and different and when they turned their back on all that, all that was left was a rather turgid pop band. In retrospect, it seems that the true driving force behind the philosophy of NO (Ian helped play that part in JD days by all accounts) was actually Rob Gretton, rather than the band itself.

mrClaypole

Quote from: Brundle-Fly on June 01, 2019, 06:31:58 PM
Ah well. I feel like they're at the top their game now as a live act. (except when sometimes a certain member gets too 'refreshed' before the gig) so I guess we'll agree to disagree there. Seeing them with an orchestra at Kenwood soon. Can't wait.

Anyway, singers that change their style.  Elvis Costello, He went all vibrato crazy around the time of She.
Ha ha. Suggs or Lee?. I saw Lee in Camden doing a small pub gig. He was quite taken back that I had travelled all the way from Birmingham to see his "ropey revue" so spent the next 30 mins pouring a bottle of brandy down my neck. I still don't know how I got from that pub to Euston station.

daf

Quote from: Brundle-Fly on June 01, 2019, 06:31:58 PM
Anyway, singers that change their style.  Elvis Costello, He went all vibrato crazy around the time of She.

I'd already cooled on him during the over-polished 'Spike' and 'Mighty Like a Rose' albums, and then he put out 'The Juliet Letters'. I didn't think much of that - more like something pretentious Sting would do (but with a frigging lute!) *

I then got back into him via Brutal Youth in 1994 and LOVED that one .  .  . But then he was off again, and nothing after that seemed to catch my ear.

'She' was the final nail in the coffee, and pretty much confirmed that I was actually more of a fan of The Attractions 'sound', rather than Costello himself and his increasingly variable pipe-work.

Didn't bother with anything after that.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
* - I know he started learning how to read music around this time, but did he also take 'classical' singing lessons? If so, this is probably where the rot set in.

mrClaypole

Quote from: daf on June 02, 2019, 01:58:07 PM
I'd already cooled on him during the over-polished 'Spike' and 'Mighty Like a Rose' albums, and then he put out 'The Juliet Letters'. I didn't think much of that - more like something pretentious Sting would do (but with a frigging lute!)

I then got back into him via Brutal Youth in 1994 and LOVED that one .  .  . But then he was off again, and nothing after that seemed to catch my ear.

'She' was the final nail in the coffee, and pretty much confirmed that I was actually more of a fan of The Attractions 'sound', rather than Costello himself and his increasingly variable pipe-work.

Didn't bother with anything after that.
I think youve nailed it for me too. Elvis with the attractions are better than a solo Elvis.
Was glad to hear 13 steps lead down when released,  up until that point I had pretty much given up on him.