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63 Up

Started by Jockice, June 01, 2019, 01:55:15 PM

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phes

56-63 is brutal

Roaring with laughter at Bruce exploding almost overnight like a kernel of Father Christmas shaped popcorn. Totally agree about the East end girls. What a properly great bunch of good eggs. Jackie especially, handing Apted his arse on a plate. Fucking grim about Lynn and her poor family. Great bunch of lads

Peter though, eh. How did the most boring man alive become the most controversial one. I can't wait to definitely absolutely 100% not read his novel


peanutbutter

Quote from: phes on June 05, 2019, 11:25:56 PM
Roaring with laughter at Bruce exploding almost overnight like a kernel of Father Christmas shaped popcorn.
Have literally no clue what this means but it's abruptly became the thing I want to see most in this iteration.

How long was it in total? Will  prolly watch this week, doubt I'll get around to watching 7-56 again beforehand, although I feel like I can remember most of it.

Jockice

Quote from: phes on June 05, 2019, 11:25:56 PM
Peter though, eh. How did the most boring man alive become the most controversial one. I can't wait to definitely absolutely 100% not read his novel

He's left the Labour Party. Wonder why? Might be something to do with his job as a lawyer for the DWP. Or as he put it this time, civil servant.

Jockice

#63
Can I just say I don't like what they've done to the start of the programme. It always used be a version of the original World In Action intro in black and white, with the headshots of some of them saying things like 'My heart's desire is to see my daddy,' and 'I'm going to work in Woolworths,' followed by
This is no ordinary outing to the zoo, it's a very special occasion. We've brought these children together for the very first time. They're just like any other children, except that they come from startlingly different backgrounds. Cue posh John saying: 'Stop that at once!'

I find the new one jarring, especially as it features Suzy, who apparently isn't even in it this time. They should have stuck with what was original and best. But as someone said in an interview about the programme a few days ago, there are always people wanting to change it: 'Hey, why don't we have them filming themselves this time?' Fuck right off!

If they've messed with the ending in the playground, I'll be so upset with it that I might not even cry....

(PS, I'm annoyed that Suzy has refused to participate this time. I like her. I know she hated the programme and tried to bow out several times. But I'd still like to find out about her. Has she just had enough or has there been some family tragedy that has happened? I'd like to know. I have absolutely no right to know but I still would. Symon didn't appear in and wasn't even mentioned in 35 Up you know, because he'd recently got divorced and his mother had died so he refused to participate. Which is fair enough.

the science eel

Wonderful stuff.

I'd have liked more of it, though, I have to say.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Hey, Punk! on June 05, 2019, 12:55:55 PM
I really don't like the aestheticisation of Neil's life, it must have been absolutely fucking miserable. He himself dislikes how his journey has been interpreted as a triumph of the human spirit, he considers himself a failure and I believe that his life may have been a lot worse without Augustus Gloop's help. The poetry is in the depiction of Neil's life, not in the life itself.

Do people interpret Neil's story in that way? If so, they've massively missed the point. As you say, the man himself has never attempted to present himself as anything other than someone whose life has been pretty miserable. Not in a self-pitying way, I should add, he's just very honest.

Sin Agog

Quote from: the science eel on June 06, 2019, 10:08:17 PM
Wonderful stuff.

I'd have liked more of it, though, I have to say.

The montage of old clips must have been utterly essential in the pre-internet days when you'd just go in cold every seven years, perhaps beginning with a later one and never getting an opportunity to see the ones you missed.  I wonder if they shouldn't scale them all the way back now we have so many opportunities to remind ourselves about them on our own.  Give the new footage of them much longer to breathe with the running time instead,

Might all end up a moot point as who knows if there will be any more entries?  (Personally, I think whoever's left to film it will find the 7-to-70 arc too neat to pass up).

studpuppet

Neil gets me every time. I think every programme from 35 onwards I've expected him not to be alive or able to participate in the next. I wonder whether he would be if he didn't feel the responsibility of making it through the next seven years each time.

Sin Agog

#68
Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on June 06, 2019, 10:24:46 PM
Do people interpret Neil's story in that way? If so, they've massively missed the point. As you say, the man himself has never attempted to present himself as anything other than someone whose life has been pretty miserable. Apted hasn't flinched from that view either.

Poetic doesn't necessarily equate to 'pretty' or 'happy' or even 'fulfilled.' A lot of artist types fantasize about the idea of passing up on a family and a happy, sensual life for a glimpse of...who knows what?  It's perhaps silly and misguided, and maybe a life of warm medians is much more favourable to most, but not every brain works that way.

I'd imagine if the guy in this old Caspar David Friedrich painting turned around, his face would look just as craggy and possessed as Neil's.



Christ, that took me about fifteen minutes to work out how to resize an image for a stupid post.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Sin Agog on June 06, 2019, 10:24:49 PM
Might all end up a moot point as who knows if there will be any more entries?  (Personally, I think whoever's left to film it will find the 7-to-70 arc too neat to pass up).

Apted will be 85 in seven years time. He appears to be in good health, so he could still make one final installment if he wanted to. However, if he passes away before 2026, I would imagine that most of the participants wouldn't want to carry on with the project without him.

Lost Oliver

Fucking hell lads, in seven years time we'll all be seven years older. You can't deny it.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Sin Agog on June 06, 2019, 10:35:25 PM
Poetic doesn't necessarily equate to 'pretty' or 'happy' or even 'fulfilled.' A lot of artist types fantasize about the idea of passing up on a family and a happy, sensual life for a glimpse of...who knows what?  It's perhaps silly and misguided, and maybe a life of warm medians is much more favourable to most, but not every brain works that way.

I know that, I was commenting on the disparity between people interpreting Neil's life as a poetic triumph of the human spirit and Neil himself making it quite clear that he doesn't view his life in that way at all. He quite rightly refuses to be sentimentalised or patronised.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Lost Oliver on June 06, 2019, 10:49:21 PM
Fucking hell lads, in seven years time we'll all be seven years older. You can't deny it.

Take comfort from the fact that future generations will always have the vast archive of CaB to keep our spirits alive.

phes

What planet is John living on where inequality has been eradicated in England

Sin Agog

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on June 06, 2019, 10:54:09 PM
I know that, I was commenting on the disparity between people interpreting Neil's life as a poetic triumph of the human spirit and Neil himself making it quite clear that he doesn't view his life in that way at all. He quite rightly refuses to be sentimentalised or patronised.

He did say, somewhat defensively, something similar to my post you quoted after being cornered by Apted.  I wish Apted would stop doing doing that.  Didn't all the other participants call him out on his judgments, but it's still OK with Neil?  It's because of people judging you by how much of a dent you've made on the world that the world is so bloody dented.

peanutbutter

I notice Claire Lewis is getting mentioned a lot this around in terms of publicity for the series, definitely an equal level to Apted. My guess is they've already agreed that if he's not able to do the next one but she is, and she wants to, that they'll do it.

Tbh I think the bigger concern this series has going ahead is that a few of them, or their families (I'm thinking grandkids), are almost certainly going to broadcast some of their life and try to make them into separate things via twitter or youtube. The pretence of it being a seven year gap between updates is hard to maintain.

the science eel

Yeah, but I imagine they want to be left the fuck alone for those seven-year gaps.

It surprises me a little to hear from some of them that it's a stressful experience. It's not like they're followed around all the time.

Jasha

Pleased to see Symon and Paul looking content with life but it annoys me the way they are presented as a pair unlike say Andrew and John or Jackie and Lynn.

ian01604

Quote from: the science eel on June 07, 2019, 02:25:31 PM
Yeah, but I imagine they want to be left the fuck alone for those seven-year gaps.

It surprises me a little to hear from some of them that it's a stressful experience. It's not like they're followed around all the time.
They live with the fact that whenever anything majorally negative happens to them they will be telling Apted, a camera crew and itv viewers about it at some point within the next seven years.

It might work as a positive. I read that Paul's wife claims the doc has kept them together.

As for Symon and Paul being presented as a pair, I'd imagine they got some free flights to and from Australia out of it.

peanutbutter

Just finished the first ep, thought everyone came out of it okay.

Nick's always been one of the more interesting ones, honestly surprised he never got some kind of science tv show offers off the back of his appearances tbh, guy's charismatic and he was pretty attractive when he was younger too. Was pretty sad to see him looking how he did.

Sue's always great, comes across as the kind of character who would keep her whole social circle together and resolve all manner of shit in the workplace with ease too. Can remember finding her position in 28 and 35 Up a bit grim considering how she came across before that, I wonder if someone in the situation she was in at 35 (divorced with two young kids, working part time?) would have a chance of getting things properly on track again now.

Andrew's always been a bit of a bore but he also always seems like an example of someone who benefitted hugely from marrying the right person.

Thought Tony came across well, not so much the Greens thing as just... it's so easy for people to outright dismiss guys like that and I'm sure if you sat down and actively engaged with him and his frustrations, he'd be willing to listen.


Quote from: Jockice on June 01, 2019, 04:24:55 PM
My favourite at that age was the posh girl Suzy. She was cool, cynical and chain-smoking. She's mellowed out since then though, or at least on the bits they show on the telly. But then she was just the type of woman I've always fancied. Usually with disastrous consequences.
Always couldn't stand her, just felt like a bit of an entitled brat who was destined to wind up the vapid wife of some rich guy from similar social standing.
Can't even remember what she wound up doing, was it that? Literally cannot remember a single thing about her past 21 right now beyond a few moans about the show...

Quote from: the science eel on June 07, 2019, 02:25:31 PM
Yeah, but I imagine they want to be left the fuck alone for those seven-year gaps.

It surprises me a little to hear from some of them that it's a stressful experience. It's not like they're followed around all the time.
Exactly! They would want to be left alone, their grandkids mightn't give a shite though.
I mean, if I knew that every seven years I was going to be made assess my life on television it'd probably stress me out a bit some too.

Jockice

Quote from: peanutbutter on June 07, 2019, 06:24:01 PM
Always couldn't stand her, just felt like a bit of an entitled brat who was destined to wind up the vapid wife of some rich guy from similar social standing.
Can't even remember what she wound up doing, was it that? Literally cannot remember a single thing about her past 21 right now beyond a few moans about the show...
Bereavement counselling I believe. What a bitch

peanutbutter

Quote from: Jockice on June 07, 2019, 07:12:34 PM
Bereavement counselling I believe. What a bitch
That's a very posh lady hobby job, though, innit? I've a friend whose a counsellor and she says there's a crazy number of women like that at it.


Edit: I've just checked, she says no to the word hobby but that it's probably not work they need to do to get by

Billy

A few interesting things I've discovered from various Apted interviews:

* 42 Up originally had a segment where all the participants were asked about the death of Princess Diana, which happened just before filming. It was cut out as it was decided that questions on current events weren't right for the film, although 63 Up had plenty of Brexit/Trump questions so perhaps he's changed his mind since.

* John hasn't actually been interviewed by Apted for years, due to a fallout between them after 21 Up (he didn't participate in 28 or 42 Up). The executive producer interviews him and Apted dubs his voice over the questions in post-production.

* Suzy sent him a letter of apology after declining to be in 63 Up, explaining she was having a tough time during filming last year. He mentions she's always been difficult and in the past she's cancelled an hour before they'd show up for filming, although this is the first edition she's missed completely.

* Peter was finally brought back into the show when Apted promised he'd play clips of him singing his music.

* Andrew's the only one out of the participants who insists on seeing his footage before the programme is broadcast, and tells them what they can and can't do.

peanutbutter

Quote from: Billy on June 08, 2019, 12:20:10 PM
* Andrew's the only one out of the participants who insists on seeing his footage before the programme is broadcast, and tells them what they can and can't do.
That's very surprising, I'd've thought a few of them done this. Perhaps explains why Andrew always feels like a disjointed afterthought?


I thought pairing Symon and Paul was pretty good tbh, they're both kind of shy awkward guys and they do seem to get along. Good way to coerce a bit more out of the two of them. Should've maybe spent a bit of time on the two individually too though, Symon's always been a pretty interesting one to me, guy seems like he could be pretty intelligent but obviously has a lot of baggage too.

John continues to be a tiresome bore.

First episode was the strongest imo.




Diana is a good deal less important than those two topics. Like, one is _current_ with no lasting impact, the other is gonna be very much relevant still in 7 years.

sevendaughters

not seen this yet - I very much will do - but I wrote an essay on the construction of aesthetics in the Up series while I was doing my masters. I can't remember what I said exactly but I do feel that Apted has suggested that poetic/loser line of Neil (in an earlier Up, we see Neil walking into a headwind with some comical music overlaid, he looks a bit like something out of Kes or Horace or some northern comic social realist text) but I do think that Neil's characterisation for a while was also the most sympathetic, he was the star for a while and the one Apted hoped most for. currently writing a doctoral thesis on documentary aesthetics as it goes, not that means you can't disagree.

Is there any way to see all the previous series?  Anywhere to "obtain" it?

Jockice

Quote from: tubbsthespidergigolo2 on June 08, 2019, 06:54:20 PM
Is there any way to see all the previous series?  Anywhere to "obtain" it?

They're all on youtube! There was also a box set of DVDs that I bought not long after 56 UP. Or it may be 49 Up. I'll have to try and find it.

Jockice

Quote from: peanutbutter on June 08, 2019, 12:56:03 PM
Symon's always been a pretty interesting one to me, guy seems like he could be pretty intelligent but obviously has a lot of baggage too.


A lot of kids as well. He managed to become a father of five between 21 and 28 UP.

Sin Agog

#88
Which of you scallywags just gave me a shout-out on this Roger Ebert-Michael Apted interview? https://m.youtube.com/watch?lc=z23hfhoyztfzvdlfkacdp435ixlsvbnqexiqhf2ay1hw03c010c&feature=em-comments&v=rGu470P7yfc

That was such a Tony thing to do.